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Post by vbvalley on Apr 28, 2014 11:51:11 GMT -5
Hopefully, this will be the last year that Gulf Shores, Alabama will be hosting the AVCA Sand Volleyball National Championship. The NCAA is at least one more year of approving the sport for an actual NCAA Championship, so the AVCA, which has done a very good job these initial years, will dictate the venue. With sites like Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, Huntington Beach, San Diego on the West Coast and Florida sites like Clearwater, St. Petes, or the Miami area, it seems counter productive to have it in Alabama. Although it is supposed to be a neutral site (it actual favors Florida St.), it is tough to get to and is not known as a beach volleyball mecca. Having the championships in either SoCal or Florida will bring out much larger crowds and also the local press. Please AVCA, for the good of this new sport, let's go to a major beach volleyball location. I hope there is not some multi-year contract that the AVCA has signed for 2015 keeping it there.
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Post by trollhunter on Apr 28, 2014 14:53:37 GMT -5
AVCA accepts bids for the event and was mostly concerned with cost since NCAA is not yet paying for championship. Not a nuetral site.
You need to direct your plea to local event organizers, not to AVCA.
My guess is that NCAA will eventually be accepting bids from schools like they do for other Olympic sports. Schools with 5+ courts on campus like Florida state will be likely hosts.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 28, 2014 14:58:30 GMT -5
Hopefully, this will be the last year that Gulf Shores, Alabama will be hosting the AVCA Sand Volleyball National Championship. The NCAA is at least one more year of approving the sport for an actual NCAA Championship, so the AVCA, which has done a very good job these initial years, will dictate the venue. With sites like Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, Huntington Beach, San Diego on the West Coast and Florida sites like Clearwater, St. Petes, or the Miami area, it seems counter productive to have it in Alabama. Although it is supposed to be a neutral site (it actual favors Florida St.), it is tough to get to and is not known as a beach volleyball mecca. Having the championships in either SoCal or Florida will bring out much larger crowds and also the local press. Please AVCA, for the good of this new sport, let's go to a major beach volleyball location. I hope there is not some multi-year contract that the AVCA has signed for 2015 keeping it there. Why is it counterproductive? Some of your points make sense but some are simply wrong. In terms of getting local press, where is it going to be easier? Alabama where there is very little going on, or Los Angeles? To say Alabama is not a neutral site while advocating SoCal and Florida is also silly The crowd argument is also speculative. Some of the biggest beach volleyball crowds ever have been in places like Milwaukee and Ohio, whereas there have been tournaments in SoCal and Florida where a large family deciding to attend could have double the number of spectators |
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Post by klazk on Apr 28, 2014 15:01:55 GMT -5
The crowd argument is also speculative. Some of the biggest beach volleyball crowds ever have been in places like Milwaukee and Ohio, whereas there have been tournaments in SoCal and Florida where a large family deciding to attend could have double the number of spectators To guest2's point about the crowd, see Geddy's comment from last year's championships: volleytalk.proboards.com/post/994795/thread |
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Apr 28, 2014 15:29:27 GMT -5
The crowd argument is also speculative. Some of the biggest beach volleyball crowds ever have been in places like Milwaukee and Ohio, whereas there have been tournaments in SoCal and Florida where a large family deciding to attend could have double the number of spectators To guest2's point about the crowd, see Geddy's comment from last year's championships: volleytalk.net/post/994795/threadTo me, there is one drawback to Gulf Shores: Travel for anyone not in the Southeast. It's not completely terrible, but does require layovers. The weather can be unpredictable, as well. But the venue is really good. I'll be heading out there in a few days. At the same time, I'd love to see it rotated and hope that it does. Selfishly speaking, I'd like to see it in Hermosa or the Annenberg at Santa Monica. |
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Post by vbvalley on Apr 28, 2014 16:11:05 GMT -5
Having the finals in Alabama is counterproductive because it does little to promote the sport nationally. The LA Times typically has a piece on whatever NCAA championship is being hosted locally. There is usually some chatter on the local television news regarding these events as well as some mention on the local sports talk shows. To compare the Mobile newspapers to the LA Times (which is read throughout the country)or the Florida press is a real tough sell. You should see what happens when the AVP or FIVA comes to SoCal.
As far as crowds go, the NCAA Men's Volleyball Finals two years ago at USC's Galen had over 10,000 in attendance. Manhattan Beach, Hermosa and Huntington Beach are packed for AVP events. I am not comparing an indoor final with the beach, just that there are a lot more volleyball fans on the West Coast or Florida than in Alabama, especially the first week in May. I never compared the obvious regarding a neutral site, only to say that Alabama does favor Florida St. which is about a three-four hour drive and I would imagine that of the fans that do show up, Florida St. will have the most support. Alternating from the West Coast and Florida would be a fair compromise.
Comparing a highly promoted summer AVP event in a major population city like Cincinnati or Milwaukee with a collegiate women's tournament outside of Mobile, Alabama the first week in May? Really?
I did check Giddy's remarks about Gulf Shores being a nice place and I would imagine that it is a popular summer vacation spot for people living in the deep South, but I did not see anything regarding the number of attendees. I did just check to see in the AVCA website if they had any estimates of the crowd last year besides the few hundred or so I remembered from the CBS Sports Cable broadcast. There were more spectators this year in Waikiki and at USC watching just four teams play than what I observed on television last year for the finals. Unfortunately, I also saw that the AVCA plans to have the 2015 championship again in Alabama. So, this blog appears to be just a mute point. Too bad, it would have been fun to have been one of many to watch the girls play here in ScCal (or Florida). Must have been a heck of a deal that the AVCA made with Gulf Shores. I just hope that the NCAA does not get the same idea in a few years....
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Post by coachl on Apr 28, 2014 18:04:03 GMT -5
Having the finals in Alabama is counterproductive because it does little to promote the sport nationally. The LA Times typically has a piece on whatever NCAA championship is being hosted locally. There is usually some chatter on the local television news regarding these events as well as some mention on the local sports talk shows. To compare the Mobile newspapers to the LA Times (which is read throughout the country)or the Florida press is a real tough sell. You should see what happens when the AVP or FIVA comes to SoCal. As far as crowds go, the NCAA Men's Volleyball Finals two years ago at USC's Galen had over 10,000 in attendance. Manhattan Beach, Hermosa and Huntington Beach are packed for AVP events. I am not comparing an indoor final with the beach, just that there are a lot more volleyball fans on the West Coast or Florida than in Alabama, especially the first week in May. I never compared the obvious regarding a neutral site, only to say that Alabama does favor Florida St. which is about a three-four hour drive and I would imagine that of the fans that do show up, Florida St. will have the most support. Alternating from the West Coast and Florida would be a fair compromise. Comparing a highly promoted summer AVP event in a major population city like Cincinnati or Milwaukee with a collegiate women's tournament outside of Mobile, Alabama the first week in May? Really? I did check Giddy's remarks about Gulf Shores being a nice place and I would imagine that it is a popular summer vacation spot for people living in the deep South, but I did not see anything regarding the number of attendees. I did just check to see in the AVCA website if they had any estimates of the crowd last year besides the few hundred or so I remembered from the CBS Sports Cable broadcast. There were more spectators this year in Waikiki and at USC watching just four teams play than what I observed on television last year for the finals. Unfortunately, I also saw that the AVCA plans to have the 2015 championship again in Alabama. So, this blog appears to be just a mute point. Too bad, it would have been fun to have been one of many to watch the girls play here in ScCal (or Florida). Must have been a heck of a deal that the AVCA made with Gulf Shores. I just hope that the NCAA does not get the same idea in a few years.... You clearly have never been to Gulf Shores (maybe not the Southeast either), because if you had you would see that it is a great beach town, an awesome set up for the event and the best sand you can find anywhere in the US. I don't know how having the championship in SoCal would promote the sport outside of that area--I see what you are saying about newspapers but that is your only valid argument. If you look at a map you will see that Gulf Shores is relatively centrally located to the country. You can fly to either Pensacola or Mobile to get there. If you want to complain about layovers, don't advocate for Florida State as Tallahassee is a small airport and is expensive. I suppose they could do it in South Florida, but again, look at a map and you will see that is way less centrally located. Regarding cost, early May in Gulf Shores is nice but not the peak season (which is spring break or summer), so accommodations are inexpensive and traffic isn't too bad. I know there is a storm approaching in the next day or two but it should clear out before the tournament and the highs are in the 70's, sounds pretty good to me. The whole gulf coast is one of the best kept secrets, and a nice vacation spot for people all over the south and beyond and not just the "deep south" . I encourage you either to visit or stop complaining because you are wrong!!! |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 28, 2014 18:28:07 GMT -5
Having the finals in Alabama is counterproductive because it does little to promote the sport nationally. The LA Times typically has a piece on whatever NCAA championship is being hosted locally. There is usually some chatter on the local television news regarding these events as well as some mention on the local sports talk shows. To compare the Mobile newspapers to the LA Times (which is read throughout the country)or the Florida press is a real tough sell. You should see what happens when the AVP or FIVA comes to SoCal. As far as crowds go, the NCAA Men's Volleyball Finals two years ago at USC's Galen had over 10,000 in attendance. Manhattan Beach, Hermosa and Huntington Beach are packed for AVP events. I am not comparing an indoor final with the beach, just that there are a lot more volleyball fans on the West Coast or Florida than in Alabama, especially the first week in May. I never compared the obvious regarding a neutral site, only to say that Alabama does favor Florida St. which is about a three-four hour drive and I would imagine that of the fans that do show up, Florida St. will have the most support. Alternating from the West Coast and Florida would be a fair compromise. Comparing a highly promoted summer AVP event in a major population city like Cincinnati or Milwaukee with a collegiate women's tournament outside of Mobile, Alabama the first week in May? Really? I did check Giddy's remarks about Gulf Shores being a nice place and I would imagine that it is a popular summer vacation spot for people living in the deep South, but I did not see anything regarding the number of attendees. I did just check to see in the AVCA website if they had any estimates of the crowd last year besides the few hundred or so I remembered from the CBS Sports Cable broadcast. There were more spectators this year in Waikiki and at USC watching just four teams play than what I observed on television last year for the finals. Unfortunately, I also saw that the AVCA plans to have the 2015 championship again in Alabama. So, this blog appears to be just a mute point. Too bad, it would have been fun to have been one of many to watch the girls play here in ScCal (or Florida). Must have been a heck of a deal that the AVCA made with Gulf Shores. I just hope that the NCAA does not get the same idea in a few years.... The LA Times is not a national newspaper by any stretch of the imagination. The game is not growing because somebody in Kansas City picks up the LA Times and sees a notice on women's college beach. I think there are differing views of how to promote the sport. The way you seem to be advocating is by having the finals in a place where the game is already very popular and that has value. It also has value to go to a starving market where there are very few entertainment options and new fans can easily be created. You know why there are half a dozen circuses in this country when none of them can compare to Ringling Brothers? Because the others tour smaller cities and towns that have no entertainment. Beach volleyball can, and has, taken advantage of that dynamic in the past and building in a place like Mobile is a great way to do that. You know why fans come out to Hawaii matches but dont at Penn State? Because Hawaii doesnt have other sports. Its why a place like Sacramento (at least when the team was good) had an atmosphere for basketball that LA couldnt match. These championships can be an annual event in Alabama, something people look forward to, in a way they will never be in LA and in the long run that is going to grow the game more than anything. Also as long as Title IX exists women's beach will continue to grow. |
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Post by vbvalley on Apr 28, 2014 19:16:22 GMT -5
I have been to almost every state in the union and my daughter played D1 Volleyball in Louisiana. I also carried a SoCal beach rating for almost twenty years and have played in opens at Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, State, etc. so I think I know a little bit about the sport (my daughter now plays Sand Volleyball at a West Coast school). This argument is not about how nice Gulf Shores is; I am sure it is lovely there. This has to do about promoting sand volleyball and attendance and national attention. This blog has nothing to do with how nice Gulf Shores is. You strengthen my case regarding how difficult it is to get there, especially on fairly short notice and the fact that it is one of the "best kept secrets" validates my argument.
It sounds like you are unfamiliar with volleyball in Southern California where, from Santa Monica to Redondo Beach, there seems to always be games year round, especially on the weekends (and I have not even gotten into Orange County). Crowds for AVP tournaments are huge and even the local new sand volleyball matches between colleges are getting nice crowds up at Zuma, Annenberg, and USC.
By the way, flights from LAX to Mobile start at $1100 round trip leaving this Thursday and coming home Sunday. It is about $750 for a round trip ticket from LAX to Miami. Do you really think that the attendance this weekend would be comparable to having out in SoCal or Florida?
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Post by coachl on Apr 28, 2014 19:53:37 GMT -5
I have been to almost every state in the union and my daughter played D1 Volleyball in Louisiana. I also carried a SoCal beach rating for almost twenty years and have played in opens at Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, State, etc. so I think I know a little bit about the sport (my daughter now plays Sand Volleyball at a West Coast school). This argument is not about how nice Gulf Shores is; I am sure it is lovely there. This has to do about promoting sand volleyball and attendance and national attention. This blog has nothing to do with how nice Gulf Shores is. You strengthen my case regarding how difficult it is to get there, especially on fairly short notice and the fact that it is one of the "best kept secrets" validates my argument. It sounds like you are unfamiliar with volleyball in Southern California where, from Santa Monica to Redondo Beach, there seems to always be games year round, especially on the weekends (and I have not even gotten into Orange County). Crowds for AVP tournaments are huge and even the local new sand volleyball matches between colleges are getting nice crowds up at Zuma, Annenberg, and USC. By the way, flights from LAX to Mobile start at $1100 round trip leaving this Thursday and coming home Sunday. It is about $750 for a round trip ticket from LAX to Miami. Do you really think that the attendance this weekend would be comparable to having out in SoCal or Florida? I'm sorry that the AVCA sand volleyball championships are not in the center of the universe, LA. They have been planned in the other LA for years...so next year get your flights earlier!!! |
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Post by guest2 on Apr 28, 2014 19:55:29 GMT -5
I got 857 when I searched but that was two stops.
I am not entirely unfamiliar with SoCal volleyball. I lived in Santa Monica for 8 months and Mission Beach for a year, but I wouldnt call myself an expert. The question I would ask is how does holding it in SoCal grow the game. Who in say Hermosa, hasnt been exposed to top level volleyball in the past? What new fans are made if its held in Manhattan Beach?
In Alabama, even if there are a lot fewer fans there, you can be sure you will have massively more first time fans, and if you believe in the product that means you will be creating new fans.
Why would it be short notice anyway? Hasnt this been scheduled for a while? (I dont really follow women's college but it seems unlikely it would be set less than say a month in advance, and more than that for airline tickets doesnt mean much).
Plus the majority of fans at an event like this arent travelling long distances to get there, they will be local people who attend, just as there would be in LA
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Apr 28, 2014 20:16:58 GMT -5
Hmm. I'm certainly very, very familiar with the SoCal beach scene (which in no way makes me some kind of final authority, but I would call my guesses educated ones), and I don't necessarily think a SoCal championship would draw much larger crowds than I saw in Gulf Shores. As long as USC, Pepp, and LBSU were in the mix you might get some additional students in the stands, I would think, but how many? And the locals would stop by on their jog/skate/brunch at Good Stuff (but not the Poop Deck any more. RIP) to watch for a few minutes, but I don't know if there would really be any widespread interest. It's a jaded bunch down here - bring in Kerri, Phil, Rosie, April? Sure, you'll get a crowd. Otherwise? I dunno.
There's also a cost component. Holding a major event in Hermosa, Manhattan, Huntington, Annenberg House is going to cost - permit fees, housing teams etc. BTW, the Gulf Shores team puts on a very good event, and one of the reasons why is that they're able to use funds made available by BP to promote tourism in the aftermath of the Gulf oil spill. But I digress.
In my mind, I don't really care that much where the event is held - I'm more interested in getting a better TV deal. Once sand becomes an NCAA sport, I'm hoping it will fall under the umbrella of the NCAA/ESPN contract and show up - live - on ESPNU/ESPN2 or even The Ocho. Bigger and better TV coverage is more important to me than the actual venue when we're talking about promoting the sport.
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Post by crawdaddy on Apr 29, 2014 10:08:17 GMT -5
Geddy is correct - you won't get a big turnout in Hermosa or Manhattan or another So. Cal. beach. You can go down and see better volleyball at a CVBA Open most weekends.
That said, I do think you want to rotate the championship to get exposure for the emerging sport in as many locations as possible.
And RIP Poop Deck.
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Post by volleyballer4life on Apr 29, 2014 12:14:39 GMT -5
I have been to almost every state in the union and my daughter played D1 Volleyball in Louisiana. I also carried a SoCal beach rating for almost twenty years and have played in opens at Manhattan Beach, Hermosa, State, etc. so I think I know a little bit about the sport (my daughter now plays Sand Volleyball at a West Coast school). This argument is not about how nice Gulf Shores is; I am sure it is lovely there. This has to do about promoting sand volleyball and attendance and national attention. This blog has nothing to do with how nice Gulf Shores is. You strengthen my case regarding how difficult it is to get there, especially on fairly short notice and the fact that it is one of the "best kept secrets" validates my argument. It sounds like you are unfamiliar with volleyball in Southern California where, from Santa Monica to Redondo Beach, there seems to always be games year round, especially on the weekends (and I have not even gotten into Orange County). Crowds for AVP tournaments are huge and even the local new sand volleyball matches between colleges are getting nice crowds up at Zuma, Annenberg, and USC. By the way, flights from LAX to Mobile start at $1100 round trip leaving this Thursday and coming home Sunday. It is about $750 for a round trip ticket from LAX to Miami. Do you really think that the attendance this weekend would be comparable to having out in SoCal or Florida? If the goal is attendance, perhaps you are right: If the goal is promoting the sport and gaining "national attention", then having it elsewhere makes more sense. SoCal is the mecca, they have tons of events, so I ask you: How has that worked for gaining national attention for the sport? Can't say I know much about Alabama, but my thought is we need to get more exposure in places outside of the places that the sport is already booming. People in Cali will certainly keep tabs on how things are going in Alabama: Had the event been hosted in SoCal, do you think Alabama would care about it? I love the fact that they coupled it with an HP camp and got kids involved in the event - hopefully that a) grows the sport in other regions, b) gives a little incentive for more schools in the south to jump on the sand bandwagon. Flights may not be cheap, but I imagine the hotels/food/etc have to be much cheaper than it'd be should it have been held in SoCal. Just my two cents, and just happy the sport is growing at the collegiate level! |
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Post by unrated on Apr 30, 2014 13:12:42 GMT -5
IMHO: Kudos to Gulf Shores for running a great event for a fledgling group. I think they should be in the rotation of places where the finals are held.
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