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Post by Deleted on Sept 22, 2014 21:43:06 GMT -5
Ok, let me vent. Why is it that the 4th &/or 5th Middle Hitter is on full scholarship, despite never playing, and probably never will. But the Libero or #1 DS is a walk on with no scholarship, despite being far more important to the team and winning now? Makes no sense. The Libero is a key player and so is the DS, it is such a ball control game now. Ask Texas what a crappy passing team will do to your chances last year. Yet, there is only one, maybe 2 back row players on scholarship? Yes, I understand that the 4th or 5th MH may be a freshman and contribute down the line, but the Libero and DSL are contributing NOW! Thoughts?
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Post by volleyguy on Sept 22, 2014 21:48:47 GMT -5
Short people got no reason Short people got no reason Short people got no reason to live
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Post by volleyball20102011 on Sept 22, 2014 22:15:20 GMT -5
Quality hitters are far more valuable than a DS. There are loads of libero/DS types out there. The number of great hitters is more limited.
Also, few teams if any will full scholarship a 4th or 5th middle. Maybe 4, most likely 3.
A breakdown for a team with 12 full rides would prolly be something like: 2 setters, 2RS/utility, 4 OH, 3 MB, 1 libero.
The game at the highest level really isn't about ball control anymore. It's really about having the biggest guns. Still gotta pass/play D, but if you can't terminate you won't win.
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Post by brickwall on Sept 22, 2014 23:45:51 GMT -5
Ok, let me vent. Why is it that the 4th &/or 5th Middle Hitter is on full scholarship, despite never playing, and probably never will. But the Libero or #1 DS is a walk on with no scholarship, despite being far more important to the team and winning now? Makes no sense. The Libero is a key player and so is the DS, it is such a ball control game now. Ask Texas what a crappy passing team will do to your chances last year. Yet, there is only one, maybe 2 back row players on scholarship? Yes, I understand that the 4th or 5th MH may be a freshman and contribute down the line, but the Libero and DSL are contributing NOW! Thoughts? I'm with you, I believe your libero is your most important player in the game at all levels. I know it's a supply vs. demand thing, but a really amazing defender is worth 3 times as much as pretty good hitter/blocker, IMO.
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Post by vbnerd on Sept 23, 2014 1:46:34 GMT -5
For American women the average height is 5'5" with a standard deviation of 3.5 inches.
That means 68% of American women are between 5'1.5" and 5'8.5" If you add the women up to 6' you've now covered 81% of the population. Those women 6' or taller, if I remember my standard deviations, make up just 2.2% of the population, and of course 50 of that group are going to be below average athletes. Now, the subset that plays volleyball isn't exactly random so it will skew taller but that 1.1% is also being sought out to play basketball, tennis, swimming, high jump and first base.
The role of athleticism in liberos isn't as clear - jumping isn't an issue and there are high level players who make up for a lack of quickness with reading and anticipation skills - though to play any position in a BCS conference you'll have to be some sort of athlete.
With a candidate pool that is SO much larger it is reletively easy to find a smart kid walk-on who can get enough academic money to allow them to play at your school, while a middle gets scholarship offers if they can manage to tie their shoes properly and walk onto the court, so you better be willing to offer them as well.
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Post by alpacaone on Sept 23, 2014 7:00:56 GMT -5
When is it too late to offer a scholarship? For example, say a grant and aid player can't attend and the practice season has already begun, can that scholarship be given to someone else on the roster for the season?
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Post by bluecollar on Sept 23, 2014 8:01:11 GMT -5
Ok, let me vent. Why is it that the 4th &/or 5th Middle Hitter is on full scholarship, despite never playing, and probably never will. But the Libero or #1 DS is a walk on with no scholarship, despite being far more important to the team and winning now? Makes no sense. The Libero is a key player and so is the DS, it is such a ball control game now. Ask Texas what a crappy passing team will do to your chances last year. Yet, there is only one, maybe 2 back row players on scholarship? Yes, I understand that the 4th or 5th MH may be a freshman and contribute down the line, but the Libero and DSL are contributing NOW! Thoughts? I think it depends on the school. I know several DI coaches that invest at least two scholarships in the DS/Libero position. I also know a lot of coaches that use their outside hitters who don't it in the front row in that role. The real question is why do liberos/ds players continue to walk-on? I know a lot of coaches that know they can get a quality defensive player without investing a full scholarship and it's a lot tougher to get a quality attacker with size for anything less than a full scholarship.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 23, 2014 8:11:32 GMT -5
This conversation makes me think of Iowa St. last year. They had one of the clear cut top 3 liberos in the nation last year in Hahn. Their DS (#2 libero) Nolan started on the JN, was the #2 libero recruit in her class and basically played up to that level. CJL had a good, but not AA caliber, supporting cast around them. Iowa St. lost in the first round of the tournament, finished the season about #36 in Pablo, and weren't really a factor all season (didn't beat anybody better than Kansas).
If you have one of the, by general consensus, Top 3 outsides in the country, with a sidekick sophomore who is the #2 outside in her class (and living up to it), and surround them with a solid, but unspectacular, supporting cast, you're a threat to win every match you play. A team like that can easily advance to the Sweet 16, or further with a good draw.
At the end of the day, that's why they 'ship the hitters. They have a bigger impact on wins-losses.
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Post by n00b on Sept 23, 2014 8:44:52 GMT -5
When is it too late to offer a scholarship? For example, say a grant and aid player can't attend and the practice season has already begun, can that scholarship be given to someone else on the roster for the season? Yes. I believe they don't become a counter until they actually receive athletically-related aid. Until then, you should be able to redistribute money.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 23, 2014 9:29:11 GMT -5
This conversation makes me think of Iowa St. last year. They had one of the clear cut top 3 liberos in the nation last year in Hahn. Their DS (#2 libero) Nolan started on the JN, was the #2 libero recruit in her class and basically played up to that level. CJL had a good, but not AA caliber, supporting cast around them. Iowa St. lost in the first round of the tournament, finished the season about #36 in Pablo, and weren't really a factor all season (didn't beat anybody better than Kansas). If you have one of the, by general consensus, Top 3 outsides in the country, with a sidekick sophomore who is the #2 outside in her class (and living up to it), and surround them with a solid, but unspectacular, supporting cast, you're a threat to win every match you play. A team like that can easily advance to the Sweet 16, or further with a good draw. At the end of the day, that's why they 'ship the hitters. They have a bigger impact on wins-losses. I don't think single examples really prove anything--take the other ISU. People here thought Illinois State's coach should get canned. She brings in a great libero and suddenly those same hitters are taking down Wichita State, Ohio State, etc.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Sept 23, 2014 9:38:40 GMT -5
This conversation makes me think of Iowa St. last year. They had one of the clear cut top 3 liberos in the nation last year in Hahn. Their DS (#2 libero) Nolan started on the JN, was the #2 libero recruit in her class and basically played up to that level. CJL had a good, but not AA caliber, supporting cast around them. Iowa St. lost in the first round of the tournament, finished the season about #36 in Pablo, and weren't really a factor all season (didn't beat anybody better than Kansas). If you have one of the, by general consensus, Top 3 outsides in the country, with a sidekick sophomore who is the #2 outside in her class (and living up to it), and surround them with a solid, but unspectacular, supporting cast, you're a threat to win every match you play. A team like that can easily advance to the Sweet 16, or further with a good draw. At the end of the day, that's why they 'ship the hitters. They have a bigger impact on wins-losses. I don't think single examples really prove anything--take the other ISU. People here thought Illinois State's coach should get canned. She brings in a great libero and suddenly those same hitters are taking down Wichita State, Ohio State, etc. Um. No. As someone whose team played Illinois St., their libero is a senior returner. I also think the freshman middle who is leading the team in blocks, 2nd in kills and hitting over .300 would have more to do with any improvement (almost as much as Wichita St. and Ohio St. being worse than they were last year!) Edit: Yes, it's one example, but it's rather exemplary of the fact that great liberos win you WAY fewer matches above the replacement level than a great hitter would.
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Post by volleyball20102011 on Sept 23, 2014 9:56:14 GMT -5
At the end of the day, you have to score points (kills, blocks, aces). Liberos can only do one of those. You need the hitters who can terminate and end rallies in your favor.
This is the exact same discussion as to why there weren't a lot of Big 10 liberos making high all conference selections. The impact on a match isn't as high for a libero than a top OH or other hitter.
The Texas example...they had some of the best hitters in the country last year. Decent libero, decent DS to play back row. They made final 4 and lost. Yes their ball control became an issue but they stil made final four!!!!
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Post by utoolity on Sept 23, 2014 11:54:50 GMT -5
You can also avoid/neutralize a good libero by not allowing them to handle the ball in serve receive and mitigate their impact on the game even more. You cannot avoid an OH who hits the high ball in transition, and you cannot avoid running your offense around a good middle blocker. They will get their touches and their points where a libero may only have a chance to impact the game from the serve line, on defense, and if they take the 2nd ball. 6 rotation OH's do that and so does the middle who serves while also scoring. Good libero's are valuable, but should likely only be on a 1/2 scholie at any level due to the limited point scoring they provide. Always exceptions to the rule and yes, well aware that you cannot divide up at the D1 level unless you're underfunded. And if you're underfunded you likely need all the offense and blocking you can get.
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Post by Wolfgang on Sept 23, 2014 12:28:12 GMT -5
Height cannot be taught.
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Post by bigfan on Sept 23, 2014 12:35:44 GMT -5
Ok, let me vent. Why is it that the 4th &/or 5th Middle Hitter is on full scholarship, despite never playing, and probably never will. But the Libero or #1 DS is a walk on with no scholarship, despite being far more important to the team and winning now? Thoughts? Maybe they are of scholarships and she will get one next season.
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