|
Post by 4vball4 on Jan 14, 2015 10:52:01 GMT -5
Here's hoping there is further refinement to the brackets. On Monday, the 17s Gold bracket has teams matched up against the same opponent they played in pool play on Sunday. Hope the tourney officials recognize this before the event starts.
|
|
|
Post by vb0012 on Jan 14, 2015 10:53:12 GMT -5
I have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for the SC programs. I think that the California teams are really good. Lord knows they get the better coaching! BUT, if you want to prove world dominance you can't just play in your own back yard. Even the NCAA, such as they are, told Pepperdine and the rest of the MPSF if you want to make the tourney you have stop playing with yourself and go unto the world. The top 10 teams from Nationals 2014; 17 Open 6 were NOT from Southern California, 18 Open; Seven, 16 Open; five. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the world of Men's Volleyball is no longer strictly a California Dance. Sooooooooooo, when the California teams are willing to travel to the Chicago's of USAV club volleyball and DOMINATE as you think they will, and I mean take the top ten positions at every level at every qualifier, then you can claim superiority. Until then ........... Be prepared for a 10.0 on the Richter Scale cause it's coming. Just ask Brazil's soccor team....... Why should we require parents to spend $1,000.00 extra per year when those teams can play the best competition in the country every week staying in the warm, sunny Southern California weather. I'm a Midwestern guy, but there is no way if I were a top Southern California (or Northern California) parent that I would be thrilled to spend that much money if my son's team already had a bid to Nationals. That's a completely apples to oranges comparison. The student-athletes are not paying for their trips out of their own pockets in the NCAA. And teams who earn an autobid (winning their conference tournament - the equivalent of earning a bid at a National qualifier) do not have their bid taken away if their out of conference wasn't strong enough.
And nobody is saying California teams occupy every top spot in every division. But how many teams outside of California win Nationals from, say, ages 16 and up (14 and 15 sometimes get dominated by Puerto Rican and Hawaiian teams)? Off the top of my head, in recent years the only teams that have won Nationals from outside of CA that I can think of are West Allis Lightning 16 in 2010, West Allis Lightning 18 in 2012, and St. Louis High Performance 18 in 2007. I'm sure there are others, but that's just off the top of my head.
The 18 open final last year was two teams that weren't from california (Spiral and Ultimate)
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 11:16:40 GMT -5
Why should we require parents to spend $1,000.00 extra per year when those teams can play the best competition in the country every week staying in the warm, sunny Southern California weather. I'm a Midwestern guy, but there is no way if I were a top Southern California (or Northern California) parent that I would be thrilled to spend that much money if my son's team already had a bid to Nationals. That's a completely apples to oranges comparison. The student-athletes are not paying for their trips out of their own pockets in the NCAA. And teams who earn an autobid (winning their conference tournament - the equivalent of earning a bid at a National qualifier) do not have their bid taken away if their out of conference wasn't strong enough.
And nobody is saying California teams occupy every top spot in every division. But how many teams outside of California win Nationals from, say, ages 16 and up (14 and 15 sometimes get dominated by Puerto Rican and Hawaiian teams)? Off the top of my head, in recent years the only teams that have won Nationals from outside of CA that I can think of are West Allis Lightning 16 in 2010, West Allis Lightning 18 in 2012, and St. Louis High Performance 18 in 2007. I'm sure there are others, but that's just off the top of my head.
The 18 open final last year was two teams that weren't from california (Spiral and Ultimate) Good call. And the Hawaiian 18s team from last year won it at 17 and 16. So it certainly happens. But it's also true that CA teams win the National title in the older age groups far more often than any other state/area.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 15:23:51 GMT -5
I have absolutely nothing but the utmost respect for the SC programs. I think that the California teams are really good. Lord knows they get the better coaching! BUT, if you want to prove world dominance you can't just play in your own back yard. Even the NCAA, such as they are, told Pepperdine and the rest of the MPSF if you want to make the tourney you have stop playing with yourself and go unto the world. The top 10 teams from Nationals 2014; 17 Open 6 were NOT from Southern California, 18 Open; Seven, 16 Open; five. Whether you choose to believe it or not, the world of Men's Volleyball is no longer strictly a California Dance. Sooooooooooo, when the California teams are willing to travel to the Chicago's of USAV club volleyball and DOMINATE as you think they will, and I mean take the top ten positions at every level at every qualifier, then you can claim superiority. Until then ........... Be prepared for a 10.0 on the Richter Scale cause it's coming. Just ask Brazil's soccor team....... Why should we require parents to spend $1,000.00 extra per year when those teams can play the best competition in the country every week staying in the warm, sunny Southern California weather. I'm a Midwestern guy, but there is no way if I were a top Southern California (or Northern California) parent that I would be thrilled to spend that much money if my son's team already had a bid to Nationals. That's a completely apples to oranges comparison. The student-athletes are not paying for their trips out of their own pockets in the NCAA. And teams who earn an autobid (winning their conference tournament - the equivalent of earning a bid at a National qualifier) do not have their bid taken away if their out of conference wasn't strong enough.
And nobody is saying California teams occupy every top spot in every division. But how many teams outside of California win Nationals from, say, ages 16 and up (14 and 15 sometimes get dominated by Puerto Rican and Hawaiian teams)? Off the top of my head, in recent years the only teams that have won Nationals from outside of CA that I can think of are West Allis Lightning 16 in 2010, West Allis Lightning 18 in 2012, and St. Louis High Performance 18 in 2007. I'm sure there are others, but that's just off the top of my head.
You can't claim to be the best, if you aren't willing to play in someone else's sandbox from time to time. It just doesn't work that way anymore. We played at the SCVA Invitational two weeks ago. Only lost to one California team. played them to three sets lost by two. It's all about the breaks, we didn't get them, that's how it goes. Yes there are some very good teams in the NC and SC regions, only one really stacked team though, SCVC. The mystic of the California team is not there any longer. Just like every one used to oooh and aaah when the Puerto Ricans came to town. Sorry, again just not that awe inspiring anymore. The East Coast and Mid West clubs are starting to contend with the West Coast clubs teams. Talent is every where. SC Region just happens to more concentrated. You only have to look at the recent SCVA tourney. Boys club and Men's College are no longer solely a West Coast event. Particularly at the college level. There is abundant talent else where in this country not just the West Coast. Pepperdine's coaches traveled to Virginia last year to recruit and not just at the East Coast tourney. Ken Shibuya from Stanford has been to the east coast the last two years to conduct camps. Half of the USAV BYNT was from the Midwest and east coast. All I am saying is that the west coast just doesn't have the monopoly on boys and men's volleyball any more. They are much more akin to big and little brothers. the west coast being the big brother, more mature and better skilled. The little brother is growing up fast though and one day he will take down his older sibling. For the college game it has already happened. Yes traveling to California was a bit expensive, But only because of the time of year. The midst of bowl season most likely.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2015 18:21:50 GMT -5
Why should we require parents to spend $1,000.00 extra per year when those teams can play the best competition in the country every week staying in the warm, sunny Southern California weather. I'm a Midwestern guy, but there is no way if I were a top Southern California (or Northern California) parent that I would be thrilled to spend that much money if my son's team already had a bid to Nationals. That's a completely apples to oranges comparison. The student-athletes are not paying for their trips out of their own pockets in the NCAA. And teams who earn an autobid (winning their conference tournament - the equivalent of earning a bid at a National qualifier) do not have their bid taken away if their out of conference wasn't strong enough.
And nobody is saying California teams occupy every top spot in every division. But how many teams outside of California win Nationals from, say, ages 16 and up (14 and 15 sometimes get dominated by Puerto Rican and Hawaiian teams)? Off the top of my head, in recent years the only teams that have won Nationals from outside of CA that I can think of are West Allis Lightning 16 in 2010, West Allis Lightning 18 in 2012, and St. Louis High Performance 18 in 2007. I'm sure there are others, but that's just off the top of my head.
You can't claim to be the best, if you aren't willing to play in someone else's sandbox from time to time. It just doesn't work that way anymore. We played at the SCVA Invitational two weeks ago. Only lost to one California team. played them to three sets lost by two. It's all about the breaks, we didn't get them, that's how it goes. Yes there are some very good teams in the NC and SC regions, only one really stacked team though, SCVC. The mystic of the California team is not there any longer. Just like every one used to oooh and aaah when the Puerto Ricans came to town. Sorry, again just not that awe inspiring anymore. The East Coast and Mid West clubs are starting to contend with the West Coast clubs teams. Talent is every where. SC Region just happens to more concentrated. You only have to look at the recent SCVA tourney. Boys club and Men's College are no longer solely a West Coast event. Particularly at the college level. There is abundant talent else where in this country not just the West Coast. Pepperdine's coaches traveled to Virginia last year to recruit and not just at the East Coast tourney. Ken Shibuya from Stanford has been to the east coast the last two years to conduct camps. Half of the USAV BYNT was from the Midwest and east coast. All I am saying is that the west coast just doesn't have the monopoly on boys and men's volleyball any more. They are much more akin to big and little brothers. the west coast being the big brother, more mature and better skilled. The little brother is growing up fast though and one day he will take down his older sibling. For the college game it has already happened. Yes traveling to California was a bit expensive, But only because of the time of year. The midst of bowl season most likely. (Just for a reference, I was one of the coaches for one of the non-west coast National Championship teams that I listed, so I don't have some kind of bias against the Midwest or East Coast, or have a lack of understanding that Midwest and East coast teams can have success on a National level. If anything, my bias is FOR the Midwest.) I am well aware that college coaches are recruiting kids from all over the country and that clubs and colleges outside of CA can have success. I am also not naive enough to think that everyone is on the level that CA volleyball is at suddenly. At the club level, showing that you can compete with those teams in the "first" season is great, but it all comes down to medals at Nationals. CA has owned many of those. College and club alike, Midwest and East coast teams have shown they can win the whole thing, but year in and year out CA teams perform at a very high level. The game as a whole is growing and that includes the Midwest and East coast, and that is a very good thing.
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB0630 on Jan 14, 2015 18:34:12 GMT -5
Do you guys think LIVBC has a shot at medaling at nationals?
They could just be a fluke team that played well at SCVA, or they could be the real deal. I'm not sure.
|
|
|
Post by vbsetter2012 on Jan 14, 2015 19:19:05 GMT -5
Here's hoping there is further refinement to the brackets. On Monday, the 17s Gold bracket has teams matched up against the same opponent they played in pool play on Sunday. Hope the tourney officials recognize this before the event starts. You spoke....they listened. 17's Gold bracket has been shuffled to avoid the rematches.
|
|
|
Post by HawaiiVB0630 on Jan 14, 2015 21:03:10 GMT -5
Sorry for bringing up the 15's again, but I was just looking through the pools for the final two days, and I came across something strange.
On the 2nd day after the pool day, there is a challenge bracket game between the #1 and the #2 seed. Why is this?
|
|
|
Post by freeball on Jan 14, 2015 23:12:06 GMT -5
Seedings for 15s were fixed today. Adversity moved from #12 to #3. Sting was dropped below MVC. Several other teams moved down because of Adversity moving up. I think the adjustments today make sense and are now in line with how teams finished in Palos point series with STLHP and Long Island thrown in at the top (we'll see if that's where they belong).
|
|
|
Post by GWVBall96 on Jan 15, 2015 0:17:59 GMT -5
Seedings for 15s were fixed today. Adversity moved from #12 to #3. Sting was dropped below MVC. Several other teams moved down because of Adversity moving up. I think the adjustments today make sense and are now in line with how teams finished in Palos point series with STLHP and Long Island thrown in at the top (we'll see if that's where they belong). Looks like adversity is good after all
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 9:01:25 GMT -5
You can't claim to be the best, if you aren't willing to play in someone else's sandbox from time to time. It just doesn't work that way anymore. We played at the SCVA Invitational two weeks ago. Only lost to one California team. played them to three sets lost by two. It's all about the breaks, we didn't get them, that's how it goes. Yes there are some very good teams in the NC and SC regions, only one really stacked team though, SCVC. The mystic of the California team is not there any longer. Just like every one used to oooh and aaah when the Puerto Ricans came to town. Sorry, again just not that awe inspiring anymore. The East Coast and Mid West clubs are starting to contend with the West Coast clubs teams. Talent is every where. SC Region just happens to more concentrated. You only have to look at the recent SCVA tourney. Boys club and Men's College are no longer solely a West Coast event. Particularly at the college level. There is abundant talent else where in this country not just the West Coast. Pepperdine's coaches traveled to Virginia last year to recruit and not just at the East Coast tourney. Ken Shibuya from Stanford has been to the east coast the last two years to conduct camps. Half of the USAV BYNT was from the Midwest and east coast. All I am saying is that the west coast just doesn't have the monopoly on boys and men's volleyball any more. They are much more akin to big and little brothers. the west coast being the big brother, more mature and better skilled. The little brother is growing up fast though and one day he will take down his older sibling. For the college game it has already happened. Yes traveling to California was a bit expensive, But only because of the time of year. The midst of bowl season most likely. (Just for a reference, I was one of the coaches for one of the non-west coast National Championship teams that I listed, so I don't have some kind of bias against the Midwest or East Coast, or have a lack of understanding that Midwest and East coast teams can have success on a National level. If anything, my bias is FOR the Midwest.) I am well aware that college coaches are recruiting kids from all over the country and that clubs and colleges outside of CA can have success. I am also not naive enough to think that everyone is on the level that CA volleyball is at suddenly. At the club level, showing that you can compete with those teams in the "first" season is great, but it all comes down to medals at Nationals. CA has owned many of those. College and club alike, Midwest and East coast teams have shown they can win the whole thing, but year in and year out CA teams perform at a very high level. The game as a whole is growing and that includes the Midwest and East coast, and that is a very good thing. The west coast has had the benefit of higher level coaching experience from the likes of Bill Ferguson from USC and Tyler Hildebrand of LBSU for years. They certainly are the older brother as far as volleyball skill and expertise as a result of that exposure. I also coach but at the high school level, since I enjoy watching my son play, I prefer not to coach club. I agree that when it comes down to the number of first place finishes at Nationals, the standard is always going to be the number of medals won. I, however, try to evaluate the competition on a head to head basis. What I saw at the Invitational was a lot of talent equal to that of the West Coast teams. However the crunch time experience was weighted toward the west coast. Getting the tip or the block at a critical time to turn the momentum definitely favors the California experience. In my experience as a coach and as an official for more than 30 years I see a change in the tide. It may take a while but it is most definitely building.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 9:28:28 GMT -5
(Just for a reference, I was one of the coaches for one of the non-west coast National Championship teams that I listed, so I don't have some kind of bias against the Midwest or East Coast, or have a lack of understanding that Midwest and East coast teams can have success on a National level. If anything, my bias is FOR the Midwest.) I am well aware that college coaches are recruiting kids from all over the country and that clubs and colleges outside of CA can have success. I am also not naive enough to think that everyone is on the level that CA volleyball is at suddenly. At the club level, showing that you can compete with those teams in the "first" season is great, but it all comes down to medals at Nationals. CA has owned many of those. College and club alike, Midwest and East coast teams have shown they can win the whole thing, but year in and year out CA teams perform at a very high level. The game as a whole is growing and that includes the Midwest and East coast, and that is a very good thing. The west coast has had the benefit of higher level coaching experience from the likes of Bill Ferguson from USC and Tyler Hildebrand of LBSU for years. They certainly are the older brother as far as volleyball skill and expertise as a result of that exposure. I also coach but at the high school level, since I enjoy watching my son play, I prefer not to coach club. I agree that when it comes down to the number of first place finishes at Nationals, the standard is always going to be the number of medals won. I, however, try to evaluate the competition on a head to head basis. What I saw at the Invitational was a lot of talent equal to that of the West Coast teams. However the crunch time experience was weighted toward the west coast. Getting the tip or the block at a critical time to turn the momentum definitely favors the California experience. In my experience as a coach and as an official for more than 30 years I see a change in the tide. It may take a while but it is most definitely building. Appreciate the input. That really is great news, even to the California side of things. Competition is always a good thing. The game is definitely growing on the boys side in the USA, and it is a very good thing.
|
|
|
Post by dgo on Jan 15, 2015 9:57:49 GMT -5
The west coast has had the benefit of higher level coaching experience from the likes of Bill Ferguson from USC and Tyler Hildebrand of LBSU for years. They certainly are the older brother as far as volleyball skill and expertise as a result of that exposure. I also coach but at the high school level, since I enjoy watching my son play, I prefer not to coach club. I agree that when it comes down to the number of first place finishes at Nationals, the standard is always going to be the number of medals won. I, however, try to evaluate the competition on a head to head basis. What I saw at the Invitational was a lot of talent equal to that of the West Coast teams. However the crunch time experience was weighted toward the west coast. Getting the tip or the block at a critical time to turn the momentum definitely favors the California experience. In my experience as a coach and as an official for more than 30 years I see a change in the tide. It may take a while but it is most definitely building. Appreciate the input. That really is great news, even to the California side of things. Competition is always a good thing. The game is definitely growing on the boys side in the USA, and it is a very good thing. For a more specific Midwest point of view (i.e., Ohio), the boys game is really growing. On the club side, the top Vanguard team is a nice team. They are the best team my son's team has faced this season (we saw HPSTL and KIVA in Columbus last month, but didn't play them). I'm curious to see how the Vanguard team does in Chicago against top competition. I'm amazed that they're seeded 21st. I don't have the knowledge to know whether that is an appropriate seed, but if it is, there's going to be some really good volleyball to watch this weekend. I'm looking forward to watching my son's team play, but also looking forward to seeing some other really good teams. If anyone has suggestions for some "can't miss" matches on the schedule, please mention it here. On the high school side, it seems like there are new teams being added each year. My son's team might actually have to cut players this year because so many boys are planning to play. Just a few years ago, that would have been unthinkable. And every returning player on the varsity team this season is playing club ball. Also unthinkable just a year ago. I would expect the extra training and touches from a club season will definitely benefit my son's HS team (and his club team has his HS S, OH1, MB1 and RS -- four is the maximum in OVR). Clearly, Ohio is behind some of the other Midwest states, but it is definitely improving.
|
|
|
Post by pwvb on Jan 15, 2015 10:38:44 GMT -5
Do you guys think LIVBC has a shot at medaling at nationals? They could just be a fluke team that played well at SCVA, or they could be the real deal. I'm not sure. Lets see how they fare in Chicago. I am curious to watch them as I didn't see them play in SCVA two weeks ago. From other posts on these boards--#12 is a monster. From talking with some of the other parents at SCVA that played them -defense was highlighted as strong; beyond #12-seem to have strong hitting: OPP, MB and second OH. In addition to a very good setter, they seemed to add some height as well. Anyone else see them at SCVA?
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2015 10:59:29 GMT -5
Long Island is a legitimate team. They play hard, are athletic and very good defensively. Dylan Missry #12 is their workhorse, he takes probably about 90% of their shots. If you can stop him they are beatable. His passing is suspect on the back row, but his hitting definitely makes up for that. They have a decent oppo, and second middle. If you shut Dylan down though, they have a hard time running their offense. Don't misunderstand though, they are a very strong team. The thing I like about them is their intensity and excitement. Oh, and they are from the EAST COAST.
|
|