|
|
Post by kro2488 on Jan 23, 2015 17:27:33 GMT -5
What would you guys think about if the AVP did one tournament a season that, was entirely old school rules, and court size? I think it would be really cool and interesting. Not that it would ever happen just musing.
|
|
|
|
Post by Semp12 on Jan 23, 2015 22:44:04 GMT -5
And the players will not be happy, just like however many years ago whoever tried it.
I did a quick look, and I cannot believe it was already 5 years ago tried it for the Manhattan Open.
|
|
|
|
Post by Kale'aRuth on Jan 23, 2015 23:32:38 GMT -5
 I could get up-up for that.  |
|
|
|
Post by innervoice on Jan 25, 2015 6:00:30 GMT -5
Terrible idea. And even worse picture above.....this isn't your locker at the gym...
|
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Jan 25, 2015 23:37:16 GMT -5
Yeah, the "Old School rules"-ship sailed away going on its 2nd DECADE now...Pro's train and workout year long on SHORT COURT and it would be like asking PGA pros to play "executive" courses for a while or any simliar format change. They don't practice it, its different, so not fair to their time in the game...IMHO...
|
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Jan 25, 2015 23:37:56 GMT -5
Not sure where the poster came from....bikinis DID sell the AVP, though not a popular subject these days ; - )
|
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Jan 26, 2015 4:27:47 GMT -5
Yeah, the "Old School rules"-ship sailed away going on its 2nd DECADE now...Pro's train and workout year long on SHORT COURT and it would be like asking PGA pros to play "executive" courses for a while or any simliar format change. They don't practice it, its different, so not fair to their time in the game...IMHO... Its not fair to a bunch of spoiled brats? What difference does that make if the fans want it? Rules change in sports all the time. The PGA pros play a different type of course every year at the British Open. Tennis pros do the same with clay, hardcourts, grass. NFL players go from dome to torrential rain, snow and freezing temperatures. This isnt some huge imposition and there is a market for it. The old school tournament Donald Sun wanted is yet another example of how awful this generation of pros are. I would have loved to see him say "Oh you won't show up? Ok go play NVL for five years and then when I let you come back, you can set up the lines for all courts before I let you play." |
|
|
|
Post by kro2488 on Jan 26, 2015 14:40:12 GMT -5
Yeah, the "Old School rules"-ship sailed away going on its 2nd DECADE now...Pro's train and workout year long on SHORT COURT and it would be like asking PGA pros to play "executive" courses for a while or any simliar format change. They don't practice it, its different, so not fair to their time in the game...IMHO... Its not fair to a bunch of spoiled brats? What difference does that make if the fans want it? Rules change in sports all the time. The PGA pros play a different type of course every year at the British Open. Tennis pros do the same with clay, hardcourts, grass. NFL players go from dome to torrential rain, snow and freezing temperatures. This isnt some huge imposition and there is a market for it. The old school tournament Donald Sun wanted is yet another example of how awful this generation of pros are. I would have loved to see him say "Oh you won't show up? Ok go play NVL for five years and then when I let you come back, you can set up the lines for all courts before I let you play." Also might gain even more respect for the previous players that came through the ranks, and I mean most of the players played those rules when they were growing up. It would be good for the players who never have before I think especially. |
|
|
|
Post by guest2 on Jan 26, 2015 18:37:46 GMT -5
Its not fair to a bunch of spoiled brats? What difference does that make if the fans want it? Rules change in sports all the time. The PGA pros play a different type of course every year at the British Open. Tennis pros do the same with clay, hardcourts, grass. NFL players go from dome to torrential rain, snow and freezing temperatures. This isnt some huge imposition and there is a market for it. The old school tournament Donald Sun wanted is yet another example of how awful this generation of pros are. I would have loved to see him say "Oh you won't show up? Ok go play NVL for five years and then when I let you come back, you can set up the lines for all courts before I let you play." Also might gain even more respect for the previous players that came through the ranks, and I mean most of the players played those rules when they were growing up. It would be good for the players who never have before I think especially. Good point. Similar to when blocking over was allowed. Players who had experience in the old "50/50 have to dig a guys best hit" days had a big advantage over newer guys on defense. Compare Jon Stevenson on defense to Brian Lewis to see the difference that made. I think similar benefits probably came to those who came up on big court, although not too many are left |
|
|
|
Post by volleyballjim on Jan 26, 2015 19:09:57 GMT -5
Right now, emphasis on "now", the AVP IS the red-haired-stepchild to the FIVB, it wasn't (was it?) during their hey day pre-demise-'08. They must adhear, currently, to the pecking order. If you extract WHO actually wants to watch "old school rules" in play, its an unfortunate mix of baby-boomer (Hey, I'm right in the middle of THAT pack) highly-involved players wanting to portray themselves as fans! Are there really any "beach volleyball fans" or just players, and highly skilled ones at that, generally, that watch pro events...SO, Donald Sun DID want to "go retro" early on and then shortly afterwards, I believe, dropped the idea...Probably because he understands marketing and what YOU want is not generally what THEY (READ: fans) want...Lets get Beach Volleyball back on TV regularly and then work in a retro game...
|
|
|
|
Post by innervoice on Jan 30, 2015 0:13:25 GMT -5
Right now, emphasis on "now", the AVP IS the red-haired-stepchild to the FIVB, it wasn't (was it?) during their hey day pre-demise-'08. They must adhear, currently, to the pecking order. If you extract WHO actually wants to watch "old school rules" in play, its an unfortunate mix of baby-boomer (Hey, I'm right in the middle of THAT pack) highly-involved players wanting to portray themselves as fans! Are there really any "beach volleyball fans" or just players, and highly skilled ones at that, generally, that watch pro events...SO, Donald Sun DID want to "go retro" early on and then shortly afterwards, I believe, dropped the idea...Probably because he understands marketing and what YOU want is not generally what THEY (READ: fans) want...Lets get Beach Volleyball back on TV regularly and then work in a retro game... Very well put VBall Jim....dollars n cents...what the AVP has been missing for sometime. There might be a spot on the exec. board for you if you keep this up...a majority of fans and athletes are accustomed to the new packaging and going from a short 40-60 min match to a 100-180+ min. match is not t.v. appropriate nor does it favor the athletes who have trained for a specific style game not conducive to long, drawn out battles...not that they could not handle it as a great majority of them could but not in the best interest of the sport. |
|
|
|
Post by beavis on Jan 30, 2015 3:36:18 GMT -5
It would be awesome, and fun as hell for the fans, I think. Imagine no side-out scoring with the 9 minute time limit coming into play like it used to - how cool! I also thought it would be interesting to reunite the old teams for a quickie side tournament - Fro/Ack (or Lewy) playing Hov/Dodd and Randy/Sinjin - the crowd would go nuts!!! Masakayan, Holly, Youngs - I could watch that all day!!! Hint, hint, Mr. Sun!
|
|
|
|
Post by klazk on Jan 30, 2015 11:24:03 GMT -5
Right now, emphasis on "now", the AVP IS the red-haired-stepchild to the FIVB, it wasn't (was it?) during their hey day pre-demise-'08. They must adhear, currently, to the pecking order. If you extract WHO actually wants to watch "old school rules" in play, its an unfortunate mix of baby-boomer (Hey, I'm right in the middle of THAT pack) highly-involved players wanting to portray themselves as fans! Are there really any "beach volleyball fans" or just players, and highly skilled ones at that, generally, that watch pro events...SO, Donald Sun DID want to "go retro" early on and then shortly afterwards, I believe, dropped the idea...Probably because he understands marketing and what YOU want is not generally what THEY (READ: fans) want...Lets get Beach Volleyball back on TV regularly and then work in a retro game... I would buy this if the sport had general audience fans and it had been proven that the sport will ultimately be popular enough to survive with rally scoring. But it doesn't and it hasn't. It has hard core fans that are going to watch regardless and it has casual fans that go when the tournament is in town or they happen to see it on TV. The only general market fan viewership is during the Olympics. I don't think we can honestly say that anyone knows for sure that a random viewer would or would not make a decision to watch or not an event because it was side-out instead of rally or small court versus big court. Maybe you can say TV wouldn't broadcast side-out because it didn't fit into their time slot, but I bet they would find a way to make it fit if the sport did actually have fans and those fans demanded it. I don't necessarily think it is a great idea, but it isn't a horrible one either. If the players don't want to do it, then that probably kills it because I don't think it is a good enough (i.e. money making) idea to force them into it. So many of the tournaments aren't even followed, you really think you are going to drive away fans or sponsor dollars by having a one-off tournament? I think an argument could easily be made that you actually draw in some people that used to be regulars but have sworn off going to a tournament because they hate the new rules. Of course I have no support for my position. But those saying it is a horrible idea and would turn fans off have no support for that side either. I can't remember which thread, but someone recently posted something that I thought was the best argument for the return to side-out scoring that I have read on this board. Side out scoring creates comebacks and drama. The sport can't be popular to the masses in its current form because it is almost impossible to have a big comeback with rally scoring. I don't think it will ever happen, but that was the first argument that made me budge slightly from my rather firm "it's never going to change back so why are we still talking about it?" position. |
|
|
|
Post by kro2488 on Jan 30, 2015 12:40:12 GMT -5
Right now, emphasis on "now", the AVP IS the red-haired-stepchild to the FIVB, it wasn't (was it?) during their hey day pre-demise-'08. They must adhear, currently, to the pecking order. If you extract WHO actually wants to watch "old school rules" in play, its an unfortunate mix of baby-boomer (Hey, I'm right in the middle of THAT pack) highly-involved players wanting to portray themselves as fans! Are there really any "beach volleyball fans" or just players, and highly skilled ones at that, generally, that watch pro events...SO, Donald Sun DID want to "go retro" early on and then shortly afterwards, I believe, dropped the idea...Probably because he understands marketing and what YOU want is not generally what THEY (READ: fans) want...Lets get Beach Volleyball back on TV regularly and then work in a retro game... I would buy this if the sport had general audience fans and it had been proven that the sport will ultimately be popular enough to survive with rally scoring. But it doesn't and it hasn't. It has hard core fans that are going to watch regardless and it has casual fans that go when the tournament is in town or they happen to see it on TV. The only general market fan viewership is during the Olympics. I don't think we can honestly say that anyone knows for sure that a random viewer would or would not make a decision to watch or not an event because it was side-out instead of rally or small court versus big court. Maybe you can say TV wouldn't broadcast side-out because it didn't fit into their time slot, but I bet they would find a way to make it fit if the sport did actually have fans and those fans demanded it. I don't necessarily think it is a great idea, but it isn't a horrible one either. If the players don't want to do it, then that probably kills it because I don't think it is a good enough (i.e. money making) idea to force them into it. So many of the tournaments aren't even followed, you really think you are going to drive away fans or sponsor dollars by having a one-off tournament? I think an argument could easily be made that you actually draw in some people that used to be regulars but have sworn off going to a tournament because they hate the new rules. Of course I have no support for my position. But those saying it is a horrible idea and would turn fans off have no support for that side either. I can't remember which thread, but someone recently posted something that I thought was the best argument for the return to side-out scoring that I have read on this board. Side out scoring creates comebacks and drama. The sport can't be popular to the masses in its current form because it is almost impossible to have a big comeback with rally scoring. I don't think it will ever happen, but that was the first argument that made me budge slightly from my rather firm "it's never going to change back so why are we still talking about it?" position. Comebacks can occur but I think it's the length of the games that we don't have in rally scoring volleyball but have in other sports. Fans want to be entertained for long periods of time and rally scoring makes indoor and outdoor games go by way too fast. Where you have soccer and football tennis that go on for hours sometimes. Your lucky to get a two hour game in rally scoring. Only way you don't get more time in side-out scoring is obviously one team outmatches the other then you have 15-3 beat downs in sets obviously. |
|
|
|
Post by stevieofmb on Jan 30, 2015 14:50:27 GMT -5
I would buy this if the sport had general audience fans and it had been proven that the sport will ultimately be popular enough to survive with rally scoring. But it doesn't and it hasn't. It has hard core fans that are going to watch regardless and it has casual fans that go when the tournament is in town or they happen to see it on TV. The only general market fan viewership is during the Olympics. I don't think we can honestly say that anyone knows for sure that a random viewer would or would not make a decision to watch or not an event because it was side-out instead of rally or small court versus big court. Maybe you can say TV wouldn't broadcast side-out because it didn't fit into their time slot, but I bet they would find a way to make it fit if the sport did actually have fans and those fans demanded it. I don't necessarily think it is a great idea, but it isn't a horrible one either. If the players don't want to do it, then that probably kills it because I don't think it is a good enough (i.e. money making) idea to force them into it. So many of the tournaments aren't even followed, you really think you are going to drive away fans or sponsor dollars by having a one-off tournament? I think an argument could easily be made that you actually draw in some people that used to be regulars but have sworn off going to a tournament because they hate the new rules. Of course I have no support for my position. But those saying it is a horrible idea and would turn fans off have no support for that side either. I can't remember which thread, but someone recently posted something that I thought was the best argument for the return to side-out scoring that I have read on this board. Side out scoring creates comebacks and drama. The sport can't be popular to the masses in its current form because it is almost impossible to have a big comeback with rally scoring. I don't think it will ever happen, but that was the first argument that made me budge slightly from my rather firm "it's never going to change back so why are we still talking about it?" position. Comebacks can occur but I think it's the length of the games that we are neat in other sports. Fans want to be entertained for long periods of time and rally scoring makes indoor and outdoor games go by way too fast. Where you have soccer and football tennis that go on for hours sometimes. Your lucky to get a two hour game in rally scoring. Only way you don't get more time in sodeout scoring is obviously one team outmatcheS the other then you have 15-3 beat downs in sets obviously. |
|
