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Post by guest2 on Feb 10, 2015 8:45:54 GMT -5
In my mind if you build a strong enough product it shouldn't matter. Schedule 3 or 4 major events so they don't conflict with FIVB. The rest if the top 3 teams per gender miss, that is up to them. The tour should be able to survive without them. The sport is too top heavy. Some of that is sponsor driven I'm sure. Not I'm anxious to see her go because she is an amazing player, but when Walsh retires, it should be a HUGE opportunity for the AVP to start selling the product as a whole instead of individual players. To a much lesser extent Rogers and Dalhausser, too. Yes, they need to market the individual players and make them known so the fans can come and root for someone, but it should be the AVP tour. Right now, it seems like it is the AVP tour featuring Kerri Walsh. I think the trouble with that is not that the casual fans won't come, I think (other than Kerri) they come for the event. Its the hardcore fans. Take the top 3 teams from each gender out and honestly it looks a little too much like an EEVB event. Do I want to watch Carambula/Slick play Crabb/Allen to get into the final? Maybe on the AVP stream but I am not driving to the beach and sitting there for four hours for that payoff. Now that I have been thinking about it due to this thread, I think one of the major underrated effects of the rule changes on the game is how it has changed who the dominant players are and by doing so the image of the sport. Here is a comparison (obviously shaded by how old I was when both groups of players played). This is the top 10 in 1991 with their counterparts in 2014 1. Randy Stoklos - Gibb 1 Sinjin Smith - Patterson 3 Karch Kiraly - Hyden 4 Brent Frohoff - Bourne 5 Tim Hovland - Lucena 6 Kent Steffes - Doherty 7 Mike Dodd - Mayer 8 Dan Vrebalovich -Keenan 9 John Hanley - Rogers 10 Ricci Luyties - Brunner In terms of personality, appearance, general cool, which group of players would you pick. The 1991 guys, John Hanley's neck hair and Mike Dodd aside, could be a group of catalogue models selling beach lifestyle products. The current guys its a little different. Assume they are sitting around a bonfire (and so you didn't see how tall they were) drinking beer at Mission Beach. Now assume a bunch of computer engineers were 100 ft down the beach doing the same. What would separate one group from the other if you weren't a volleyball fan? Is that all the fault of the rules? Of course not. But its a large part.
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Post by klazk on Feb 10, 2015 10:59:34 GMT -5
In my mind if you build a strong enough product it shouldn't matter. Its the hardcore fans. Take the top 3 teams from each gender out and honestly it looks a little too much like an EEVB event. That is what I mean by building a stronger product. They need better players/teams top to bottom. There is too much emphasis on the top teams. They need to develop the players to the point that quality and draw do not suffer if 3-4 teams miss an AVP to play on FIVB.
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Post by volleyballjim on Feb 10, 2015 12:46:20 GMT -5
guest2: Great analysis. We could go round and round on this one, but it IS an objective problem. There IS one, two or a few real reasons in order of magnitude. What we've put up here are "logical" points of discussion, but doesn't make them true. What IS the reason for such a low attendance at, say, Santa Barbara (Where they don't have the foot traffic so much (like Hermosa)? Attendance was not too bad, but the AVP experience one gets at a venue WAY outweighs the associated attendance...Again, why?
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Post by volleyballjim on Feb 10, 2015 12:46:37 GMT -5
guest2: Great analysis. We could go round and round on this one, but it IS an objective problem. There IS one, two or a few real reasons in order of magnitude. What we've put up here are "logical" points of discussion, but doesn't make them true. What IS the reason for such a low attendance at, say, Santa Barbara (Where they don't have the foot traffic so much (like Hermosa)? Attendance was not too bad, but the AVP experience one gets at a venue WAY outweighs the associated attendance...Again, why?
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Post by JB Southpaw on Feb 10, 2015 12:47:33 GMT -5
In my mind if you build a strong enough product it shouldn't matter. Schedule 3 or 4 major events so they don't conflict with FIVB. The rest if the top 3 teams per gender miss, that is up to them. The tour should be able to survive without them. The sport is too top heavy. Some of that is sponsor driven I'm sure. Not I'm anxious to see her go because she is an amazing player, but when Walsh retires, it should be a HUGE opportunity for the AVP to start selling the product as a whole instead of individual players. To a much lesser extent Rogers and Dalhausser, too. Yes, they need to market the individual players and make them known so the fans can come and root for someone, but it should be the AVP tour. Right now, it seems like it is the AVP tour featuring Kerri Walsh. I think the trouble with that is not that the casual fans won't come, I think (other than Kerri) they come for the event. Its the hardcore fans. Take the top 3 teams from each gender out and honestly it looks a little too much like an EEVB event. Do I want to watch Carambula/Slick play Crabb/Allen to get into the final? Maybe on the AVP stream but I am not driving to the beach and sitting there for four hours for that payoff. Now that I have been thinking about it due to this thread, I think one of the major underrated effects of the rule changes on the game is how it has changed who the dominant players are and by doing so the image of the sport. Here is a comparison (obviously shaded by how old I was when both groups of players played). This is the top 10 in 1991 with their counterparts in 2014 1. Randy Stoklos - Gibb 1 Sinjin Smith - Patterson 3 Karch Kiraly - Hyden 4 Brent Frohoff - Bourne 5 Tim Hovland - Lucena 6 Kent Steffes - Doherty 7 Mike Dodd - Mayer 8 Dan Vrebalovich -Keenan 9 John Hanley - Rogers 10 Ricci Luyties - Brunner In terms of personality, appearance, general cool, which group of players would you pick. The 1991 guys, John Hanley's neck hair and Mike Dodd aside, could be a group of catalogue models selling beach lifestyle products. The current guys its a little different. Assume they are sitting around a bonfire (and so you didn't see how tall they were) drinking beer at Mission Beach. Now assume a bunch of computer engineers were 100 ft down the beach doing the same. What would separate one group from the other if you weren't a volleyball fan? Is that all the fault of the rules? Of course not. But its a large part. Have to disagree on a couple here. 1. Randy Stoklos - Gibb Nope. Phil (who you left off the list) Randy was the best blocker/setter, so is Phil. Neither have Stokey's persona though. 1 Sinjin Smith - Patterson Yep, of course Adrian would also work. 3 Karch Kiraly - Hyden Yep 4 Brent Frohoff - Bourne Yeah 5 Tim Hovland - Lucena Yep 6 Kent Steffes - Doherty I'd probably go with Todd here, both pretty boring and super successful (I'd but Doherty with Pat Powers, everyone expected more) 7 Mike Dodd - Mayer Yep 8 Dan Vrebalovich -Keenan Ok 9 John Hanley - Rogers Ty Tramblie 10 Ricci Luyties - Brunner
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Post by klazk on Feb 10, 2015 12:50:28 GMT -5
JB Southpaw - he just took the top 10 finishers in points and listed them (I think). Phil and Sean weren't on the list because they missed 3 events in 2014 and didn't finish in the top 10 in points.
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Post by guest2 on Feb 10, 2015 18:03:55 GMT -5
JB Southpaw - he just took the top 10 finishers in points and listed them (I think). Phil and Sean weren't on the list because they missed 3 events in 2014 and didn't finish in the top 10 in points. That is what I did. Phil is one of the top 10 players ever, but no one ever said to themselves, "If I was like Phil, girls would like me" or "I bet that dude is awesome to hang out with." Rosenthal to some extent harkens back to some of those old school guys. He has a little Ak/Fro vibe about him, but I think Sean is a good example of this. He is taken out of the game that people want to see by these behemoths. We want to see a guy like that destroying balls, not shooting to get by a lumbering giant.
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Post by johnbar on Feb 10, 2015 20:52:01 GMT -5
Right now, it seems like it is the AVP tour featuring Kerri Walsh. Or even the "Kerri Walsh Tour (featuring the AVP)". They really do need to develop other marketing angles.
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