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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 18:54:33 GMT -5
I don't know. I've never heard anything to the contrary. I guess I just trust Russ to never do anything to compromise the health of his players. However, she certainly PLAYED like she was healthy. Ebony didn't. Washington certainly looked a little gimpy in a few matches there toward the end (Nebraska, in particular). She was still in a big brace as well. I just thought your examples of Washington and Prieto (was Russ actually losing a rotation player there?) were interesting choices, and also that the decision is not so cut and dried as you're making it out to be. I mean, Elliot stated that Dalton wasn't healthy enough to play a full match and now needs her 7 zillionth surgery - and he still played her every day. Well, I didn't see Washington's first few matches after she came back, but she certainly couldn't have been in game shape yet. Also, it's not uncommon for injured players to wear a brace for a while after they return to playing. It may be one of those "It'll be sore for a while but it won't cause further injury" kind of things or it might have been for peace of mind, like a security blanket. I don't know. I just trust Russ not to endanger any of his players, like your example of Elliot and mine of Haley.
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Post by c4ndlelight on Apr 12, 2015 19:02:18 GMT -5
Washington certainly looked a little gimpy in a few matches there toward the end (Nebraska, in particular). She was still in a big brace as well. I just thought your examples of Washington and Prieto (was Russ actually losing a rotation player there?) were interesting choices, and also that the decision is not so cut and dried as you're making it out to be. I mean, Elliot stated that Dalton wasn't healthy enough to play a full match and now needs her 7 zillionth surgery - and he still played her every day. Well, I didn't see Washington's first few matches after she came back, but she certainly couldn't have been in game shape yet. Also, it's not uncommon for injured players to wear a brace for a while after they return to playing. It may be one of those "It'll be sore for a while but it won't cause further injury" kind of things or it might have been for peace of mind, like a security blanket. I don't know. I just trust Russ not to endanger any of his players, like your example of Elliot and mine of Haley. And Nwanebu playing for USC wasn't judged to cause further injury (and it didn't). You seem to forget the injuries at hand didn't happen in Mick's gym, but in Karch's.
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 19:07:37 GMT -5
Was Washington healthy for the last part of the season? Doctors and athletic trainers make PLAYING DECISIONS (and practice decisions) BEFORE a coach gets to make theirs. If the doctor and trainers don't clear a player they won't play anywhere. Period. Most likely she was cleared to participate "as tolerated", leaving it UP TO THE PLAYER. You are wrong. Doctors only "clear a player to play." Just because a doctor "clears a player to play" the coach is not OBLIGATED to play her. The coach makes the PLAYING decision. There are a lot of factors a coach must consider before allowing a player to play, including discussions with the doctor, trainer and player. Other factors probably include: the nature of the injury, how late in the season it is, the value to the team (and player) of redshirting and thus saving a year of eligability, etc. Maybe even a coach's "gut feeling" based on many year's of experience.
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 19:11:25 GMT -5
Well, I didn't see Washington's first few matches after she came back, but she certainly couldn't have been in game shape yet. Also, it's not uncommon for injured players to wear a brace for a while after they return to playing. It may be one of those "It'll be sore for a while but it won't cause further injury" kind of things or it might have been for peace of mind, like a security blanket. I don't know. I just trust Russ not to endanger any of his players, like your example of Elliot and mine of Haley. And Nwanebu playing for USC wasn't judged to cause further injury (and it didn't). You seem to forget the injuries at hand didn't happen in Mick's gym, but in Karch's. Where the injury happened is irrelevant. It may have been just luck that Ebony wasn't reinjured. Neither you nor I know that. The fact that she was playing so poorly was evidence that she needed to rest the overuse injury, which is, by the way, the proper treatment.
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Post by trollhunter on Apr 12, 2015 19:51:24 GMT -5
Doctors and athletic trainers make PLAYING DECISIONS (and practice decisions) BEFORE a coach gets to make theirs. If the doctor and trainers don't clear a player they won't play anywhere. Period. Most likely she was cleared to participate "as tolerated", leaving it UP TO THE PLAYER. You are wrong. Doctors only "clear a player to play." Just because a doctor "clears a player to play" the coach is not OBLIGATED to play her. The coach makes the PLAYING decision. There are a lot of factors a coach must consider before allowing a player to play, including discussions with the doctor, trainer and player. Other factors probably include: the nature of the injury, how late in the season it is, the value to the team (and player) of redshirting and thus saving a year of eligability, etc. Maybe even a coach's "gut feeling" based on many year's of experience. Exactly my point. So are you saying these discussions did not happen in her case? Or just wild conjecture to bash Mick?
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Post by trollhunter on Apr 12, 2015 19:54:12 GMT -5
And Nwanebu playing for USC wasn't judged to cause further injury (and it didn't). You seem to forget the injuries at hand didn't happen in Mick's gym, but in Karch's. Where the injury happened is irrelevant. It may have been just luck that Ebony wasn't reinjured. Neither you nor I know that. The fact that she was playing so poorly was evidence that she needed to rest the overuse injury, which is, by the way, the proper treatment. LMAO. Are you pretending to be a doctor now? And we are supposed to believe you know better than her doctors, athletic trainers, and coaches? If you have some inside knowledge on the subject I'd love to hear it, but it just seems you have an axe to grind with Mick.
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Post by wishinwestcoastvb on Apr 12, 2015 20:44:52 GMT -5
I really wish she could've red shirted last season and I thought she should've. She wrote a great article and it should teach many people about taking care of themselves when they are injured. I hope she gets even better than her old form and can't wait to see her back out on the court full power.
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Post by VBCOACH on Apr 12, 2015 21:13:14 GMT -5
You are wrong. Doctors only "clear a player to play." Just because a doctor "clears a player to play" the coach is not OBLIGATED to play her. The coach makes the PLAYING decision. There are a lot of factors a coach must consider before allowing a player to play, including discussions with the doctor, trainer and player. Other factors probably include: the nature of the injury, how late in the season it is, the value to the team (and player) of redshirting and thus saving a year of eligability, etc. Maybe even a coach's "gut feeling" based on many year's of experience. Exactly my point. So are you saying these discussions did not happen in her case? Or just wild conjecture to bash Mick? OK, you got me. I don't give a damn about Ebony. I just wanted to bash Mick.
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Post by elevationvb on Apr 12, 2015 21:25:29 GMT -5
Exactly my point. So are you saying these discussions did not happen in her case? Or just wild conjecture to bash Mick? OK, you got me. I don't give a damn about Ebony. I just wanted to bash Mick.
You have come across that way. The process for medically evaluating and clearing players has been explained and you refuse to listen.
My guess and it's a guess is that the player would be very disappointed you took what she wrote as an opportunity to bash her coach.
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Post by volleyguy on Apr 12, 2015 23:16:58 GMT -5
OK, you got me. I don't give a damn about Ebony. I just wanted to bash Mick.
You have come across that way. The process for medically evaluating and clearing players has been explained and you refuse to listen.
My guess and it's a guess is that the player would be very disappointed you took what she wrote as an opportunity to bash her coach.it's actually a little more complicated than simply deferring to a doctor's assessment. Some injuries--and the one described in the article may be one of those--may not be able to be so clearly diagnosed as to determine whether the athlete can or cannot play. Very often it is athletic trainers (the physical therapy kind) who are called upon by the coach to evaluate, or provide advice about, an athlete's ability to play (There is plenty of room for negotiation or even pressure from coaches in this respect.) Lastly, one of the implied points of the article seems to be that athletes themselves may ignore, under-estimate or even conceal the true extent of the pain and injury from themselves, their coach, trainer or doctor.
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Post by gigibear on Apr 13, 2015 15:53:57 GMT -5
Great article.
Some stress fractures heal and the area becomes stronger. I respect her work ethic and winning spirit, but am glad she now knows when to say "enough" especially if she wants that body to do stuff on the national level. The decision to play D1 versus other divisions has its price... one of them being significantly less down time. Practice for hours, in the gym for hours.... That is also a discussion players and parents need to have.
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Post by elevationvb on Apr 16, 2015 13:01:44 GMT -5
Paul George of the Indiana Pacers recently returned to the court after suffering a serious broken leg injury late last summer.
Why did he do this? There was only a week or two left in the season. The Pacers were fighting for the last playoff spot. Last night he hurt his other leg, hopefully not serious.
I'm sure the doctors cleared George to play and the coach certainly relied on the expertise and advice of the team's medical staff.
But why rush back from a serious broken leg just 7 or 8 months after the injury? Seems like a no brainer he would continue to rehab and be fully ready for the '15/'16 season.
My guess is the answer is in Ebony Nwanebu's story.
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Post by bball on May 29, 2015 6:42:06 GMT -5
how will Ebony be in 2015? What's the status of her injury?
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Post by 30killspergame on May 29, 2015 8:17:02 GMT -5
how will Ebony be in 2015? What's the status of her injury? She will be fine.. Her struggles have less to do with her injury but rather how bad USC was this year without the great libero and overall passing and just overall play..
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Post by dorothymantooth on May 29, 2015 8:58:26 GMT -5
Doctors and athletic trainers make PLAYING DECISIONS (and practice decisions) BEFORE a coach gets to make theirs. If the doctor and trainers don't clear a player they won't play anywhere. Period. Most likely she was cleared to participate "as tolerated", leaving it UP TO THE PLAYER. You are wrong. Doctors only "clear a player to play." Just because a doctor "clears a player to play" the coach is not OBLIGATED to play her. The coach makes the PLAYING decision. There are a lot of factors a coach must consider before allowing a player to play, including discussions with the doctor, trainer and player. Other factors probably include: the nature of the injury, how late in the season it is, the value to the team (and player) of redshirting and thus saving a year of eligability, etc. Maybe even a coach's "gut feeling" based on many year's of experience. As a coach, and someone who cares about the well being of players, I think it would be crazy to not release a player to play once the PROFESSIONAL MEDICAL DOCTORS WITH YEARS OF EXPERIENCE AND EXPERTISE say she is clear (safe) to play. If more rest would be required, they would tell you that.
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