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Post by johnbar on Jul 17, 2015 21:04:20 GMT -5
Klazk: Yeah, I can see that. Though even with two slots, it could still be a fecal tornado.
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Post by kc8413 on Jul 18, 2015 10:12:09 GMT -5
I can't imagine USAV NOT finding a way to let a healthy-by-Rio Kerri play. She's just too famous. I remember Michelle Kwon getting a special injury dispensation. Maybe award 1 slot via FIVB points and give out the 2nd based on an as-late-as-possible qualifier tournament (plus they could televise that). Someone will make something happen - and if it's controversial - great for ratings!!!!! Michelle kwan did but she ultimately withdrew before the competition started b/c she wasn't healthy enough to give it her all. This really opens up the fight for the 2 spots in Rio. I wonder when players realize how open the field is and switch over. For example, Hildebrand is most likely not going to make it on the indoor team. Why not try the beach? Her husband is the coach of Casey Patterson and Jake Gibb. I'm sure he will have some good pointers for her.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 18, 2015 10:59:39 GMT -5
If you're looking for parallels in figure skating, there was also the whole Nancy Kerrigan/Tonya Harding thing. Kerrigan was unable to compete in the US National competition, but they gave her a spot on the Olympic team (and she got silver in a controversial finish). Not sure its a good analogy, though. And, somehow, it feels different when you are talking about a team (even though its only two) than when its an individual.
Kristin Hildebrand moving to beach is an interesting idea. She's a good all-around player. However, it is way too late to start the transition to beach and think about making it to Rio that way.
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Post by klazk on Jul 18, 2015 12:24:21 GMT -5
There are a number of issues. First is that the 12 event rule is a FIVB rule, not a US one. So the exemption would have to come from FIVB, not a theoretical "selection committee" (which I don't think technically exists). Second, the US would have to have two quota spots earned. Which means two teams not named Walsh/Ross would have to finish top 15 in FIVB Olympic Rankings or the US has to get a spot through a continental cup. Neither of those are close to a given at this point. Sorry, Klazk, I am still confused. First, does the 12-event rule apply to the team that earns the Olympic spot, or the team that goes to the Olympics; or both? (This is sort of reiterating my earlier question.) Your statement seems to imply the second or third. Secondly, I don't understand your statement about having to earn two spots. Are you saying that if a country only earns one Olympic berth, it has to go to the team that earned it? The national organization has no say in that case? So, I'm working with 2 sources here. If someone know of a better one, please let me know. FIVB fact sheet on qualification: www.fivb.org/2014-02%20-%20Rio%202016%20-%20Qualification%20System%20-%20FINAL%20-%20Beach%20Volleyball%20-%20EN.pdfFIVB 2015 sports regulations, Chapter 2.4 (starts on page 19) www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Document/FIVB-Sport-Regulations_BVB_2015_v12.pdfThere are 2 hurdles to clear. #1, your federal has to have earned a quota spot (or two). The ways for earning a quota spot include World Championships winner, host country, FIVB Olympic Rankings and Continental Cup. The first 2 are out for the US at this point, so FIVB Olympic Rankings and Continental Cup are the only avenues left. The 12 events per team is necessary to be eligible for the Olympic Ranking spot. That is where the references to 12 events for a specific team (in this case Walsh/Ross) comes into play. So far they have played in 4. So they need 8 more. If Kerri can avoid surgery and play some more in 2015, they should be able to get to the 12. But if she had surgery and didn't come back until 2016, they would be at the mercy of FIVB scheduling. If the scheduling is similar to 2015, there would be 6 events before the qualification period ended. If it is similar to 2012, there would be seven. So there is no real precedent for the 8 additional tournaments they would need. Once your federation has earned entry spots, there are still rules for which athletes/teams can fill those spots, even if you want to award them to a team that did not earn them. #1 - an athlete has to have participated in at least 12 FIVB events (as an individual - does not have to be with same partner). This includes World Tour events, the NORCECA finals and the Continental Cup events. So with the continental cup events, there is a chance to get in another event or two. #2 - If a federation earned its spot through Olympic Rankings (but not continental cup) the athletes has to be chosen to represent the federation have to members of one of the top 6 eligible pairs in the Olympic Rankings. So, without an exemption, if the US earns spots through Olympic Rankings, Walsh would have to get in 12 events and be part of one of the top six pairs of teams. If the US gets a spot through Continental Cup, there would be a little more leeway, but I still believe she would have to have participated in at least 12 events as an individual (including World Tour, NORCECA final and Continental Cup). Bottom line is that if she wants a realistic shot, she has to get in at least 2 more tournaments this year (with Ross). I have no clue the details of figure skating or any other qualification system. But it does look to me like it is more serious than the US issuing an exemption. I believe it would have to come from FIVB.
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Post by wang pu on Jul 18, 2015 13:02:03 GMT -5
Sorry, Klazk, I am still confused. First, does the 12-event rule apply to the team that earns the Olympic spot, or the team that goes to the Olympics; or both? (This is sort of reiterating my earlier question.) Your statement seems to imply the second or third. Secondly, I don't understand your statement about having to earn two spots. Are you saying that if a country only earns one Olympic berth, it has to go to the team that earned it? The national organization has no say in that case? So, I'm working with 2 sources here. If someone know of a better one, please let me know. FIVB fact sheet on qualification: www.fivb.org/2014-02%20-%20Rio%202016%20-%20Qualification%20System%20-%20FINAL%20-%20Beach%20Volleyball%20-%20EN.pdfFIVB 2015 sports regulations, Chapter 2.4 (starts on page 19) www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Document/FIVB-Sport-Regulations_BVB_2015_v12.pdfThere are 2 hurdles to clear. #1, your federal has to have earned a quota spot (or two). The ways for earning a quota spot include World Championships winner, host country, FIVB Olympic Rankings and Continental Cup. The first 2 are out for the US at this point, so FIVB Olympic Rankings and Continental Cup are the only avenues left. The 12 events per team is necessary to be eligible for the Olympic Ranking spot. That is where the references to 12 events for a specific team (in this case Walsh/Ross) comes into play. So far they have played in 4. So they need 8 more. If Kerri can avoid surgery and play some more in 2015, they should be able to get to the 12. But if she had surgery and didn't come back until 2016, they would be at the mercy of FIVB scheduling. If the scheduling is similar to 2015, there would be 6 events before the qualification period ended. If it is similar to 2012, there would be seven. So there is no real precedent for the 8 additional tournaments they would need. Once your federation has earned entry spots, there are still rules for which athletes/teams can fill those spots, even if you want to award them to a team that did not earn them. #1 - an athlete has to have participated in at least 12 FIVB events (as an individual - does not have to be with same partner). This includes World Tour events, the NORCECA finals and the Continental Cup events. So with the continental cup events, there is a chance to get in another event or two. #2 - If a federation earned its spot through Olympic Rankings (but not continental cup) the athletes has to be chosen to represent the federation have to members of one of the top 6 eligible pairs in the Olympic Rankings. So, without an exemption, if the US earns spots through Olympic Rankings, Walsh would have to get in 12 events and be part of one of the top six pairs of teams. If the US gets a spot through Continental Cup, there would be a little more leeway, but I still believe she would have to have participated in at least 12 events as an individual (including World Tour, NORCECA final and Continental Cup). Bottom line is that if she wants a realistic shot, she has to get in at least 2 more tournaments this year (with Ross). I have no clue the details of figure skating or any other qualification system. But it does look to me like it is more serious than the US issuing an exemption. I believe it would have to come from FIVB. I think a primary difference between beach vb and figure skating/gymnastics is that figure skating/gymnastics has a National Championship and/or Olympic Trials competition. From those competitions a committee chooses the best athletes to form the team. In gymnastics it gets even more difficult as they are forming a team to fill specific needs on various events.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 18, 2015 19:56:29 GMT -5
Thanks Klazk!
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Post by trollhunter on Jul 18, 2015 20:38:41 GMT -5
Sorry, Klazk, I am still confused. First, does the 12-event rule apply to the team that earns the Olympic spot, or the team that goes to the Olympics; or both? (This is sort of reiterating my earlier question.) Your statement seems to imply the second or third. Secondly, I don't understand your statement about having to earn two spots. Are you saying that if a country only earns one Olympic berth, it has to go to the team that earned it? The national organization has no say in that case? So, I'm working with 2 sources here. If someone know of a better one, please let me know. FIVB fact sheet on qualification: www.fivb.org/2014-02%20-%20Rio%202016%20-%20Qualification%20System%20-%20FINAL%20-%20Beach%20Volleyball%20-%20EN.pdfFIVB 2015 sports regulations, Chapter 2.4 (starts on page 19) www.fivb.org/EN/BeachVolleyball/Document/FIVB-Sport-Regulations_BVB_2015_v12.pdfThere are 2 hurdles to clear. #1, your federal has to have earned a quota spot (or two). The ways for earning a quota spot include World Championships winner, host country, FIVB Olympic Rankings and Continental Cup. The first 2 are out for the US at this point, so FIVB Olympic Rankings and Continental Cup are the only avenues left. The 12 events per team is necessary to be eligible for the Olympic Ranking spot. That is where the references to 12 events for a specific team (in this case Walsh/Ross) comes into play. So far they have played in 4. So they need 8 more. If Kerri can avoid surgery and play some more in 2015, they should be able to get to the 12. But if she had surgery and didn't come back until 2016, they would be at the mercy of FIVB scheduling. If the scheduling is similar to 2015, there would be 6 events before the qualification period ended. If it is similar to 2012, there would be seven. So there is no real precedent for the 8 additional tournaments they would need. Once your federation has earned entry spots, there are still rules for which athletes/teams can fill those spots, even if you want to award them to a team that did not earn them. #1 - an athlete has to have participated in at least 12 FIVB events (as an individual - does not have to be with same partner). This includes World Tour events, the NORCECA finals and the Continental Cup events. So with the continental cup events, there is a chance to get in another event or two. #2 - If a federation earned its spot through Olympic Rankings (but not continental cup) the athletes has to be chosen to represent the federation have to members of one of the top 6 eligible pairs in the Olympic Rankings. So, without an exemption, if the US earns spots through Olympic Rankings, Walsh would have to get in 12 events and be part of one of the top six pairs of teams. If the US gets a spot through Continental Cup, there would be a little more leeway, but I still believe she would have to have participated in at least 12 events as an individual (including World Tour, NORCECA final and Continental Cup). Bottom line is that if she wants a realistic shot, she has to get in at least 2 more tournaments this year (with Ross). I have no clue the details of figure skating or any other qualification system. But it does look to me like it is more serious than the US issuing an exemption. I believe it would have to come from FIVB. Klaz, I think you are mostly right. But I don't think her other two tournaments this year have to be with Ross, do they? And while I'm not sure of the definition of "participate", could Walsh enter a tournament (with someone else) and then default during first match in a couple events to make the minimum?
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Post by klazk on Jul 18, 2015 20:58:59 GMT -5
I think you are mostly right. But I don't think her other two tournaments this year have to be with Ross, do they? And while I'm not sure of the definition of "participate", could Walsh enter a tournament (with someone else) and then default during first match in a couple events to make the minimum? If the berth(s) are earned through the Olympic Rankings, then it would have to be with Ross because to be eligible Walsh would have to be part of one of the top 6 US teams in the Olympic Rankings. To be an eligible team, you have to have played 12 events together. As for the registering and then forfeiting and taking a 25th or two, I guess that is hypothetically possible. But they would actually have to go to the site and attend the technical meeting. Would also hurt seed and entry points in the future.
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Post by johnbar on Jul 20, 2015 16:06:52 GMT -5
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