|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 21, 2004 7:08:30 GMT -5
The Karpol method does sound out of date. It certainly doesn't seem to work anymore - given that Karpol can select and work on players from quite a young age, and then can keep them together in a club side even when they are not on international duty, Russia should be doing a lot better. Interesting that the men's team seems to be using the same approach to winning at the international level - the average height of their starters at the recent European Olympic qualifier was 2.06m, or 6'9". They certainly block, attack and serve very well, but I still think that a team with excellent ball control and a fast offence (such as Brazil or Serbia) will beat them. Agreed! Russia should be doing a LOT better. I think part of the problem is that Russia no longer has the vast pool of players to choose from like they did before and neither does Karpol have the kind of control and command he did over the girls in the past. I am not very familiar with their men's team but I can see this kind of play being more effective in men's game where power is more of a factor... |
|
|
|
Post by foreignball on Jan 21, 2004 10:31:21 GMT -5
In addition, since Kirillova quit ..... Do you know is she still playing and if so is she the same person shown on Perugia’s team list? |
|
|
|
Post by USAFAN on Jan 21, 2004 11:00:20 GMT -5
While I do think that aspects of the Russian game need to be improved and modernized I find it a little interesting how people are making it sound like Russia's days at the top are over and that they have plummetted in the rankings. While their high ball method and not so superb backrow skills may not have been clicking so well they are still a HUGE threat. If they have gotten their stuff together by this next qualifier and make it to the Olympics, they are still in my mind a threat to take the gold. A team with Titchenko, Gamova, Belikova, and Artamanova is quite a formidble one. One thing about Karpol that I will totally agree with is the lack of weight training being ridiculous. With all the information that athletes have on the benefit of strength training either to improve power and strength or to prevent injury is tremendous. However, i am not so sure if I want to see a 6'9'' Gamova who is powerful and explosive and has a lot of bulk to her,  that could cause a lot of problems. |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 21, 2004 13:30:24 GMT -5
While I do think that aspects of the Russian game need to be improved and modernized I find it a little interesting how people are making it sound like Russia's days at the top are over and that they have plummetted in the rankings. While their high ball method and not so superb backrow skills may not have been clicking so well they are still a HUGE threat. If they have gotten their stuff together by this next qualifier and make it to the Olympics, they are still in my mind a threat to take the gold. A team with Titchenko, Gamova, Belikova, and Artamanova is quite a formidble one. One thing about Karpol that I will totally agree with is the lack of weight training being ridiculous. With all the information that athletes have on the benefit of strength training either to improve power and strength or to prevent injury is tremendous. However, i am not so sure if I want to see a 6'9'' Gamova who is powerful and explosive and has a lot of bulk to her, that could cause a lot of problems. I agree that they are still a huge threat however I really think that their dominance of before is over, partly because the other teams are getting better and because they do not have the same kind of talent they did before. All the players you mention are very formidable players. They are also all in their mid to late 20s and some bothered by injuries. They do not have many players coming from the junior ranks either. That is the main reason I think they will not have the impact they had before any more... |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 21, 2004 13:32:44 GMT -5
Do you know is she still playing and if so is she the same person shown on Perugia’s team list? I believe she's not playing... She did play a few games for perugia but quit then. She told them she'd be available in case they need her though... |
|
|
|
Post by brybry on Jan 21, 2004 14:23:39 GMT -5
I agree that they are still a huge threat however I really think that their dominance of before is over, partly because the other teams are getting better and because they do not have the same kind of talent they did before. All the players you mention are very formidable players. They are also all in their mid to late 20s and some bothered by injuries. They do not have many players coming from the junior ranks either. That is the main reason I think they will not have the impact they had before any more... Hmm, interesting. This reminds me of when Leila from the old board predicted Cuba would go way down hill after the 2000 Olympics. Sisam6, which countries do you see doing really well in the future due to their talent at the junior level? Brazil, China, USA? |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 21, 2004 14:32:19 GMT -5
Hmm, interesting. This reminds me of when Leila from the old board predicted Cuba would go way down hill after the 2000 Olympics. Sisam6, which countries do you see doing really well in the future due to their talent at the junior level? Brazil, China, USA? I do not know anything about that and I dont see Cuba going downhill at any time soon. They go thru stages... I do not know much about the youth scene outside Europe (but I know CHN and CUB are always there). I follow the youth competition in Europe some and I can tell you that the teams that are going well in Europe right now are the teams that were successfull in youth competition a few years ago... Thanks to the NCAA system, Team USA always has a great pool of players to choose from so they will always be up there. Don't know much about Brazil so I can really comment. But in short look for things to change in Europe... Well again this is my opinion time will show whether i'm right ot not... |
|
|
|
Post by foreignball on Jan 21, 2004 22:56:14 GMT -5
I believe she's not playing... She did play a few games for perugia but quit then. She told them she'd be available in case they need her though... Basically you are saying she’s the same person. I asked about that because Perugia’s website lists her as a Croatian! It’s kind of interesting how many former Russian players are playing now for other countries or can do it at any time. Just out of the top of my head I can name: O. Kulakova – CRO, E. Chebukina – GER, now Kirillova is from CRO, Kilic has Turkish citizenship and there is even a player in Peruvian NT whose name is Natalia Romanova. I’m sure she’s Russian too. Most probably there are others that I haven’t heard about. |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 22, 2004 1:15:13 GMT -5
Basically you are saying she’s the same person. I asked about that because Perugia’s website lists her as a Croatian! It’s kind of interesting how many former Russian players are playing now for other countries or can do it at any time. Just out of the top of my head I can name: O. Kulakova – CRO, E. Chebukina – GER, now Kirillova is from CRO, Kilic has Turkish citizenship and there is even a player in Peruvian NT whose name is Natalia Romanova. I’m sure she’s Russian too. Most probably there are others that I haven’t heard about. Yes that's what I mean Actually Kirillova was the first one to defect to Croatia. The rest followed her (Chebukina, Likhstenstein, Sidorenko to name a few). Some of these players went with Karpol's blessing some not... You got the nationalities switched.  Kulakova plays for GER (she's from Kazakhstan or sthg), Chebukina for CRO. Also Hanikoglu is former Natalia Shiguina of Russia and Donets of NED is also a USSR-origin player... Part of the reason for this is that they had such a pool of talent to choose from in the past that quite a few quality players (who would have started for any other team) did not even make it to the roster. The other part is Karpol himself... |
|
|
|
Post by doctordubya on Jan 22, 2004 4:53:24 GMT -5
I do not know anything about that and I dont see Cuba going downhill at any time soon. They go thru stages... In both the men's and women's game, Cuba take a bunch of super-athletic young players and then train them up to be stars. It wouldn't surprise me if the current women's team were to win the Olympics in 2008, although I don't think we'll see a team as dominant as the Cuban women of the 90s due to the strength of China, USA and the European teams. The men's team really missed out due to the defection of most of their stars to the Italian leagues in 2002. A team of the Hernandez brothers, Roca, Marshall, Dennis and Pimienta could have been world-beaters at Athens. As it is, the men's team is now in the same position as their women, retooling with a group of young athletes and looking beyond 2004. |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 22, 2004 5:11:24 GMT -5
In both the men's and women's game, Cuba take a bunch of super-athletic young players and then train them up to be stars. It wouldn't surprise me if the current women's team were to win the Olympics in 2008, although I don't think we'll see a team as dominant as the Cuban women of the 90s due to the strength of China, USA and the European teams. The current Cuba women's team came to Turkey for camp in 2002. I'd seen them play then. I saw them play WCH last year and WC this year. They have been improving steadily since then. Not sure if they will be good enough by the time Olympics roll around, but I certainly would not rule them out. They will again be one of the favs out there... |
|
|
|
Post by foreignball on Jan 22, 2004 10:35:23 GMT -5
Also Hanikoglu is former Natalia Shiguina of Russia and Donets of NED is also a USSR-origin player... quote] For some reason I thought she was from Ukraine. My bad. BTW it looks like Turkey attracts them a lot. |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 22, 2004 10:49:31 GMT -5
Also Hanikoglu is former Natalia Shiguina of Russia and Donets of NED is also a USSR-origin player... quote] For some reason I thought she was from Ukraine. My bad. BTW it looks like Turkey attracts them a lot. Nope she's russian, from Moscow... Turkey does attract a lot of Russian and other former eastern block vb players. This is partly because it is closer for them home and the pay is good. Clubs prefer them since they come cheaper than other countries' players of same caliber and can adapt without many problems. (artamonova being the exception. she never liked it in istanbul) |
|
|
|
Post by foreignball on Jan 22, 2004 11:31:50 GMT -5
Clubs prefer them since they come cheaper than other countries' players of same caliber and can adapt without many problems. That explains only clubs side of the question. A look at their family names implies another factor is also involved. Are Turkish guys that hot? ;D |
|
|
|
Post by sIsam on Jan 22, 2004 12:07:04 GMT -5
That explains only clubs side of the question. A look at their family names implies another factor is also involved. Are Turkish guys that hot? ;D Maybe it's the other way around that our men find the russian girls hot They are usually married to coaches or other vb players... Well some of these girls get married in order to obtain citizenship and then get divorced quietly. Hanikoglu and Kilic are not such cases though... |
|
that could cause a lot of problems.
Kulakova plays for GER (she's from Kazakhstan or sthg), Chebukina for CRO. Also Hanikoglu is former Natalia Shiguina of Russia and Donets of NED is also a USSR-origin player...