bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Nov 10, 2015 13:54:16 GMT -5
I prefer Hawaii not play the RPI game. I don't think much changes for Hawaii moving forward. Hawaii is not going to give up its preconference tournaments chasing phantom RPI boosters, that's a terrible trade off. IF Hawaii won against UCLA, what would have their RPI been? Would it have matter? Yes - it could have mattered. RPI Futures shows Hawaii finishing #24 if they win their remaining 4 matches. If I switch the loss to UCLA to a win - this would move Hawaii up to #20 - then add the bonus points for a top 25 win and they would come in at #17 with Arkansas State #16. The fact that the top 25 win moves Hawaii up 3 spots shows how close #16 to 22 is right now. That #17 finish would be highly dependent on how the teams around that area finish the season (Missouri, Louisville, Illinois, Iowa State, etc..).
Hawaii is very unlikely to be sent to Kansas, Kentucky, or Louisville (if they get a seed) - as those schools will have too many schools within 400 miles. Depending on who is in the tournament - Texas A&M could be a possibility besides the likely Washington/BYU choices?
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Post by frustratedsetter on Nov 10, 2015 13:58:35 GMT -5
IF Hawaii won against UCLA, what would have their RPI been? Would it have matter? Yes - it could have mattered. RPI Futures shows Hawaii finishing #24 if they win their remaining 4 matches. If I switch the loss to UCLA to a win - this would move Hawaii up to #20 - then add the bonus points for a top 25 win and they would come in at #17 with Arkansas State #16. The fact that the top 25 win moves Hawaii up 3 spots shows how close #16 to 22 is right now. That #17 finish would be highly dependent on how the teams around that area finish the season (Missouri, Louisville, Illinois, Iowa State, etc..).
Hawaii is very unlikely to be sent to Kansas, Kentucky, or Louisville (if they get a seed) - as those schools will have too many schools within 400 miles. Depending on who is in the tournament - Texas A&M could be a possibility besides the likely Washington/BYU choices?
I call BS on this mileage restrictions. I know people have pointed out that another 3 hours in flight time should not matter. It is unfair to Hawai'i and the Cali Schools to always be going up against each other on the second round. |
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 10, 2015 13:59:42 GMT -5
Kind of a cruel joke if they send the #14 pablo team (Hawaii) to the home court of the #1 pablo team (Washington) yet again -- but I wouldn't be surprised at all.
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Post by vbprisoner on Nov 10, 2015 14:00:14 GMT -5
The last place I want to see Hawaii is in the state of Texas!
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Post by redbeard2008 on Nov 10, 2015 16:00:34 GMT -5
The last place I want to see Hawaii is in the state of Texas! Depends on how many subregionals there are in Texas and how many drive-ins are available: If just Texas, then no; if also Texas A&M, then I don't know. How many likely drive-ins are within 400 miles of Texas A&M? Personally, I'd like the Committee to have a stronger mandate to balance competition and travel costs. But what's to say that's not a factor in why they've been sent to Seattle three out of the last six years - Washington, in the Far Corner, with its own scheduling issues, can also get bonked by RPI. |
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Nov 10, 2015 17:33:38 GMT -5
The last place I want to see Hawaii is in the state of Texas! Depends on how many subregionals there are in Texas and how many drive-ins are available: If just Texas, then no; if also Texas A&M, then I don't know. How many likely drive-ins are within 400 miles of Texas A&M? Personally, I'd like the Committee to have a stronger mandate to balance competition and travel costs. But what's to say that's not a factor in why they've been sent to Seattle three out of the last six years - Washington, in the Far Corner, with its own scheduling issues, can also get bonked by RPI. Drive-ins of Texas and Texas A&M (from what I can see) is pretty limited.
At Large - SMU and TCU - SMU probably gets in w/o winning their conference tournament, TCU has some work to make it. I don't see any other possible At-Large (Including conferences with multiple bids) schools within 400 miles.
Conference Champs: Texas A&M Corpus Christi could win the Southland and either Southern or Texas Southern could win the SWAC - but that is it, and those teams would have to win their conference tournament. If Texas A&M gets a seed - 1 or 2 teams are going to fly in to play them (North Carolina, Florida State, Michigan, Hawaii, Arizona/ASU, Colorado State, Arkansas State).
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Post by tomclen on Nov 10, 2015 17:36:37 GMT -5
I'm no statistician (I had to google the word just for spelling), but I think one of the problems we run into every single year with RPI and brackets involves the pre-conference matches.
Some teams schedule strong opponents; some (UW) schedule mostly cupcakes most years; some, somewhere in between.
But to me they carry too much importance. I think pre-conference should almost be considered like pre-season NFL football or baseball's grapefruit league. Not quite that diminished...they should mean something, but let's face it, most teams are juggling players; breaking in freshmen or sophomores who've never played regularly before; or figuring out line-ups...and they're all focused on getting ready for the conference battles.
Maybe someone could devise a better system of putting more, much more, weight on conference matches...and significantly downplay the importance of pre-conference matchups. Or maybe someone can explain to me that is already being sufficiently done.
It seems every year, we cling to these "UCLA beat Hawaii" in August" or "Washington beat Wisconsin" Labor Day weekend" stuff.
And I still maintain that at selection time, no team should be allowed to be seeded higher than a team that finished ahead of them in conference play. We've seen that before and, IMO, it defeats the whole purpose of having conference schedules....or maybe even having conferences, period.
(And don't get me started on Conference Tournaments where a team with a horrible record wins the conference tournament and makes the NCAA tournament. Was it 4 years ago when a team with more than 20 losses played Florida in round 1? There should be a loss-cutoff. You lose too many matches, you don't get in no matter what you do.)
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Post by bigdfromla on Nov 10, 2015 18:16:07 GMT -5
Conference tournaments are horrible. I hate them in volleyball and basketball. I don't care that they make money, if they even do.
Regular season champions should be rewarded by going to the NCAA Tournament, end of story!!!
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Post by mikegarrison on Nov 10, 2015 18:21:36 GMT -5
Conference tournaments are horrible. I hate them in volleyball and basketball. I don't care that they make money, if they even do. Regular season champions should be rewarded by going to the NCAA Tournament, end of story!!! It's generally not really about money (except for a few big conferences and only then for football and men's basketball). What you have to remember is that for most schools in most conferences, the conference tournament is really their only shot at "post-season play". |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Nov 10, 2015 19:40:08 GMT -5
Depends on how many subregionals there are in Texas and how many drive-ins are available: If just Texas, then no; if also Texas A&M, then I don't know. How many likely drive-ins are within 400 miles of Texas A&M? Personally, I'd like the Committee to have a stronger mandate to balance competition and travel costs. But what's to say that's not a factor in why they've been sent to Seattle three out of the last six years - Washington, in the Far Corner, with its own scheduling issues, can also get bonked by RPI. Drive-ins of Texas and Texas A&M (from what I can see) is pretty limited.
At Large - SMU and TCU - SMU probably gets in w/o winning their conference tournament, TCU has some work to make it. I don't see any other possible At-Large (Including conferences with multiple bids) schools within 400 miles.
Conference Champs: Texas A&M Corpus Christi could win the Southland and either Southern or Texas Southern could win the SWAC - but that is it, and those teams would have to win their conference tournament. If Texas A&M gets a seed - 1 or 2 teams are going to fly in to play them (North Carolina, Florida State, Michigan, Hawaii, Arizona/ASU, Colorado State, Arkansas State).
SMU Is the AAC Champion, if it hasnt already been decided it will be this week |
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Post by southie on Nov 10, 2015 20:05:25 GMT -5
Over the last decade, hasn't the norm been to send Hawaii to a site where there are non-stop flights available? If you look at sSeattle and Los Angeles, they fit the bill, and closest destinations other than maybe San Francisco / San Jose, Phoenix, and Salt Lake City.
I get the feeling Hawaii goes to Stanford this year.
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Post by volleyfan24 on Nov 10, 2015 20:38:42 GMT -5
Of likely seeds I think Hawaii is likely to land in one of these subregionals. USC, Washington, UCLA, Stanford or BYU.
If it is me I would like to see Hawaii in Provo, but I don't choose they will probably end up in a California school. I feel bad for whoever gets Hawaii they are definitely a tough out and a very strong opponent to be playing early in the tournament.
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Post by hapaguy on Nov 10, 2015 21:23:01 GMT -5
IF Hawaii won against UCLA, what would have their RPI been? Would it have matter? Yes - it could have mattered. RPI Futures shows Hawaii finishing #24 if they win their remaining 4 matches. If I switch the loss to UCLA to a win - this would move Hawaii up to #20 - then add the bonus points for a top 25 win and they would come in at #17 with Arkansas State #16. The fact that the top 25 win moves Hawaii up 3 spots shows how close #16 to 22 is right now. That #17 finish would be highly dependent on how the teams around that area finish the season (Missouri, Louisville, Illinois, Iowa State, etc..).
Hawaii is very unlikely to be sent to Kansas, Kentucky, or Louisville (if they get a seed) - as those schools will have too many schools within 400 miles. Depending on who is in the tournament - Texas A&M could be a possibility besides the likely Washington/BYU choices?
If Hawaii did beat UCLA and ran the table to end the season undefeated I'm curious to know what VT'ers think about how high Hawaii would be AVCA ranked (top 3?)and if your calculation is correct and they would have ended with an RPI of 17 (making them a bubble team to host?) would that be fair? In my mind this shows why the RPI system for seeding teams is a big fail.... |
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Post by tomclen on Nov 10, 2015 21:26:11 GMT -5
If If's and Buts were candies and nuts, we'd all have irritable bowel syndrome.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Nov 10, 2015 21:45:42 GMT -5
Over the last decade, hasn't the norm been to send Hawaii to a site where there are non-stop flights available? If you look at sSeattle and Los Angeles, they fit the bill, and closest destinations other than maybe San Francisco / San Jose, Phoenix, and Salt Lake City. I get the feeling Hawaii goes to Stanford this year. I can't remember how long ago, but Hawaii was sent to Pullman once |
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