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Post by chipNdink on Oct 11, 2004 17:13:44 GMT -5
... One could imagine that Ohio St could finish the season undefeated and still finish behind Minnesota, provided that Minnesota only lost to them. That's how important preseason expectations can be in the polls... Unlikely, since Ohio St. and Minnesota have to play each other again. If Ohio St. can beat Minnesota again, I doubt anyone would continue ranking Minnesota above Ohio State. I think Texas is being royally dis'ed in the rankings also.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2004 17:15:59 GMT -5
Here is an interesting fact: This is the first poll where a California school has not been in the top 5. Ever. Interesting only to me, I guess. ;D To continue, Agent B's point. I still say these polls should be about the pollster's opinions as to who are the best teams. The AVCA poll, after the pre-season poll, is all about rewards. For instance, how many AVCA voters actually think USC is the 6th best team in the nation? Very few, I'd bet. (In case you were wondering, they think they are much better than that.) Why not vote that way? Simple. It's all about rewards and punishments. I don't like it. All you're doing is trying to cover up the mistakes you made LAST week...
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Post by StuffU on Oct 11, 2004 17:16:18 GMT -5
Unlikely, since Ohio St. and Minnesota have to play each other again. If Ohio St. can beat Minnesota again, I doubt anyone would continue ranking Minnesota above Ohio State. I think Texas is being royally dis'ed in the rankings also. Why would you think that? St Mary's has two wins over Stanford and is still ranked below them ...
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 11, 2004 17:25:56 GMT -5
Why would you think that? St Mary's has two wins over Stanford and is still ranked below them ... He was talking about Ohio St. staying UNDEFEATED at the end of the season and still being ranked lower ..., but I agree with you that St. Mary deserves to be ranked higher than Stanford also.
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Post by GauchoDon on Oct 11, 2004 17:38:53 GMT -5
Interesting only to me, I guess. ;D I thought it was interesting too, just didn't want to post a simple: "That is interesting!" Yeah, but it's just too hard to figure out whether the loss is an anomaly or something more... if you go with the simple rewards and punishments it's much easier to just move from week to week, rather than really look at the 40 or 50 games and try and determine who played up to their potential and might be improving?
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Post by gatorattack on Oct 11, 2004 17:49:27 GMT -5
USC reminds me of the LA Lakers---they will be in the final 4.
Minnesotta plays great defense , they will be in the final 4.
Hawaii has a great coach and an athletic experienced setter and I believe they will make it to the Final 4 also.
Washington has an experienced team that has chemistry and knows how to win, they will be in the final 4.
Nebraska could take Hawaii's place according to the NCAA draws. They have no limits and with experience will dominate the next several years.
Unfortunately, Florida is looking more to the future years than this year (which is a mistake because Nebraska will be unbeatable the next several years) and will loose at least 1 match in the SEC. They will not make it to the final 4 because they do not have the experience or the team chemistry needed.
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Post by StuffU on Oct 11, 2004 17:53:18 GMT -5
USC reminds me of the LA Lakers---they will be in the final 4. Minnesotta plays great defense , they will be in the final 4. Hawaii has a great coach and an athletic experienced setter and I believe they will make it to the Final 4 also. Washington has an experienced team that has chemistry and knows how to win, they will be in the final 4. Nebraska could take Hawaii's place according to the NCAA draws. They have no limits and with experience will dominate the next several years. Unfortunately, Florida is looking more to the future years than this year (which is a mistake because Nebraska will be unbeatable the next several years) and will loose at least 1 match in the SEC. They will not make it to the final 4 because they do not have the experience or the team chemistry needed. Like most teams, I think Hawaii's chances of getting the Final Four will rely heavily on who is in their regional. I like Hawaii's chances against just about anyone with two exceptions. As long as Hawaii remains injury free *knocks on wood* and does not have Nebraska or USC in their region, I believe the Wahine will find a way back to the Final Four. I just don't believe that the Wahine have the right matchups to beat USC or Nebraska in the post season. Only time will tell though ....
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Post by bigfan on Oct 11, 2004 18:53:39 GMT -5
Easy. No bad wins and the magic bullet--they beat a Pac10 school. Swept the Bears. The whole poll has the Pac10 as its axis. Everyone else is just there to be compared to the Pac10. I think that the national champion will come from the Pac-10. Everyone else is fighting for table scraps.
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Post by The Bofa on the Sofa on Oct 11, 2004 22:01:27 GMT -5
Unlikely, since Ohio St. and Minnesota have to play each other again. If Ohio St. can beat Minnesota again, I doubt anyone would continue ranking Minnesota above Ohio State. But I made the caveat that Minnesota's only loss is to Ohio St. Consider the following: Washington loses to USC. Minnesota jumps to #1, Hawaii #2, Nebraska #3, USC #4, Washington#5. Minnesota and Ohio St have both beat Penn St, so Penn St drops to 10th. But Colorado St keeps winning. Going into the OSU/Minn match, OSU is 7th. OSU beats Minn but everyone else wins. Minnesota drops to 3rd, 4th at worst, OSU might jump over CSU, maybe Washington, but no way do they jump over USC. Therefore, the best coming out of it is Minnesota 4th and OSU 5th. Now, if Wash and USC don't play again before Minn/OSU, it is probably even tougher for OSU to move up. It's going to be hard for people to put them ahead of USC, even if they beat Minnesota. As Ruffda says, its about rewards and penalties. However, its more about penalties. Where were you last week? And did you lose? If so, drop a couple. Its much harder to move up than it is to drop.
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 11, 2004 22:18:06 GMT -5
But I made the caveat that Minnesota's only loss is to Ohio St. Consider the following: Washington loses to USC. Minnesota jumps to #1, Hawaii #2, Nebraska #3, USC #4, Washington#5. Minnesota and Ohio St have both beat Penn St, so Penn St drops to 10th. But Colorado St keeps winning. Going into the OSU/Minn match, OSU is 7th. OSU beats Minn but everyone else wins. Minnesota drops to 3rd, 4th at worst, OSU might jump over CSU, maybe Washington, but no way do they jump over USC. Therefore, the best coming out of it is Minnesota 4th and OSU 5th. Now, if Wash and USC don't play again before Minn/OSU, it is probably even tougher for OSU to move up. It's going to be hard for people to put them ahead of USC, even if they beat Minnesota.... I beg to differ. If OSU beats Penn St. (TWICE to remain UNDEFEATED), then OSU will be moved up higher than 7th. I would say at LEAST 4th, if not even higher. If Minnesota has one more loss (e.g. to OSU), then they have 3 losses just like USC. Since USC beat them earlier, it's not unreasonable to believe they will be dropped below USC. OSU might still not be ranked #1 if Hawaii remains undefeated, but they will surely be ranked above a Minnesota team with 3 losses.
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Post by ACE on Oct 11, 2004 22:22:43 GMT -5
Like most teams, I think Hawaii's chances of getting the Final Four I just don't believe that the Wahine have the right matchups to beat USC or Nebraska in the post season. Only time will tell though .... I agree. It would be nice for them to make it that far, but I don't think they will match well against USC or Nebraska on the road (even a neutral court). But, never say never because if they can continue to improve as the season goes along, they might be just fine. That road trip to Utah at the end will determine how ready they are for the post season.
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Post by cougarize on Oct 12, 2004 1:30:56 GMT -5
I agree. It would be nice for them to make it that far, but I don't think they will match well against USC or Nebraska on the road (even a neutral court). But, never say never because if they can continue to improve as the season goes along, they might be just fine. That road trip to Utah at the end will determine how ready they are for the post season. Hopefully by then Utah will be playing alot better volleyball. Sure they're on a winning streak and sure they beat BYU (It was the Cougars to lose and they did), but they are not looking very good right now. They are a very beatable team. That said now they'll go out and make me look really bad. Also Utah State is mired in a horrible season. At the start of the season it looked like a lot tougher road trip than it will probably be.
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Post by BOTE on Oct 12, 2004 12:11:11 GMT -5
Assumption that Penn State is going to lose 2 to Ohio State and 1 more to Minnesota may be a little premature based on schedule. Penn State won their last 10 Big Ten matches in 03 and took Minnesota out by beating them at Minnesota. All this happened because Salyer was healthy for the second round of conference play. After a slow start this year there are signs that her injury is healing and she is getting up to speed. I wouldn't count them out just yet. If defense wins championships Penn State will be there someplace in November. Penn State, Minnesota, Ohio State, Washington, USC, Nebraska Texas, Colorado State all have some very tough matches ahead in their conferences while Hawaii seems to have the easy road. Its premature to count any of these teams out at this point.
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Post by chipNdink on Oct 12, 2004 12:28:33 GMT -5
Assumption that Penn State is going to lose 2 to Ohio State and 1 more to Minnesota may be a little premature based on schedule.... Sorry, no disrespect to Penn St. fine program intended. We were just having an intellectual "what-if" discussion to point out how rankings might turn out very strangely in a certain scenario due to the odd circumstance of Minnesota being ranked so highly with 2 losses already, while Ohio St. is ranked so low even though undefeated and having beaten Minnesota already. Although I respectfully disagreed with Buchwald, I must say his scenario is at least "theoretically" possible, where Ohio St. finishes the season undefeated (beating Minnesota twice), and yet would STILL be ranked below Minnesota merely due to their current separation in rankings and the voters' historical reluctance to "drop" or "raise" a team's rankings "too much".
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2004 14:05:47 GMT -5
Good thing 1) OSU will not beat Minnesota @ Minnesota and 2) they wouldn't go undefeated even if they did. I disagree, by the way. I think OSU would move ahead of Minnesota if they beat them a 2nd time. The AVCA voters have one set of trends for Pac10 teams and another for everyone else.
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