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Post by Lineshot24 on Jun 23, 2016 12:50:00 GMT -5
Anyone ever look at the power rankings on Aes? Most of the results don't match up with the match wins and losses etc. I've found teams that are undefeated in their results but have a loss listed in the rankings. Does USAV actually use the aes rankings for seedlings?
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Post by 4vball4 on Jun 23, 2016 13:13:39 GMT -5
The AES rankings are mostly useless. You can find regular incidences where results aren't posted. You can find teams that have beaten other teams soundly ranked much lower in the standings. Can it provide some general perspective of the better / worse teams - yes. Is it good enough to delineate who is #1 vs #2 - no. Get further down the list and it gets even foggier. The lack of teams playing against each other throughout a season renders the statistical viewpoint highly suspect. This is why we have a national championship tournament. Thank god the NCAA finally got their stuff together with football (although I would prefer that be more than 4 teams).
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Post by yorktowne12 on Jun 23, 2016 15:07:32 GMT -5
If whoever enters your results does not put the score in, the system will not take the result!
Also if you think your playing in a USA event but really its JVA. those results will not count either.
So on the girls side they can not use any of the JVA/AAU results for seeding for USA events.
Side note usa does not look at AES for seeding. However they do pull the results from AES and put them into a large spread sheet. I have seen that because I had to help seed two girls qualifiers. Try seeding 800-900 teams and 100 plus in a division. My favorite is like the 3rd and 4th tier divisions for girls and they all have 5 wins and 5 L's WHAT!!!!!!
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 9, 2018 8:54:48 GMT -5
In looking at the AES Rankings for the first time this year. Maybe they have improved their algorithm from the past. While not perfect, it looks reasonable to use as a general starting point for seeding and a fun tool for Volleytalk discussions.
Given how some younger teams are bi-polar and can have a flurry of contagoous errors one match and play perfect inspired ball the next, the system is never going to perfectly be able to slot every team. While it looks reasonable enough, the system seems a little off in terms of slotting one region versus another when the teams from two regions have not played each other early in the season. For example, history would say that the 14 Boys Midwest teams are all ranked too high compared to the Southern California teams, but the ranks should get more accurate as teams play matches outside their local groupings.
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Post by greatlakes on Feb 9, 2018 10:22:28 GMT -5
You can argue a team should be up or down a notch or two, but at the end of the day, the top 10 teams in each age group are ballpark accurate.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 12, 2018 14:05:51 GMT -5
It doesn't look like the AES rankings even have the wins/losses entered correctly. WHere do those numbers come from?
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 16:04:34 GMT -5
They are typically correct for the tournaments that use AES for reporting the scores, but they do not use all the manual entries by coaches, as some contain errors on dates, scores, events, etc.. and some results are not entered by coaches.
For seeding, Qualifiers usually go look manually at all the results, instead of using only the automatic and verified list that creates these rankings.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 12, 2018 17:17:50 GMT -5
They are typically correct for the tournaments that use AES for reporting the scores, but they do not use all the manual entries by coaches, as some contain errors on dates, scores, events, etc.. and some results are not entered by coaches. For seeding, Qualifiers usually go look manually at all the results, instead of using only the automatic and verified list that creates these rankings. So - Take SMBC Pali for example (Number 1 in 18s). Apparently, they have played in 39 matches and lost 3. AES only shows 1 loss. Balboa Bay 18s shows 5 losses and 17 wins. AES only shows 2. I can not imagine that the SCVA Points matches would be figured into those number because that would make even less sense. I know that the last few years AES rankings were pretty off based on the results at Nationals. I can't even see that they hold any meaning when the data they are drawing from isn't even accurate. Also - If I remember correctly the seeding at Nationals looked nothing like the AES rankings. I am not sure they use them at all. I remember last year the non SCVA teams jumped in the rankings quite a bit in the spring because SCVA doesn't use AES for their points tournaments and many of the other regions do. |
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 18:56:05 GMT -5
I agree that I see a skew of rankings favoring remote regions.
Why is an SCVA Points match any different from any other Match between teams that could be used to determine better rankings? If a couple more SCVA teams would go out and crush some more teams at other qualifiers, there would be more data to reflect the proper seeding for all teams. Looks like 18s has some crazy flops of teams between the SCVA and Winter Chicago Qualifiers. Like HPSTL from 15 to 1 and vice versa, and AZ Fear, etc.. making it hard to get a concensus rank unless you provide more results from more events to determine if they are Dr Jekyl or Mr Hyde.
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Post by teamjess on Feb 12, 2018 19:49:42 GMT -5
I agree that I see a skew of rankings favoring remote regions. Why is an SCVA Points match any different from any other Match between teams that could be used to determine better rankings? If a couple more SCVA teams would go out and crush some more teams at other qualifiers, there would be more data to reflect the proper seeding for all teams. Looks like 18s has some crazy flops of teams between the SCVA and Winter Chicago Qualifiers. Like HPSTL from 15 to 1 and vice versa, and AZ Fear, etc.. making it hard to get a concensus rank unless you provide more results from more events to determine if they are Dr Jekyl or Mr Hyde. I don't see the SCVA tournaments as any different. If they were all included in these "power rankings" we would see different rankings for sure. What I meant is that if you were to add in the SCVA tournaments - the number of games/wons/losses that are shown would make even less sense to me. I am just trying to figure out where some of these losses that are listed came from. And some of the wins too  They do not add up to the actual numbers of wins and losses actually listed in AES |
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Post by VBSH 2 on Feb 12, 2018 19:59:56 GMT -5
I agree that I see a skew of rankings favoring remote regions. Why is an SCVA Points match any different from any other Match between teams that could be used to determine better rankings? If a couple more SCVA teams would go out and crush some more teams at other qualifiers, there would be more data to reflect the proper seeding for all teams. Looks like 18s has some crazy flops of teams between the SCVA and Winter Chicago Qualifiers. Like HPSTL from 15 to 1 and vice versa, and AZ Fear, etc.. making it hard to get a concensus rank unless you provide more results from more events to determine if they are Dr Jekyl or Mr Hyde. Why would you spend the money to crush teams? Doesn't make sense. Only teams going elsewhere from SCVA are middling teams trying to get a bid. |
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Post by teamjess on Feb 12, 2018 20:08:44 GMT -5
I agree that I see a skew of rankings favoring remote regions. Why is an SCVA Points match any different from any other Match between teams that could be used to determine better rankings? If a couple more SCVA teams would go out and crush some more teams at other qualifiers, there would be more data to reflect the proper seeding for all teams. Looks like 18s has some crazy flops of teams between the SCVA and Winter Chicago Qualifiers. Like HPSTL from 15 to 1 and vice versa, and AZ Fear, etc.. making it hard to get a concensus rank unless you provide more results from more events to determine if they are Dr Jekyl or Mr Hyde. Why would you spend the money to crush teams? Doesn't make sense. Only teams going elsewhere from SCVA are middling teams trying to get a bid. Agreed - unless they are chasing a bid - there is no reason for the SCVA teams to travel. Their competition is stiff and the level of play is as high as it gets. Travel cost $$ and people are spending enough to play volleyball as it is. |
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Post by boysbeachvolleyball on Feb 12, 2018 22:32:02 GMT -5
Why would you spend the money to crush teams? Doesn't make sense. Only teams going elsewhere from SCVA are middling teams trying to get a bid. Agreed - unless they are chasing a bid - there is no reason for the SCVA teams to travel. Their competition is stiff and the level of play is as high as it gets. Travel cost $$ and people are spending enough to play volleyball as it is. Exactly. I was just making a point that the only way to have the rankings be more accurate would be to have the more teams play across regions, but sarcastically saying that it is not going to happen because the SCVA teams are not going to travel to play/crush a field of easier teams. |
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Post by CoastalVB on Feb 12, 2018 22:48:51 GMT -5
There is much more to travel than chasing a bid. For those players playing at the highest level travel is key. Understanding how to prepare on the road, navigating a new city, eating habits, getting used to a different climate, meeting new players, preparing mentally in different conditions, having self-discipline away from normal surroundings, seeing different competition from different parts of the country is so important. It is useful at the collegiate level and beyond. I wish all kids could experience travel. It makes them better players and better people.
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Post by VBSH 2 on Feb 15, 2018 17:20:18 GMT -5
There is much more to travel than chasing a bid. For those players playing at the highest level travel is key. Understanding how to prepare on the road, navigating a new city, eating habits, getting used to a different climate, meeting new players, preparing mentally in different conditions, having self-discipline away from normal surroundings, seeing different competition from different parts of the country is so important. It is useful at the collegiate level and beyond. I wish all kids could experience travel. It makes them better players and better people. the SCVA boys is a unique situation. You want to play the best teams. Teams that come out West fo not come for the travel experience. They come out to test their skills against the best teams. Self discipline for What? There is no time for anything else. Club is expensive, taking trips for experience of other places would be spent outside the gym |
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They do not add up to the actual numbers of wins and losses actually listed in AES
