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Post by guest2 on Aug 19, 2016 14:25:35 GMT -5
I'm not specifically praising AAU BB's technical instruction. Nobody praises AAU BB. It is a disease on the sport, fueled by big shoe money. My point was in response to praise of the skill level of young US BB players above that of foreign players. In fact, the rest of the world has closed the gap dramatically and are consistently producing better skilled young players than the US. The US in general still has the best physical specimens. In the olympics this year, our professionals have already had 3-point victories over France and Serbia and a 10 point win over Australia. The rest of the world is no longer that far behind. As I said in another post, BB lends itself to developing individual skills, as 1 person with 1 ball and 1 readily available basket can entertain themselves for hours dribbling and shooting. 2 people can have a game. In VB there is very little that 1 person with 1 ball can do. 2 people can pepper for a little while before getting board. Finding a net to play on is not as easy, and even hitting with 2 people and 1 ball is a pain, having to chase after each swing. You have to organize at least 4 people to actually play. I totally agree about "flair". I think there is way too much "group think" in youth and college volleyball coaching. Way too many girls that play robotically the exact same way with the exact same technique. The other elephant in the room, is that VB is predominantly a white, monied sport in the US, which seriously reduces the talent pool. Curry is a very special case as is Thompson. They are both sons of NBA all-stars, so have essentially had unbelievable coaching since they could walk. Neither were huge recruits so both had big chips on their shoulders. The rest of the world has closed the gap since when? Since 1988 sure, but over the last ten years the world has been falling further behind. Who are the three best international players in the NBA? Are there any in the top 10? Also the reason the US is playing poorly is bad coaching and lack of experience. There is no US player who wouldnt be the best player on Australia or Serbia or France for that matter. If we sent the Cavs, rather than this semi-all star team where everyone gets 7 minutes, we would be winning every game by 50. Take Australia for example. Their three best players, Mills, Bogut and Delly, are decent role players. If they are the core of your NBA team you are losing 60 games. Who are these "great young players" the world is producing. The world is producing better young players? Take that tired garbage somewhere else Drummond Davis Leonard Wiggins Kyrie Thats the US 25 and under team. The only decent Euros I can think of are Giannis, who came over raw as can be, and Porzingas, who is pretty good. |
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Post by kro2488 on Aug 19, 2016 14:28:32 GMT -5
So I'm saying your not really qualified to judge Karch or any of the other coaches or the players, are you? Now someone who has played professionally or coached professionally or maybe a d1 coach I might take more seriously. This is just nothing but spoiled American fans freaking out. We can't always have things our way sometimes the other team is just the better team in the moment during game day. Congrats to Serbia they deserved that win. You can think that. What I am saying is that I have no reason to reveal potentially identifying information to you. I can read your posts and know that you don't know that much about high level or international volleyball. That you can't do the same isn't my problem. And you have never said anything to make me think different. Never. |
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Post by wonderer on Aug 19, 2016 14:30:30 GMT -5
Apparently, you know NOTHING about coaching women. Team chemistry is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING! And, obviously, you've never taken a risk in your life. You take a risk and, yes, sometimes it doesn't pay off. You don't take risks and you're a loser. Always. risk leaving a poor server in risk leaving tom and hooker off the roster risk risk taking thompson vs fawcett risk leaving a player in who couldn't deliver risk team chemistry over talent. these are women not kids who some people coach and if some of the players didnt want to be there then they would have left the team if the chemistry was so bad to begin with. lesson don't take stupid risks when it means screwing up your chances of getting a gold medal. it's time for the coach to stop being selfish and think of his players instead of himself. we had the team set in london he was supposed to build on it, learn from it, instead he screwed the whole thing up! what a bunch of crock we were fed! exactly, these are PROFESIONAL WOMEN and PROFESSIONALS , not young immature college girls. THERE IS NOT MUCH DIFFERENCE BETWEEN GUYS AND GIRLS, team bonding should NEVER be over TALENT |
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Post by volleyguy on Aug 19, 2016 14:32:59 GMT -5
You can think that. What I am saying is that I have no reason to reveal potentially identifying information to you. I can read your posts and know that you don't know that much about high level or international volleyball. That you can't do the same isn't my problem. And you have never said anything to make me think different. Never. That's obvious. And again, that's not my problem. |
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Post by blockislife on Aug 19, 2016 14:34:04 GMT -5
I blame the lost of the US women's team on the coach I am sorry. There are plenty mistakes he made during that match.
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Post by Wahinevball1234 on Aug 19, 2016 14:35:36 GMT -5
When we lost to a Brazil and got dismantled with Tom and Hooker and the rest back then.were you guys as brutal as you are now?just having them we still could have easily lost this match. All this whining is stupid. We have a bright future at usa volleyball and you guys need to chill. Karch did a great job with this program and we will continue to see great things. "Karch is great!" "Karch did a great job!" "We would have lost with Tom and Hooker there anyway!" "We've won stuff! In the past!" Anything else? Always the same arguments from you Karch lovers. You were proven wrong. You're the one whining about us pointing it all out. No one would be mad if either of them were given a chance by Karch this quad. |
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Post by VBCOACH on Aug 19, 2016 14:38:34 GMT -5
Apparently, you know NOTHING about coaching women. Team chemistry is THE MOST IMPORTANT THING! And, obviously, you've never taken a risk in your life. You take a risk and, yes, sometimes it doesn't pay off. You don't take risks and you're a loser. Always. we're not talking about a risk of taking 3 setters, we are talking about the risk of not including the best opposite in the program (hooker) THAT IS A RISK. a stupid one. and you sound like one of those stuck up coaches that are way too strict with the girls and is all about team bonding and culture but never win anything. I on the other hand have won A LOT. There are books and articles written about how important team bonding is to a women's team. Bill Neville, Hugh McCutchon and Kathy Deboer are a few of the hundreds of volleyball coaches who promote this concept. I have had teams destroyed because players didn't get along with each other. Destinee Hooker would have killed a lot of balls, but she would also have killed the team. Karch was right. Even here on Volleytalk, if a Men's coach gets a job coaching Women, there's always a debate - can he make the change? McCutchon had to have an intervention (by his two most respected players, Logan Tom and Danielle Scott) about a year into his job with the U. S. Women about changing his coaching style because Women react differently to emotion. He accepted their advise and things improved. And this is a GOLD MEDAL winning coach! Now he talks about this in his seminars. How many Olympic medals you got? So, you've won a lot? What level do you coach? I'm actually known for not being very strict with my players. And I can guarantee you that I've won more than you. Two of my players are on the Olympic Team. |
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Post by volleyguy on Aug 19, 2016 14:42:57 GMT -5
we're not talking about a risk of taking 3 setters, we are talking about the risk of not including the best opposite in the program (hooker) THAT IS A RISK. a stupid one. and you sound like one of those stuck up coaches that are way too strict with the girls and is all about team bonding and culture but never win anything. I on the other hand have won A LOT. There are books and articles written about how important team bonding is to a women's team. Bill Neville, Hugh McCutchon and Kathy Deboer are a few of the hundreds of volleyball coaches who promote this concept. I have had teams destroyed because players didn't get along with each other. Destinee Hooker would have killed a lot of balls, but she would also have killed the team. Karch was right. Even here on Volleytalk, if a Men's coach gets a job coaching Women, there's always a debate - can he make the change? McCutchon had to have an intervention (by his two most respected players, Logan Tom and Danielle Scott) about a year into his job with the U. S. Women about changing his coaching style because Women react differently to emotion. He accepted their advise and things improved. And this is a GOLD MEDAL winning coach! Now he talks about this in his seminars. How many Olympic medals you got? So, you've won a lot? What level do you coach? I'm actually known for not being very strict with my players. And I can guarantee you that I've won more than you. Two of my players are on the Olympic Team. Well, there's a 1 in 6 chance that one of them choked. |
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Post by kokyu on Aug 19, 2016 15:21:36 GMT -5
we're not talking about a risk of taking 3 setters, we are talking about the risk of not including the best opposite in the program (hooker) THAT IS A RISK. a stupid one. and you sound like one of those stuck up coaches that are way too strict with the girls and is all about team bonding and culture but never win anything. I on the other hand have won A LOT. There are books and articles written about how important team bonding is to a women's team. Bill Neville, Hugh McCutchon and Kathy Deboer are a few of the hundreds of volleyball coaches who promote this concept. I have had teams destroyed because players didn't get along with each other. Destinee Hooker would have killed a lot of balls, but she would also have killed the team. Karch was right. Even here on Volleytalk, if a Men's coach gets a job coaching Women, there's always a debate - can he make the change? McCutchon had to have an intervention (by his two most respected players, Logan Tom and Danielle Scott) about a year into his job with the U. S. Women about changing his coaching style because Women react differently to emotion. He accepted their advise and things improved. And this is a GOLD MEDAL winning coach! Now he talks about this in his seminars. How many Olympic medals you got? So, you've won a lot? What level do you coach? I'm actually known for not being very strict with my players. And I can guarantee you that I've won more than you. Two of my players are on the Olympic Team. Who's going to initiate the intervention on Karch?! I believe in five I's: intelligence, insight, and inspiration. |
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Aug 19, 2016 16:01:43 GMT -5
So you're telling me #1 Team in the world maybe not medaling is ok? Our current team was the team to beat at these olympics. It's unfortunate an injury and a really hot team derailed them, but to say that this is anything but a failure BASED OFF OF THEIR OWN COMMENTS AFTER LONDON is just wrong. The current "veterans" set the standard for gold when they said silver wasn't good enough. That's why this is a failure and also what should motivate them for 2020. Pretty much this whole team should be back and with a huge chip on their shoulder knowing they were not beaten at full strength this entire tournament. Being the #1 team in the world and maybe not medal info happens. If you went into these games with the expectation that USA had good locked up then you are a fool. Given the talent you should've expected USA to have to battle, even in pool play. #1 is just a seeding not an entitlement for gold. It really sucked for them to lose, it was heartbreaking. Lots of tears where I was viewing. You look at a university team like Wisconsin with Carlini at its helm, runner up her freshman year, regional finals her sophomore, regional semis her junior year. Would you say Wisconsin volleyball has regressed at this point, solely based on their finish? No. Obviously not. Because the program is taking steps in the right direction for the future. USA is heading in the right direction. We're recognizing the change in the women's game. As athletes get bigger, stronger, and faster like the men's game technique and fluidity is going to take a bit of an initial dip until our youth development catches up with the physicality. This quad was going to be really difficult for us as we lacked the athletes other countries like Serbia had. Despite that we developed our own system and it worked. If you thought we lost that game solely on physicality you're dead wrong. We lost that game because of mental mistakes. If this team could've held their mental games together they had a really great shot at gold, but again not a guarantee. You want these women and their coach to feel poorly about themselves and their performance but fortunately they won't view themselves as failures. They've made the difference and change USA volleyball needed and that's something to be proud of. They'll continue developing their system, improving their current athletes, and educating their future stars on what it takes for USA to be successful. And then maybe we'll win gold in Tokyo. I agree with literally everything you said. But my point is when your two captains say in 2012 that Silver is not good enough, then they can't turn around and say Well we loved eachother so the experience is good enough for us. Winning a gold is hard and there were 6-7 teams that had a realistic chance at it. I wasn't expecting them to win, but by their words and actions this olympics was gold or bust. |
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Post by dukelaw on Aug 19, 2016 16:12:43 GMT -5
we're not talking about a risk of taking 3 setters, we are talking about the risk of not including the best opposite in the program (hooker) THAT IS A RISK. a stupid one. and you sound like one of those stuck up coaches that are way too strict with the girls and is all about team bonding and culture but never win anything. I on the other hand have won A LOT. There are books and articles written about how important team bonding is to a women's team. Bill Neville, Hugh McCutchon and Kathy Deboer are a few of the hundreds of volleyball coaches who promote this concept. I have had teams destroyed because players didn't get along with each other. Destinee Hooker would have killed a lot of balls, but she would also have killed the team. Karch was right. Even here on Volleytalk, if a Men's coach gets a job coaching Women, there's always a debate - can he make the change? McCutchon had to have an intervention (by his two most respected players, Logan Tom and Danielle Scott) about a year into his job with the U. S. Women about changing his coaching style because Women react differently to emotion. He accepted their advise and things improved. And this is a GOLD MEDAL winning coach! Now he talks about this in his seminars. How many Olympic medals you got? So, you've won a lot? What level do you coach? I'm actually known for not being very strict with my players. And I can guarantee you that I've won more than you. Two of my players are on the Olympic Team. Did she destroy the team in 2011 or in 2012? Are you putting those losses directly on her? Did she get a chance to join the team after having her baby? You argue in absolutes which is utter BS. You act like people can't change from their early 20s to their late 20s. |
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Aug 19, 2016 16:14:21 GMT -5
Nobody praises AAU BB. It is a disease on the sport, fueled by big shoe money. Who are these "great young players" the world is producing. The world is producing better young players? Take that tired garbage somewhere else Drummond Davis Leonard Wiggins Kyrie Thats the US 25 and under team. The only decent Euros I can think of are Giannis, who came over raw as can be, and Porzingas, who is pretty good. Wiggins is Canadian, but I see your point. Unfortunately the best 25/50 volleyball players under the age of 21 are not US citizens |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 16:15:45 GMT -5
I do not think that anyone who played for Russ would feel that he is not emotionally invested in winning. The man does not care what you did as long as you WIN the point. He would not be happy with serbia taking us to a FOURTH set let alone winning in a fifth. But then again rose would not show up at the big show with a bench so thin that one player going out would leave the top team in the world "helpless" to the powerful 7 million person city state country of serbia Karch Kiray not invested in winning? When did you start following volleyball? Last week? If you would bother to read what his players think about him, they are all overly impressed with how much he cares for them as people. Let's see, Russ would never have a bench so thin that the loss of one player would leave his team helpless? Like the time Christa Harmotto blew a knee during the NCAA'S and Penn State lost to TENNESSEE? Did not know that selecting the USA National team had all those NCAA restrictions on how many you could have there for the quad... You are SOOOO much smarter than me. And your kumbiya quote is laughable. I am glad "they are all overly impressed with how much he cares for them as people". WTF does that have to do with the discussion about winning AND bringing the right players to the games? |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 19, 2016 16:38:33 GMT -5
Maybe they need someone with success coaching women's teams? Some posters seem to think that women need a substantially different coaching skillbase to succeed?
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Post by ciscokeed on Aug 19, 2016 16:47:41 GMT -5
Both our Olympic teams were a couple of plays away from playing in the gold medal match. That's life and that's sport. It hurts it sucks but in no way does that mean our coaches and players are poorly chosen. We live in an antagonistic world. We are more judgemental and more opinionated in all areas than I can remember. Look at Congress. Look at our presidential race. All these websites where you can anonymously rip anyone you choose. I think there is a big difference between saying I prefer to play my lib left back- I'd like to run more middle etc., But no we have to blame people We have to rip their character their humanity their ability. Sport is damn hard. The pressure cooker of the Olympics claims many victims every 4 years. So feel free to comment but please maintain some class and perspective
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