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Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 12:47:39 GMT -5
In football, you can have a great High School QB and they don't have the size or speed to make it as a college QB, and likewise are top college QB's that are deemed too undersized to have success in the Pros. Does this phenomena play out in beach as well? For instance, are there great local California girls wining AAU/CBVA championship events, have lots of hours devoted to the sport, but are deemed too small to carry that success on to the top beach programs? I would think yes. Taller girls with far less beach experience, but better athletes, can come in and rise to the top.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Nov 29, 2016 13:09:54 GMT -5
If you're a fantastic junior player but stop growing at 5'5," schools like USC or UCLA just aren't going to be interested in offering scholarship money. Although there might be some options for a pretty exceptional player at places like, say, Tulane or some of the Florida schools.
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Post by downtheline on Nov 29, 2016 13:53:58 GMT -5
What level CBVA? It must be open level earning AAA.
Top AAU must transition to AA-open events and win consistently. I.e. JWO/Hughes.
JWO for instance could play anywhere at 5'6".
If you can ball like Katie Spieler then yes a top school may consider you.
And no, taller doesn't mean more athletic and there is a long line of those that have tried to convert at a pro level and failed, but in college yes plenty of indoor tall girls have made solid contributions.
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Post by geddyleeridesagain on Nov 29, 2016 14:38:29 GMT -5
What level CBVA? It must be open level earning AAA. Top AAU must transition to AA-open events and win consistently. I.e. JWO/Hughes. JWO for instance could play anywhere at 5'6". If you can ball like Katie Spieler then yes a top school may consider you. And no, taller doesn't mean more athletic and there is a long line of those that have tried to convert at a pro level and failed, but in college yes plenty of indoor tall girls have made solid contributions. I don't think JWO would see the court at USC, but could contribute at a number of other schools. For sure, Spieler is proof that a small player can find a home, so to speak, but there aren't too many Spieler's out there. And as the college beach game continues to grow, each incoming class is getting taller and taller. When it comes to scholarship money, Anna, Ali, Stein etc generally are going to be more interested in a less developed but athletic 5'11 - 6'2" kid than they are a small kid with great ball control who has been winning U15's/U16's. That's just the direction the sport has gone. Not to say there's no hope or anything like that for a smaller player, but it's going to be an uphill battle. Edit: I want to be clear that my comments are in regard to players getting scholarship $$, which is pretty tight in the NCAA beach volleyball world. A good smaller player would certainly have some opportunities to play somewhere as a walk-on. |
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Post by guest2 on Nov 29, 2016 16:19:24 GMT -5
I see why schools would offer scholarships to the taller better athletes, but if I were an upstart program Id be looking for the Lindquist sisters or Brooke Sweat, since they wont be in the running for Kelly Claes anyway. At the collegiate level who is going to be hitting it straight down without frequent mistakes anyway.
I think there is definitely an avenue for smaller faster players with elite ball control to do well, but maybe it would have to be playing out of a lesser program. I think the US in general got really in love with the giants a while ago leading to a lot of Fopma, Fendi, Kropp type players, while elite smalls didnt really pursue the beach game (I assume there were a lot of reasons for this not saying the rise of the oaks was why) But when you see the success of KVZ, Brooke etc. it shows there is a market correction coming.
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Post by downtheline on Nov 29, 2016 21:56:35 GMT -5
What level CBVA? It must be open level earning AAA. Top AAU must transition to AA-open events and win consistently. I.e. JWO/Hughes. JWO for instance could play anywhere at 5'6". If you can ball like Katie Spieler then yes a top school may consider you. And no, taller doesn't mean more athletic and there is a long line of those that have tried to convert at a pro level and failed, but in college yes plenty of indoor tall girls have made solid contributions. I don't think JWO would see the court at USC, but could contribute at a number of other schools. For sure, Spieler is proof that a small player can find a home, so to speak, but there aren't too many Spieler's out there. And as the college beach game continues to grow, each incoming class is getting taller and taller. When it comes to scholarship money, Anna, Ali, Stein etc generally are going to be more interested in a less developed but athletic 5'11 - 6'2" kid than they are a small kid with great ball control who has been winning U15's/U16's. That's just the direction the sport has gone. Not to say there's no hope or anything like that for a smaller player, but it's going to be an uphill battle. Edit: I want to be clear that my comments are in regard to players getting scholarship $$, which is pretty tight in the NCAA beach volleyball world. A good smaller player would certainly have some opportunities to play somewhere as a walk-on. As you know then the USC formula for success has been a big & a smaller player. Although at #3-4 Nic/Ally seem the same size, Ally is one of the strongest on the team and blocks well at < 6.' I agree big is good but Stanford has shown early that big and clumsy gets worked on the beach. People forget speed. Speed kills in this game and will overcome a few inches every time. |
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Post by volleyballjim on Nov 29, 2016 22:43:33 GMT -5
.. and never any reference to "vertical", does it vary much or is there a 4-8" difference in players (thus a 5'6" becomes a 5'11" equivalent)?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 13:21:29 GMT -5
No, I was referring only to AAU JO's and AAU Championships, and the Cal Cup in the girl's own age bracket. Are you telling me that there is an elite subset of girls that blow these tournaments off to compete only in AA/AAA events?
We're from Texas and it's not really possible due to time/money constraints to get a AA/AAA ranking while at the same time competing in Cal Cup tour events, and the AAU's. The two girls from Texas I've seen make the USC roster did not make any kind of effort to get a AA/AAA rating prior to them being accepted.
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Post by guest2 on Nov 30, 2016 14:11:34 GMT -5
No, I was referring only to AAU JO's and AAU Championships, and the Cal Cup in the girl's own age bracket. Are you telling me that there is an elite subset of girls that blow these tournaments off to compete only in AA/AAA events? We're from Texas and it's not really possible due to time/money constraints to get a AA/AAA ranking while at the same time competing in Cal Cup tour events, and the AAU's. The two girls from Texas I've seen make the USC roster did not make any kind of effort to get a AA/AAA rating prior to them being accepted. I guess from a scholarship and maybe a coaching perspective it makes sense to play juniors events but once you get to a certain level, in terms of improvement, why continue playing youth events where a solid player can just play mistake free and wait for their opponent to make youth mistakes. |
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Post by downtheline on Nov 30, 2016 14:54:17 GMT -5
Gino's AAU events are competitive for age group play. When your 14-16 playing against older Aa-AAA players you tend to have to be better to win.
That being said, one could pick certain CBVA that are less attended and perhaps sneak in a win that earned them a AAA against a weaker field.
Keep in mind that money ball has already creeped its way into this sport.
BTW I checked their 2017 roster and I only see 1 athlete from TX: #13 - Lainey Thomas 5'10" fr.
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Post by FOBRA on Nov 30, 2016 15:36:25 GMT -5
BTW I checked their 2017 roster and I only see 1 athlete from TX: #13 - Lainey Thomas 5'10" fr. Haley Hallgren incoming too. And yes, there are a lot of soft CBVA events. There are ones early in the season, ones that are the same weekend as an AVP, ones that are not in Southern California... there's definitely opportunities for players to sneak in a AAA. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 0:17:08 GMT -5
No, I was referring only to AAU JO's and AAU Championships, and the Cal Cup in the girl's own age bracket. Are you telling me that there is an elite subset of girls that blow these tournaments off to compete only in AA/AAA events? We're from Texas and it's not really possible due to time/money constraints to get a AA/AAA ranking while at the same time competing in Cal Cup tour events, and the AAU's. The two girls from Texas I've seen make the USC roster did not make any kind of effort to get a AA/AAA rating prior to them being accepted. I guess from a scholarship and maybe a coaching perspective it makes sense to play juniors events but once you get to a certain level, in terms of improvement, why continue playing youth events where a solid player can just play mistake free and wait for their opponent to make youth mistakes. Sure, that makes sense. And I've seen girls here, once accepted to a college program, start to play in adult open tournaments. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 0:19:21 GMT -5
And Maja Kaiser from San Antonio
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Post by slackerdad on Dec 1, 2016 11:37:31 GMT -5
Two smaller players can do well in juniors since the game depends so much on the serve/serve-receive battle. Less-skilled passing/setting, lack of size/strength and elements leads to less consistent hitting until 16u, so there is no need for effective blocking. At the higher levels where the ball control is better and there is more hitting, two smaller players will likely struggle. However, the McNamara twins sure are proving that wrong. I think they have exceptional "big" skills for their size. They don't block many balls but they seem to have enough net presence to affect opposing hitters. They are exceptional at reading, keeping the ball in play and have unmatched chemistry. And while they can hit, to me it seems more effective when they frustrate opponents by simply shooting to the deep corners.
There will always be need for a quick defender who can read and cover the court as there will be for a blocker who can bang. Specialization occurs in the highest level of every team competition. Does small equate to quick? I tend to think so because smaller players have a lower center of gravity and tend to be more coordinated. More importantly, they've spent more time reading which trumps quickness in my opinion. Further, smaller players have gotten the majority of serves, free balls and shots over the block, so they've had more opportunities for first contact. If you are small with poor ball control, there is almost no way to compensate for that. A bigger player with poor ball control can hide on serve receive and still be offensive if their partner has good enough ball control to option her. Maybe there is a bit of selection bias because smaller player who can't defend and sideout won't be able to find a partner whereas a bigger player can look for someone who can hide her weaknesses.
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Post by downtheline on Dec 1, 2016 11:53:15 GMT -5
There is no place to hide a big that struggles during serve receive in beach volleyball.
Take a look at how KC got served off the court when up against the best in the world. KW served her right off the court in the finals of AVP SF. Same thing happened in the FIVB events.
If your the big and your opponent keeps serving you and you cannot pass your team is toast. Just ask KW about how that worked for her during the Olympics.
No one has mentioned the brain . This is a mental game and staying focused point to point without emotional ups and downs is a key to surviving on the beach.
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