2004 Libero's---

[BearClause]

ESTRELLA said:

Hey guys......I'm new to this board but not new to volleyball at all. Many of you have good points on this subject, but the bottom line is that the Libero is here to stay and if used correctly that player will have a positive impact on the game.

If you did not notice (and I know you do) after the serve occurs a serve-reception skill takes place. If you have a good libero in your system there is a 33% chance she will touch that ball (that is if you have as most team a three serve receive formation). In fact the Libero has the same chance to touch the ball as the attackers (three front row = 33%). So if we are equal in touches and the outcome demands of such touches, why should the Libero have less value in terms of scholarships???

Many of you are asking about Liberos on scholarships. I can give you some that are maybe not tied to the Queens of College Volleyball, but are still DI players and that are making or are going to make impacts on the years to come. Some are Michael Blackburn (OU), Ausburger (Wichita State), Jenna Pearson (James Madison), Lizaiha Garcia (Buffalo) and Abby Showers (GT).

Just remember that the Libero in college is just like what the DH is in the American League of MLB. Eventually when the purists of the game get off their soap box, the position is accepted as a very valuable one for the change/enhancment of the sport.

ESTRELLA

I don't know about that analogy. Certainly the libero is here to stay, and more coaches will be handing out scholarships to fill this position. However - there are a glut of very good back-row players available. Most HS/club players aren't the 6'+ OH or 6'2"+ MB that we see in the college game. The very good 5'7" HS left-side with excellent back-row defense might be willing to walk on as a libero or DS. And there are a lot of these types of players out there.

The DH in baseball isn't quite the same thing. About half of AL managers use the DH spot primarily to give players a partial day off from playing defense. The actual DH-only is very rare - players like Edgar Martinez, Harold Baines, Erubiel Durazo, or Frank Thomas. These guys would be liabilities in the field (and I've seen Durazo attempt to play first base - UGH!!). Even so - players with that level of batting talent are excrutiatingly rare. Very good back-row players in volleyball are less rare.

[Noname]

Wasn't Kamanao offered a scholarship from USC to play Libero, but she turned them down because she wanted to be a setter instead, thus coming to Hawaii?

[fightingminime]

*sigh*

Not sure where to begin . . .

The problem is that they keep trying to create a position for the tiny tiny 5'3" girls to keep playing ball at elite levels and we keep finding a way to fill that position with tall chicks. Everything else being equal, a tall girl can cover more ground. Yea sure, there will always be really good 5'5" defensive players. And the REALLY good shorties will still find a space. But look for a trend of tall-ish liberos . . . 5'9-6'0.

TRUE - The libero is a relatively new position. College and jr. club teams are still getting the grasp on it. Did we forget that college recruiting is a 3-4 year process for the most part anymore? When was the libero introduced in college ball? In club ball?

TRUE - Colleges give scholarships to OH and S that are stellar defensive players and turn them into said liberos. Because it is beneficial to THEM to have players who can play multiple positions in practice AND on the court. Your backup OH is also your backup libero . . . SWEET just killed two birds with one scholarship.

TRUE - As clubs understand what colleges are looking for, look for more clubs opt to use the 5'10" libero that can rip a stellar jump serve. AND THEN we will see more "libero" scholarships handed out.

It's a trickle down process people. DUH, they know they need the libero. Most would call it one of the most important positions on the team, second to the setter.

[Deleted]

I agree programs may head that route, but this goes back to the argument we (not you and I) were having in another thread: they are overlooking the value of a player who can pass and defend.

Yep. A lot of programs will find a libero who can really rip a jump serve. God help them if their opponent manages to get that serve back over to their side of the court.

[ESTRELLA]

Bearclause.... the analogy is right there....loud and clear. The DH is a designated postion of the game of baseball which just allows you to hit. The Libero is the same in volleyball. It just allows you to do certain things in the game (no front row play). Many baseball purits did not like th idea because it was conceding the fact that somebody could be in the game for just a certain skill (hitting). Libero is the same case. Now baseball has seen what a DH can do to the game such as Edgar Martinez, Paul Molitor, Reggie Jackson, The Big Hurt, Juan Gonzalez, David Ortiz, Mr Viagra (Palmeiro) to name some and have finally come to accept it. This is what is happening with the Libero. It will take time and it will be awarded to the player that the coach feels can meet the program requirements. of his

I disagree that there is a glut of very good back-row players available. You can call it all you want but you do not see many kids that can serve-receive, pass and read (look at this....READ the block is providing and what the hitter will do). For me if you don't have those three elements forget about being a good back row player. Yes you see many touching the ball, doing some acrobatic plays, but most of the time it is because they are out of position.

ESTRELLA

[5100]

ESTRELLA said:

Yes you see many touching the ball, doing some acrobatic plays, but most of the time it is because they are out of position.

I couldn't agree with you more. That's probably the difference between Zartman and Gentil.

[BearClause]

ESTRELLA said:

Bearclause.... the analogy is right there....loud and clear. The DH is a designated postion of the game of baseball which just allows you to hit. The Libero is the same in volleyball. It just allows you to do certain things in the game (no front row play). Many baseball purits did not like th idea because it was conceding the fact that somebody could be in the game for just a certain skill (hitting). Libero is the same case. Now baseball has seen what a DH can do to the game such as Edgar Martinez, Paul Molitor, Reggie Jackson, The Big Hurt, Juan Gonzalez, David Ortiz, Mr Viagra (Palmeiro) to name some and have finally come to accept it. This is what is happening with the Libero. It will take time and it will be awarded to the player that the coach feels can meet the program requirements. of his

I disagree that there is a glut of very good back-row players available. You can call it all you want but you do not see many kids that can serve-receive, pass and read (look at this....READ the block is providing and what the hitter will do). For me if you don't have those three elements forget about being a good back row player. Yes you see many touching the ball, doing some acrobatic plays, but most of the time it is because they are out of position.

ESTRELLA

Certainly there's an analogy when it comes to some sort of limitation of what player is allowed to do. However - I'm speaking of rarity. I still believe there's a glut - at least among those who aren't playing OH/RS/S. Baseball players who aren't defensive liabilities aren't going to voluntarily choose the DH position. By the same token, most excellent back-row VB players who can play front row aren't going to voluntarily choose to play back row only. Most of the best back-row players in the game aren't at the libero spot.

And Rafael Palmeiro is not a career DH. I saw the Orioles play the Athletics (does that make me an "Athletic supporter"?) 4 times last week, and he played 3 games at 1B and sat out the other. He did have that infamous year (1999) where he was at the DH spot for most the season due to injury, but won a Gold Glove anyways. He's got three total GG awards.

[fightingminime]

(R)uffda! said:

I agree programs may head that route, but this goes back to the argument we (not you and I) were having in another thread: they are overlooking the value of a player who can pass and defend.

Yep. A lot of programs will find a libero who can really rip a jump serve. God help them if their opponent manages to get that serve back over to their side of the court.

Did you miss the "all other things being equal" (ie defensive/passing skills) comment that I made?

Don't worry (R) I am not knocking Gentil . . . I've never seen her play in person. I am saying that the trend will move to tallish libero's because IN GENERAL they can cover more ground and have a more effective jump serve than the tiny tiny girls. There will be exceptions. There always are.

I don't understand why people see height and defensive skills as being mutually exclusive . . . I know plenty of girls who are 6'0" who can play mad defense.

People always seem to take offense/become hyper-defensive regarding the height issue . . .

I repeat:

[TRUE - Colleges give scholarships to OH and S that are stellar defensive players and turn them into said liberos. Because it is beneficial to THEM to have players who can play multiple positions in practice AND on the court. Your backup OH is also your backup libero . . . SWEET just killed two birds with one scholarship.]

Just because they weren't liberos as a jr. player and they weren't recruited SPECIFICALLY as a libero doesn't mean they don't make good liberos.

[Deleted]

I'm not disputing any of that. I'm just saying most programs will focus on the height and not the defensive skills or the passing skills.

All I'm saying is that they will be better served (no pun intended) by focusing on the potential libero's defense/passing REGARDLESS of her height or her potential as a server or her potential as a backup whatever.

[beachman]

•¤Madonna¤• said:

Wasn't Kamanao offered a scholarship from USC to play Libero, but she turned them down because she wanted to be a setter instead, thus coming to Hawaii?

She was also recruited by Long Beach State....Debbie Green would have loved to have had her there to train!