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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 0:12:37 GMT -5
Regardless of the role of RPI, what difference does it make in the NCAA tournament. Does anyone think that Cal Poly is remotely close to being a Final Four team? uh, Pablo has them #12, which makes them a realistic final 8 team, so it's not likely, but can't dismiss it either they have weaknesses, but they also create some match-up issues for their opponents That's where the weak Big West conference schedule and RPI become relevant. |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 18, 2017 0:20:15 GMT -5
Pablo considers where matches were played: at home or on the road. RPI for vb does not. which leads to the 3rd strike against RPI 1) RPI is flawed 2) RPI flaws compounded by then using them for quality W-L records - this really penalizes the west 3) not considering Home-Loss factor unbelievable advantage for BCS schools who make it tough to schedule them at mid-majors - but that's the NCAA for you Do mid-majors actually have trouble getting home matches from BCS schools? |
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Post by n00b on Oct 18, 2017 7:49:41 GMT -5
Pablo considers where matches were played: at home or on the road. RPI for vb does not. which leads to the 3rd strike against RPI 1) RPI is flawed 2) RPI flaws compounded by then using them for quality W-L records - this really penalizes the west 3) not considering Home-Loss factor unbelievable advantage for BCS schools who make it tough to schedule them at mid-majors - but that's the NCAA for you And Pablo really over-values teams from mid-majors that put up gaudy W-L records. Cal Poly is #13. They played two 'BCS schools' (Pablo #10 and #15) and got swept both times. Their best win is against #22 Wichita State. Speaking of Wichita State (#22), they've also played exactly two 'BCS schools' (Pablo #15 and #28) and were also swept both times. I don't think the RPI advantages Power 5 schools at all. I think western schools that can't afford to travel east in the non-conference ARE at a big disadvantage. But at the same time, I think Pablo overvalues teams who dominate an inferior schedule. |
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Post by gobruins on Oct 18, 2017 8:59:07 GMT -5
which leads to the 3rd strike against RPI 1) RPI is flawed 2) RPI flaws compounded by then using them for quality W-L records - this really penalizes the west 3) not considering Home-Loss factor unbelievable advantage for BCS schools who make it tough to schedule them at mid-majors - but that's the NCAA for you Do mid-majors actually have trouble getting home matches from BCS schools? Long Beach State doesn't seem to have any trouble getting UCLA to come play at the Pyramid, without ever going to Pauley Pavilion. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 9:24:06 GMT -5
which leads to the 3rd strike against RPI 1) RPI is flawed 2) RPI flaws compounded by then using them for quality W-L records - this really penalizes the west 3) not considering Home-Loss factor unbelievable advantage for BCS schools who make it tough to schedule them at mid-majors - but that's the NCAA for you And Pablo really over-values teams from mid-majors that put up gaudy W-L records. Cal Poly is #13. They played two 'BCS schools' (Pablo #10 and #15) and got swept both times. Their best win is against #22 Wichita State. Speaking of Wichita State (#22), they've also played exactly two 'BCS schools' (Pablo #15 and #28) and were also swept both times. I don't think the RPI advantages Power 5 schools at all. I think western schools that can't afford to travel east in the non-conference ARE at a big disadvantage. But at the same time, I think Pablo overvalues teams who dominate an inferior schedule. Lol More bcs bs Poly can play with wash and oregon Again every single game played on the road When those teams go play at poly or urvine or davis, then you can talk |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 9:28:06 GMT -5
which leads to the 3rd strike against RPI 1) RPI is flawed 2) RPI flaws compounded by then using them for quality W-L records - this really penalizes the west 3) not considering Home-Loss factor unbelievable advantage for BCS schools who make it tough to schedule them at mid-majors - but that's the NCAA for you Do mid-majors actually have trouble getting home matches from BCS schools? Yes Historically other than hawaii and long beach and some sb, very few get a sigmificant amount of games Last two years lb has partnered with irvine and fullerton for some bcs opponents |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 9:38:05 GMT -5
uh, Pablo has them #12, which makes them a realistic final 8 team, so it's not likely, but can't dismiss it either they have weaknesses, but they also create some match-up issues for their opponents That's where the weak Big West conference schedule and RPI become relevant. Lol The big west isNOT weak Its the 7th rated conf, and close to the acc Yeah, it is not nearly as strong as 20 years ago but it is silly yo characterize it as weak especially when it has to desl with the rpi bias working against it |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 10:41:11 GMT -5
That's where the weak Big West conference schedule and RPI become relevant. Lol The big west isNOT weak Its the 7th rated conf, and close to the acc Yeah, it is not nearly as strong as 20 years ago but it is silly yo characterize it as weak especially when it has to desl with the rpi bias working against it No, it's weak. The Big West has gone through a complete transformation/transition in coaching and leadership. It's not nearly as strong as it was 10, or even 5, years ago. Occasionally, there's been a dark horse team at the top, such as Cal Poly this year, but in terms of the NCAA tournament, they are a team with absolutely no tournament experience. Carping about RPI doesn't change the situation Cal Poly is in: a relatively geographically isolated, inexperienced low to mid-30's (imo) rank team. If Crosson can lead this team to a a couple of tournament victories, he can position himself at the top of the coaching ranks in the Big West. But I can just as easily see them getting knocked out in the first round. |
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Post by n00b on Oct 18, 2017 10:45:37 GMT -5
And Pablo really over-values teams from mid-majors that put up gaudy W-L records. Cal Poly is #13. They played two 'BCS schools' (Pablo #10 and #15) and got swept both times. Their best win is against #22 Wichita State. Speaking of Wichita State (#22), they've also played exactly two 'BCS schools' (Pablo #15 and #28) and were also swept both times. I don't think the RPI advantages Power 5 schools at all. I think western schools that can't afford to travel east in the non-conference ARE at a big disadvantage. But at the same time, I think Pablo overvalues teams who dominate an inferior schedule. Lol More bcs bs Poly can play with wash and oregon Again every single game played on the road When those teams go play at poly or urvine or davis, then you can talk Stanford played at Long Beach and Saint Marys and won both. UCLA played at Hawaii and Long Beach and won both. Washington played at Pepperdine and won. Utah played at Hawaii and won. USC played at Loyola Marymount and UCSB and won. Oregon State played at Boise State and won. Colorado played at Colorado State and won. So you're right. They didn't play at those three specific schools that you listed. They played at schools that have historically been better than those three. I'm sure if they knew Poly would be 17-2, they'd be happy to go play there. In fact, Poly has only co-hosted one non-conference tournament in the past three years. Zero times hosting on their own. Is it possible they choose not to host or are unable? I think it's much more likely that Irvine and Davis prefer to not play Pac-12 teams (and pick up the loss). |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 11:01:41 GMT -5
Lol The big west isNOT weak Its the 7th rated conf, and close to the acc Yeah, it is not nearly as strong as 20 years ago but it is silly yo characterize it as weak especially when it has to desl with the rpi bias working against it No, it's weak. The Big West has gone through a complete transformation/transition in coaching and leadership. It's not nearly as strong as it was 10, or even 5, years ago. Occasionally, there's been a dark horse team at the top, such as Cal Poly this year, but in terms of the NCAA tournament, they are a team with absolutely no tournament experience. Carping about RPI doesn't change the situation Cal Poly is in: a relatively geographically isolated, inexperienced low to mid-30's (imo) rank team. If Crosson can lead this team to a a couple of tournament victories, he can position himself at the top of the coaching ranks in the Big West. But I can just as easily see them getting knocked out in the first round. Ok well the acc is weak as well then Relative to the pac12, yeah Relative to 32 conferences? Nope |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 18, 2017 11:04:34 GMT -5
Do mid-majors actually have trouble getting home matches from BCS schools? Yes Historically other than hawaii and long beach and some sb, very few get a sigmificant amount of games Last two years lb has partnered with irvine and fullerton for some bcs opponents This is demonstrably false. PAC-12 teams played 25 road matches at mid majors this year. Lipscomb Gonzaga Northern Arizona UT-Arlington Rice Pacific Portland North Texas Boise St. Long Beach (x2) St. Mary's Colorado State Hawaii (x2) New Mexico St. LMU Creighton UCSB Utah Valley Pepperdine Howard Fairfield (x2) Missouri St. But here's also the Big XII - 9 teams play 18 road matchs against mid majors. San DIego UTSA Santa Clara Utah Valley Dayton Wichita St. Hawaii Omaha Ohio Tulane North Texas (x2) SMU Texas St. Wright St. Marshall Army UTEP Hawaii and Long Beach and SB have traditionally had the most because (a) they are hosting tournaments and (b) they are the most attractive Big West opponents for Power Conference teams. |
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Post by bigfan on Oct 18, 2017 11:15:43 GMT -5
Poly can play with wash and oregon Poly can beat these teams this year. |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 11:16:14 GMT -5
No, it's weak. The Big West has gone through a complete transformation/transition in coaching and leadership. It's not nearly as strong as it was 10, or even 5, years ago. Occasionally, there's been a dark horse team at the top, such as Cal Poly this year, but in terms of the NCAA tournament, they are a team with absolutely no tournament experience. Carping about RPI doesn't change the situation Cal Poly is in: a relatively geographically isolated, inexperienced low to mid-30's (imo) rank team. If Crosson can lead this team to a a couple of tournament victories, he can position himself at the top of the coaching ranks in the Big West. But I can just as easily see them getting knocked out in the first round. Ok well the acc is weak as well then Relative to the pac12, yeah Relative to 32 conferences? So your definition of strong is based on comparison to the weak conferences. You must be into participation ribbons. The point of a tournament (and therefore to a degree RPI) is to crown a National Champion. Obviously only one team can be Champion, and that doesn't render all other 300+ insignificant. My original point was to say that the use of RPI for the tournament seeding of Cal Poly is irrelevant to Poly's real chances of winning the tournament. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 11:27:30 GMT -5
Ok well the acc is weak as well then Relative to the pac12, yeah Relative to 32 conferences? So your definition of strong is based on comparison to the weak conferences. You must be into participation ribbons. The point of a tournament (and therefore to a degree RPI) is to crown a National Champion. Obviously only one team can be Champion, and that doesn't render all other 300+ insignificant. My original point was to say that the use of RPI for the tournament seeding of Cal Poly is irrelevant to Poly's real chances of winning the tournament. no - lol - another bad interpretation of what I'm saying my definition of 'not weak' is related to ALL conferences, the Big West is in the top 20% of all conferences if your point is D1 volleyball overall is weak - then ok I guess - because that's the only way one can conclude the Big West is weak from the data suggesting the Big West is weak is somewhat disingenious |
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Post by nakedcrayon on Oct 18, 2017 11:27:33 GMT -5
re seeding, the early look for the top 4 is interesting. the nitty gritty favors some teams and not others, depending on the category. futures says that Florida loses two more matches....meh, I guess, but likely just 1, if that, to Kentucky. The PROBLEM with Florida's resume is the lack of top 25 wins. They currently sit at just 2 top 25 wins, with probably only one other chance get one (at Kentucky). Meanwhile the top Big 10 and Pac-12 teams have far more and have the opportunity to pick up more. BUT, is the committee going to punish Florida for something they cannot control which is the strength of the SEC? Florida has arguably the best two wins against Texas and Nebraska, which really helps the in the "record against teams also in consideration" category. But, it was the first week of the season, at home. Penn State can hold two wins over Stanford over the committee's head, but it's still just 1 team rather than Florida's two wins against two teams in consideration for top seeds. Minnesota has the win against Texas. Texas doesn't have a win against anyone OOC in the top seed conversation and neither does Kentucky or Stanford. Stanford's claim to a top seed will be it's dominance within conference. It didn't work out well for Washington last year, but the Pac-12 DOES have more top 25 rpi teams this year. I think it's going to really come down to the committee balancing the sheer number of top 25 wins versus OOC wins against teams also in consideration. and perhaps the subjective regional rankings/polls plays a bigger role this year. I think Wisconsin is in a bit of a bind as they have no good OOC wins, despite having a really strong non-conference RPI. My early crystal ball would probably say..... My early seeds/regionals would be 1- Penn State (Good mixture of a record against other teams in consideration non conference and lots of top 25 wins in conference) 16- Creighton 9-Kansas 8- Wisconsin 2- Florida (Best record of teams in consideration for a top seed) 15- Wichita State 10- Washington 7- Kentucky 3- Stanford (Best chance to run with the fewest losses against what looks to be a steady top heavy rpi top 25 gamut of Washington, Utah, Oregon, UCLA, USC by season end) 14- Oregon 11- BYU 6- Texas 4- Nebraska (the record against UCLA helps, but it's just not quality like against Stanford or against Texas or Florida....losses to UNI and to a smaller extent Oregon come into play here) 13- Michigan State 12- Utah 5- Minnesota This is simply not true. In addition to beating pre-season #1 Texas (3-1) and #5 Nebraska (3-2) the opening weekend, the Gators swept then ranked #16 UNC in San Juan, Puerto Rico in the second weekend of the season and destroyed then #19 Florida State in 3 in Exactech Arena. Their only other scheduled Top 25 opponent (other than Kentucky), then #21 Michigan State, flew into Gainesville, but due to concerns about the potential impact of Hurricane Irma, the Spartans flew home without playing that match. For those with short-term memory issues, the Gators thumped the Spartans 3-0, with scores of -13, -16, -19 in East Lansing in 2016. So, the Gators are 4-1 against Top 25 teams in 2017, having one other mission scrubbed. For all of you out there that want to doubt or hate on the Gators, please pile on. It's absolutely amazing to me to see how many celebrate a team's "failure". You know who you are, who were just waiting to pounce, once someone knocked them off the three week perch that they were on. Wow, it's so disheartening to follow a 14-1 team. Listen, the Gators didn't ask to be ranked number 1. Give Kentucky their due. They were the better team that day, and are playing better at this point of the season. But for those that want to suggest that the Gators were a paper tiger without real merit of being at the top of the poll, I simply ask you to have your team lineup and play them. The beautiful thing is that NOTHING that is said on this blog, one way or another, is going to make an ounce of difference as to how the season plays out. The Gators, and every other team, don't have to take on the critics, nor more than one team at a time. Kentucky, right now, presents a challenging matchup. I'm not sure how many other teams present the same challenges to the Gators. I'm also not sure who would want to play Kentucky right now. Ok, I'll say it and take the requisite heat. There is no setter, IN THE COUNTRY, running a better offense right now, then Madison Lilley. If the season were to end today, she should be named the setter of the year. Yes, better than SSS, Hunter, Grey, Sponcil, Poulter, Havili, you name it. She is tremendous and this is an opinion formed well before Sunday. As for the Gators, perhaps one of the greatest opportunities that they still have is fulfilling their goal of playing a complete match. Outside of perhaps the Florida State match, I'm not sure that they have truly hit on all cylinders in a contest. Instead of being critical of that, or somehow suggesting that they don't improve as the season goes along, I'd think that other teams might look at that and be concerned. The Gators have a TON of upside. Again, like everyone, they get to play one opponent at time. So keep piling on, remind all VTers how shaky they are, that they never improve, that they pass poorly, that they play in a weak conference, that they haven't been to the Final Four forever, etc. etc. They know who they are and what they are capable of. Whether you believe that or not is frankly irrelevant. Thankfully the only measuring stick that truly matters is whether they can score 75 points faster than the team they are playing does. Something tells me that they are ok with this and will be up for the challenge, through the balance of the SEC and into the tournament. Here's to hoping for a great seed, and more importantly, playing loose and up to their ability. It's significant. As for Lilley, I don't think their is a team in the SOUTH that wouldn't take her as their setter, Many in the BIG would stick with what they have and even some in the PAC |
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