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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 11:29:45 GMT -5
Yes Historically other than hawaii and long beach and some sb, very few get a sigmificant amount of games Last two years lb has partnered with irvine and fullerton for some bcs opponents This is demonstrably false. PAC-12 teams played 25 road matches at mid majors this year. Lipscomb Gonzaga Northern Arizona UT-Arlington Rice Pacific Portland North Texas Boise St. Long Beach (x2) St. Mary's Colorado State Hawaii (x2) New Mexico St. LMU Creighton UCSB Utah Valley Pepperdine Howard Fairfield (x2) Missouri St. But here's also the Big XII - 9 teams play 18 road matchs against mid majors. San DIego UTSA Santa Clara Utah Valley Dayton Wichita St. Hawaii Omaha Ohio Tulane North Texas (x2) SMU Texas St. Wright St. Marshall Army UTEP Hawaii and Long Beach and SB have traditionally had the most because (a) they are hosting tournaments and (b) they are the most attractive Big West opponents for Power Conference teams. agree about Hawaii & LB, in fact that is what I pointed out. as to your selective Data, I'm talking about the Big West the valid comparison is how many home games Big West (or mid-majors) teams have vs. Pac-12 and how may home games Pac-12 have vs. Big West ....if your ratings don't factor in HCA, then it's a big handicap |
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Post by c4ndlelight on Oct 18, 2017 11:34:57 GMT -5
This is demonstrably false. PAC-12 teams played 25 road matches at mid majors this year. Lipscomb Gonzaga Northern Arizona UT-Arlington Rice Pacific Portland North Texas Boise St. Long Beach (x2) St. Mary's Colorado State Hawaii (x2) New Mexico St. LMU Creighton UCSB Utah Valley Pepperdine Howard Fairfield (x2) Missouri St. But here's also the Big XII - 9 teams play 18 road matchs against mid majors. San DIego UTSA Santa Clara Utah Valley Dayton Wichita St. Hawaii Omaha Ohio Tulane North Texas (x2) SMU Texas St. Wright St. Marshall Army UTEP Hawaii and Long Beach and SB have traditionally had the most because (a) they are hosting tournaments and (b) they are the most attractive Big West opponents for Power Conference teams. agree about Hawaii & LB, in fact that is what I pointed out. as to your selective Data, I'm talking about the Big West the valid comparison is how many home games Big West (or mid-majors) teams have vs. Pac-12 and how may home games Pac-12 have vs. Big West ....if your ratings don't factor in HCA, then it's a big handicap The PAC-12 and Big West played 8 matches this year. FIVE OF THE EIGHT WERE ON BIG WESt FLOORS. Seriously, stop just throwing up B.S. trying to see what people won't take the time to counter with facts. |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 11:36:26 GMT -5
So your definition of strong is based on comparison to the weak conferences. You must be into participation ribbons. The point of a tournament (and therefore to a degree RPI) is to crown a National Champion. Obviously only one team can be Champion, and that doesn't render all other 300+ insignificant. My original point was to say that the use of RPI for the tournament seeding of Cal Poly is irrelevant to Poly's real chances of winning the tournament. no - lol - another bad interpretation of what I'm saying my definition of 'not weak' is related to ALL conferences, the Big West is in the top 20% of all conferences if your point is D1 volleyball overall is weak - then ok I guess - because that's the only way one can conclude the Big West is weak from the data suggesting the Big West is weak is somewhat disingenious Being in the top 20% of conferences doesn't mean much if the gap between the top 3 or so conferences and the rest is growing exponentially (the same could be said of intra-conference disparities). It's the same disagreement I have with people who cite parity in NCAA volleyball when any number of teams can beat each other. Parity has no inherent relationship to quality. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 11:43:02 GMT -5
agree about Hawaii & LB, in fact that is what I pointed out. as to your selective Data, I'm talking about the Big West the valid comparison is how many home games Big West (or mid-majors) teams have vs. Pac-12 and how may home games Pac-12 have vs. Big West ....if your ratings don't factor in HCA, then it's a big handicap The PAC-12 and Big West played 8 matches this year. FIVE OF THE EIGHT WERE ON BIG WESt FLOORS. Seriously, stop just throwing up B.S. trying to see what people won't take the time to counter with facts. it's not BS - and that's interesting - thanks for checking - it's not BS, go back over 5 years (if you like) - Hawaii & LB do help with the bulk of the overall Big West home matches which is exactly what I've pointed out too bad, always too much BCS & RPI BS on this board, so just deal with it my point is RPI sucks, and the Big West is not weak (unless you are a BCS elitist) in the world of D1 volleyball |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 11:43:59 GMT -5
no - lol - another bad interpretation of what I'm saying my definition of 'not weak' is related to ALL conferences, the Big West is in the top 20% of all conferences if your point is D1 volleyball overall is weak - then ok I guess - because that's the only way one can conclude the Big West is weak from the data suggesting the Big West is weak is somewhat disingenious Being in the top 20% of conferences doesn't mean much if the gap between the top 3 or so conferences and the rest is growing exponentially (the same could be said of intra-conference disparities). It's the same disagreement I have with people who cite parity in NCAA volleyball when any number of teams can beat each other. Parity has no inherent relationship to quality. so your point is the SEC & WCC & ACC are also weak....got it!!! |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 11:47:26 GMT -5
Being in the top 20% of conferences doesn't mean much if the gap between the top 3 or so conferences and the rest is growing exponentially (the same could be said of intra-conference disparities). It's the same disagreement I have with people who cite parity in NCAA volleyball when any number of teams can beat each other. Parity has no inherent relationship to quality. so your point is the SEC & WCC & ACC are also weak....got it!!! The Big West is weak compared to those conferences too, yes, I would agree. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 11:50:34 GMT -5
so your point is the SEC & WCC & ACC are also weak....got it!!! The Big West is weak compared to those conferences too, yes, I would agree. lol - the Big West is rated very close to the ACC - if you look at the ratings I know, let's just have 3 conferences (Big 12, Big 10, Pac-12, plus Florida) and call it quits I guess by your reasoning, any conference lower that 8 or 9 is downright pathetic!!! |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 12:02:00 GMT -5
The Big West is weak compared to those conferences too, yes, I would agree. lol - the Big West is rated very close to the ACC - if you look at the ratings I know, let's just have 3 conferences (Big 12, Big 10, Pac-12, plus Florida) and call it quits I guess by your reasoning, any conference lower that 8 or 9 is downright pathetic!!! Nice exaggeration. I'm basically disagreeing with your blanket use of a conference as a general standard because there are many things going on in specific, individual conferences, including intra-conference disparities. I don't know why you are arguing. The same argument applies to the Big West in basketball. The Big West's more recent success in women's volleyball might be blinding you to reality, but you simply need to look at basketball to see where it is likely heading. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 12:08:05 GMT -5
lol - the Big West is rated very close to the ACC - if you look at the ratings I know, let's just have 3 conferences (Big 12, Big 10, Pac-12, plus Florida) and call it quits I guess by your reasoning, any conference lower that 8 or 9 is downright pathetic!!! Nice exaggeration. I'm basically disagreeing with your blanket use of a conference as a general standard because there are many things going on in specific, individual conferences, including intra-conference disparities. I don't know why you are arguing. The same argument applies to the Big West in basketball. The Big West's more recent success in women's volleyball might be blinding you to reality, but you simply need to look at basketball to see where it is likely heading. uh, lol, you are arguing as well - it takes two - so, why are you arguing? no, Big West basketball is horrible comparison - Big West Basketball is weak! Baseball & Volleyball - that is where the Big West can and does compete - and also happens to be the two sports where RPI just hammers the Big West |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 12:24:09 GMT -5
Nice exaggeration. I'm basically disagreeing with your blanket use of a conference as a general standard because there are many things going on in specific, individual conferences, including intra-conference disparities. I don't know why you are arguing. The same argument applies to the Big West in basketball. The Big West's more recent success in women's volleyball might be blinding you to reality, but you simply need to look at basketball to see where it is likely heading. uh, lol, you are arguing as well - it takes two - so, why are you arguing? no, Big West basketball is horrible comparison - Big West Basketball is weak! Baseball & Volleyball - that is where the Big West can and does compete - and also happens to be the two sports where RPI just hammers the Big West I should have said, why are you arguing that point. A conference with two very good teams isn't necessarily a bad thing. That has worked for the Big West in baseball and volleyball in the past (it's working for BYU and USD). My point, again, is that the drop-off in quality at Long Beach and Hawai'i in volleyball isn't being made up sufficiently by other teams. The biggest impediment of course is money. All of the Big West volleyball schools who lost good coaches hired cheaper coaches (not even at the budgeted salary levels, but at a lower salary than the existing budget.) In most cases, the volleyball coaches were the highest paid coach outside of basketball (and football where appropriate). |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 12:43:52 GMT -5
uh, lol, you are arguing as well - it takes two - so, why are you arguing? no, Big West basketball is horrible comparison - Big West Basketball is weak! Baseball & Volleyball - that is where the Big West can and does compete - and also happens to be the two sports where RPI just hammers the Big West I should have said, why are you arguing that point. A conference with two very good teams isn't necessarily a bad thing. That has worked for the Big West in baseball and volleyball in the past (it's working for BYU and USD). My point, again, is that the drop-off in quality at Long Beach and Hawai'i in volleyball isn't being made up sufficiently by other teams. The biggest impediment of course is money. All of the Big West volleyball schools who lost good coaches hired cheaper coaches (not even at the budgeted salary levels, but at a lower salary than the existing budget.) In most cases, the volleyball coaches were the highest paid coach outside of basketball (and football where appropriate). again, this year regarding LB & Hawaii is unique with first year coaches (plus with Long Beach, having FIVE starting players injured or out) - it's not necessarily a given at all that what happened this year with LB & Santa Barbara reflects anywhere near a norm - way too early to conclude - as it turns out Irvine & Riverside & Davis (OOC) actually did pretty much make up for LB & Santa Barbara this year - it was a pretty big lost opportunity with SB losing two starters and LB five I think the coaching replacement with 'cheaper' coaches argument is simplistic given the pay that Shoji & BG had by their merit after 30+ years, a lower salary to replace isn't necessarily such a poor indicator in those two cases - now whether those two replacement coaches turn out to be the 'right' coaches is gonna take 2-3 years to get a real good indication |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 12:55:07 GMT -5
I should have said, why are you arguing that point. A conference with two very good teams isn't necessarily a bad thing. That has worked for the Big West in baseball and volleyball in the past (it's working for BYU and USD). My point, again, is that the drop-off in quality at Long Beach and Hawai'i in volleyball isn't being made up sufficiently by other teams. The biggest impediment of course is money. All of the Big West volleyball schools who lost good coaches hired cheaper coaches (not even at the budgeted salary levels, but at a lower salary than the existing budget.) In most cases, the volleyball coaches were the highest paid coach outside of basketball (and football where appropriate). again, this year regarding LB & Hawaii is unique with first year coaches (plus with Long Beach, having FIVE starting players injured or out) - it's not necessarily a given at all that what happened this year with LB & Santa Barbara reflects anywhere near a norm - way too early to conclude - as it turns out Irvine & Riverside & Davis (OOC) actually did pretty much make up for LB & Santa Barbara this year - it was a pretty big lost opportunity with SB losing two starters and LB five I think the coaching replacement with 'cheaper' coaches argument is simplistic given the pay that Shoji & BG had by their merit after 30+ years, a lower salary to replace isn't necessarily such a poor indicator in those two cases - now whether those two replacement coaches turn out to be the 'right' coaches is gonna take 2-3 years to get a real good indication It is pretty simple: they could have hired better coaches if they were willing/able to pay. That is the level of commitment, and more importantly, mind-set, necessary to maintain even the recent level of volleyball. But it didn't happen, and the course is set. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 13:05:29 GMT -5
again, this year regarding LB & Hawaii is unique with first year coaches (plus with Long Beach, having FIVE starting players injured or out) - it's not necessarily a given at all that what happened this year with LB & Santa Barbara reflects anywhere near a norm - way too early to conclude - as it turns out Irvine & Riverside & Davis (OOC) actually did pretty much make up for LB & Santa Barbara this year - it was a pretty big lost opportunity with SB losing two starters and LB five I think the coaching replacement with 'cheaper' coaches argument is simplistic given the pay that Shoji & BG had by their merit after 30+ years, a lower salary to replace isn't necessarily such a poor indicator in those two cases - now whether those two replacement coaches turn out to be the 'right' coaches is gonna take 2-3 years to get a real good indication It is pretty simple: they could have hired better coaches if they were willing/able to pay. That is the level of commitment, and more importantly, mind-set, necessary to maintain even the recent level of volleyball. But it didn't happen, and the course is set. oh brother - that is simplistic to think that way so exactly who were these 'better' coaches clamoring for these jobs? I agree, these schools do not have unlimited budget, but even with BG, it's not like they were paying top dollar - to say that the coaches picked translates to 'lack of commitment' is a little disingenuous - I don't think there is any lack of commitment, where in reality there is a distinct lack of resources - and those are two different things - both programs I believe were targeting coaches who they could pay upper tier Big West compensation and who they believed had the best chance to find a long-term solution for the programs to give them a chance to be top 25 programs - now whether they can pull it off is a big challenge - but I disagree it would be from a 'lack of commitment' |
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Post by volleyguy on Oct 18, 2017 13:10:23 GMT -5
It is pretty simple: they could have hired better coaches if they were willing/able to pay. That is the level of commitment, and more importantly, mind-set, necessary to maintain even the recent level of volleyball. But it didn't happen, and the course is set. oh brother - that is simplistic to think that way so exactly who were these 'better' coaches clamoring for these jobs? I agree, these schools do not have unlimited budget, but even with BG, it's not like they were paying top dollar - to say that the coaches picked translates to 'lack of commitment' is a little disingenuous - I don't think there is any lack of commitment, where in reality there is a distinct lack of resources - and those are two different things - both programs I believe were targeting coaches who they could pay upper tier Big West compensation and who they believed had the best chance to find a long-term solution for the programs to give them a chance to be top 25 programs - now whether they can pull it off is a big challenge - but I disagree it would be from a 'lack of commitment' That isn't how it panned out. Neither program got their first choice. |
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Post by BeachbytheBay on Oct 18, 2017 13:35:26 GMT -5
oh brother - that is simplistic to think that way so exactly who were these 'better' coaches clamoring for these jobs? I agree, these schools do not have unlimited budget, but even with BG, it's not like they were paying top dollar - to say that the coaches picked translates to 'lack of commitment' is a little disingenuous - I don't think there is any lack of commitment, where in reality there is a distinct lack of resources - and those are two different things - both programs I believe were targeting coaches who they could pay upper tier Big West compensation and who they believed had the best chance to find a long-term solution for the programs to give them a chance to be top 25 programs - now whether they can pull it off is a big challenge - but I disagree it would be from a 'lack of commitment' That isn't how it panned out. Neither program got their first choice. lol - I don't know about that who was their first choice, Russ Rose? if a first choice doesn't apply, it's not a first choice, in fact what you describe as a first choice might have been a non-choice LB might have wanted Misty, but if the timing wasn't right, that doesn't make her a real first choice - I get skeptical about names that sometimes get thrown around when openings pop up |
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