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Post by Scipio Aemilianus on Dec 27, 2017 10:11:54 GMT -5
I think a big problem here is just that she is really really good. If she was a 5’11 M to F transgender libero playing in the 2nd division of the Swedish league, most people would let her play and have no problems with it other than their inherit uncomfortableness with transgender people. The reason why so many people are really upset is because she’s 6’6 and is really good.
I am a male that has gone through puberty and had more than 25 years of growing up male. I am still a male but my peak physical ability was around 25. I was never taller than Kathryn Plummer, could never jump as high as Destinee Hooker, and could never hit as hard as Inky Ajanaku even though I had the ‘advantage’ of 25 years of male growth. She’s not 6’6, strong, and good at spiking a volleyball because she used to be a man. She’s like that cause she was born tall with an athletic body and has been practicing volleyball for a long time. I know it’s tough for a lot of people but FIVB, Olympics, etc all realize that you gotta let her play. Stop being so scared. No one goes through a gender change to enhance their pro volleyball career. If you think that’s the case, you are something else.
Thank you to those who, regardless of which side your on, still respect her as a person and don’t insult her with degrading and insulting names.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2017 10:48:36 GMT -5
I think a big problem here is just that she is really really good. If she was a 5’11 M to F transgender libero playing in the 2nd division of the Swedish league, most people would let her play and have no problems with it other than their inherit uncomfortableness with transgender people. The reason why so many people are really upset is because she’s 6’6 and is really good. I am a male that has gone through puberty and had more than 25 years of growing up male. I am still a male but my peak physical ability was around 25. I was never taller than Kathryn Plummer, could never jump as high as Destinee Hooker, and could never hit as hard as Inky Ajanaku even though I had the ‘advantage’ of 25 years of male growth. She’s not 6’6, strong, and good at spiking a volleyball because she used to be a man. She’s like that cause she was born tall with an athletic body and has been practicing volleyball for a long time. I know it’s tough for a lot of people but FIVB, Olympics, etc all realize that you gotta let her play. Stop being so scared. No one goes through a gender change to enhance their pro volleyball career. If you think that’s the case, you are something else. Thank you to those who, regardless of which side your on, still respect her as a person and don’t insult her with degrading and insulting names. She is really good, but that the thing is. I`m not sure where she played her whole career, but before moving to Italy A2, she played in Belgium Men`s League. I don`t think any player coming to the Brazilian League from the Belgium (women`s league) and Italy A2 would put these numbers that she`s putting. Look at Nicole Fawcett, same age and same height, and Fawcett has played in Italy/China and so on, but her numbers are not even close to Tiffany`s. Not even Tandara is putting these numbers. But if I was a female player in the Brazilian Superleague I would welcome Tiffany because playing against her would just help improve my game. They might not have a Zhu/Boskovic/Egonu to go up against with, but now they have Tiffany and I would be happy with that.
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Post by huskerholiday on Dec 27, 2017 15:34:28 GMT -5
Do hormones change or alter a womens ability athletically when they are born as a man ? That is an interesting question.
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Post by durtpile on Dec 27, 2017 17:48:27 GMT -5
Do hormones change or alter a womens ability athletically when they are born as a man ? That is an interesting question. A woman born as a man is a man pretending to be a woman. If he lost his boys, he is a eunuch - regardless of the make believe world he/it lives in. Argue it any which way you care to, facts is facts. Reality is reality.
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Post by vbfamily on Dec 27, 2017 18:07:01 GMT -5
Sorry, have just read a bit of the thread and this may have been brought up. Has there ever been a transgender female to male that has been able to compete against men at an elite level?
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Post by trying2learn on Dec 27, 2017 18:18:44 GMT -5
He is a eunuch, not a woman. She is a woman, as defined by the country of Brazil, the FIVB, etc. Luckily you aren’t in a position to make any determinations about her rights in society or in sport. Thankfully you calling her deragayory names can’t change the decisions of regulators that know more than you, have learned more than you, and care more about the sport than you. Honest question here. Why is it a general assumption that the FIVB is doing this out of "humanitarian" and "progressive" motivation? Isn't this the same sports federation that has a a law in its rulebook that states exactly the maximum shorts length females can wear to appease the media, even though a lot of players' associations are against these types of uniform? How many females, be it cis or trans, make up FIVB's governing body? How many of them voted in this issue? To me it is quite clear this is decision is purely business related. The LGBT community makes up the biggest portion of volleyball fans in many countries in the world, Brazil being one of the best examples. I've talked to players who are currently playing Superliga, and most of them strongly disagree with her participation. Isn't the opinion of these 200 or so women not to be considered in matters like these? Or is it up only to FIVB's business men to decide? Anyways, here is an update...She has now started two games in Superliga, and is sporting a 6.8 points/set average, a whole 2 full points more than second place Tandara Caixeta, one of Brazil’s premier outside hitters and national team member. Ana Henkel, a Brazilian volleyball legend, called her out publicly, and she suffered a lot of backlash in her most recent game, opposing fans callling her by her birthname and shouting transphobic slurs. volleymob.com/tiffany-victim-trans-phobic-backlash-superliga-fans/
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 27, 2017 19:19:02 GMT -5
Do hormones change or alter a womens ability athletically when they are born as a man ? That is an interesting question. A woman born as a man is a man pretending to be a woman. If he lost his boys, he is a eunuch - regardless of the make believe world he/it lives in. Argue it any which way you care to, facts is facts. Reality is reality. And ignorance is bliss.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 27, 2017 19:19:26 GMT -5
Do hormones change or alter a womens ability athletically when they are born as a man ? That is an interesting question. Yes
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Post by huskerholiday on Dec 27, 2017 19:29:35 GMT -5
Do hormones change or alter a womens ability athletically when they are born as a man ? That is an interesting question. A woman born as a man is a man pretending to be a woman. If he lost his boys, he is a eunuch - regardless of the make believe world he/it lives in. Argue it any which way you care to, facts is facts. Reality is reality. I agree
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Post by durtpile on Dec 27, 2017 21:08:10 GMT -5
A woman born as a man is a man pretending to be a woman. If he lost his boys, he is a eunuch - regardless of the make believe world he/it lives in. Argue it any which way you care to, facts is facts. Reality is reality. And ignorance is bliss. I agree. The utter ignorance of basic biology displayed by some is hard to understand in today's world. One might imagine that they prefer to remain locked in their ignorance of nature.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Dec 27, 2017 21:18:14 GMT -5
I agree. The utter ignorance of basic biology displayed by some is hard to understand in today's world. One might imagine that they prefer to remain locked in their ignorance of nature. Yeah - how many people here are actually educated on the biology of intersex people?
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Post by volleyball303 on Dec 27, 2017 21:32:03 GMT -5
Ana Henkel makes a great point “Most players won’t post statements due to the fear of social media patrolling, but most of them think it’s not fair for trans women to pay with cis women. And it’s not. Her body was built with testosterone throughout all her life. It’s not prejudice, it’s physiology. Why not a female national team with only trans women? It would be unbeatable. The problem is that cis women didn’t have the advantage of testosterone to build muscle and bone tissue, but Tiffany did.” The women that play in the league should have more of an opinion. I think Tiffany being so good is going to actually end up hurting the transgender community. I think she will cause the people making the decision to take a much closer look. The better she does the harder they will look into it. It’s a fine line like when C Jenner won Women of the Year. I kinda saw it as a slap in the face to all other women and their amazing accomplishments.
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 28, 2017 0:21:25 GMT -5
I agree. The utter ignorance of basic biology displayed by some is hard to understand in today's world. One might imagine that they prefer to remain locked in their ignorance of nature. Ahhh, Nebraska. Where the men are men and the sheep are nervous.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2017 1:59:30 GMT -5
I think a big problem here is just that she is really really good. If she was a 5’11 M to F transgender libero playing in the 2nd division of the Swedish league, most people would let her play and have no problems with it other than their inherit uncomfortableness with transgender people. The reason why so many people are really upset is because she’s 6’6 and is really good. I am a male that has gone through puberty and had more than 25 years of growing up male. I am still a male but my peak physical ability was around 25. I was never taller than Kathryn Plummer, could never jump as high as Destinee Hooker, and could never hit as hard as Inky Ajanaku even though I had the ‘advantage’ of 25 years of male growth. She’s not 6’6, strong, and good at spiking a volleyball because she used to be a man. She’s like that cause she was born tall with an athletic body and has been practicing volleyball for a long time. I know it’s tough for a lot of people but FIVB, Olympics, etc all realize that you gotta let her play. Stop being so scared. No one goes through a gender change to enhance their pro volleyball career. If you think that’s the case, you are something else. Thank you to those who, regardless of which side your on, still respect her as a person and don’t insult her with degrading and insulting names. Look at Nicole Fawcett, same age and same height, and Fawcett has played in Italy/China and so on, but her numbers are not even close to Tiffany`s. Didn't Fawcett put up 50-some points in a match a couple years ago in Korea, breaking the world record at the time?
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Post by Fight On! on Dec 28, 2017 2:17:12 GMT -5
Look at Nicole Fawcett, same age and same height, and Fawcett has played in Italy/China and so on, but her numbers are not even close to Tiffany`s. Didn't Fawcett put up 50-some points in a match a couple years ago in Korea, breaking the world record at the time? Kingdon had 57 earlier this month. That isn’t even the world record.
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