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Post by mikegarrison on Jan 4, 2018 23:23:43 GMT -5
Why do they have to change their physical appearance to be allowed to play? The IOC asked themselves that question and decided the answer was, "They don't". So no surgery is required. The only thing required to to show the required hormone levels for at least one year. |
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Post by Fight On! on Jan 4, 2018 23:56:19 GMT -5
So are there men who are not transgender that would pass all the medical test (hormone levels, etc) that are given to professionals women players? If there is a man that passes these test should he be allowed to play? Sounds like you all are saying a transgenders gender is a state of mind. Why do they have to change their physical appearance to be allowed to play? Physical appearance changes with HRT. Decreased muscle mass, increased fat, change in size of gonads/genitals. Other changes, like chest and facial surgery may help the person’s body better reflect what their gender is. |
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Post by donut on Jan 5, 2018 10:22:56 GMT -5
Skimmed through this. Happy to see so many positive (i.e. human) responses to the story. Obviously the arguments in this thread remind me of the #northcarolinabathroombill fiasco. People are using "protection again X" (it was young girls in bathrooms, now it's "competitiveness" LOL) as a ill-disguised form of discrimination and transphobia. Much like the North Carolina BOLOGNA, there is so much crying wolf over events that simply have not happened: 1) No transgender male/female has transitioned and won a Gold medal. 2) No one's daughter on this thread has lost their spot on a team to a transgender male/female athlete. 3) A plethora of men are not instantaneously transitioning to become women just so they can win at sports. I personally find it insulting to Tifanny and other transgender individuals that SPORT is more important than the right to self-identify, live life to the fullest, and exist. No cisgender human will ever know the shame, doubt, depression, anxiety, fear, etc. that often comes with questioning one's gender identity. It is also insulting, as many have pointed out, to suggest that one simply decides on a whim to transition. Show some humility. People on this thread are showing "small-mindedness" not just because others are disagreeing with them - but because they can't open their minds to the validity of other human experiences. If you weren't small-minded, transphobic, discriminatory, you wouldn't be saying "SHE'S A MAN," "IT'S UNFAIR" yada yada yada. Your dialogue would consist of, "Wow, glad she is living her truth. We should have a discussion about how volleyball can adopt its rules to our changing understanding of sex and gender." Goosebumps from reading this. Thanks, Dunc! Thanks bb. Stuff like this turns me into such a *~snowflake~*. |
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Post by technique on Jan 5, 2018 13:56:49 GMT -5
Thanks bb. Stuff like this turns me into such a *~snowflake~*. I’ve been discussing Tiffany’s saga with a couple of friends who have transitioned, because they don’t follow volleyball and didn’t hear about this story. I took a screenshot of your post and texted it to each of them, and one responded, “I couldn’t have said it better myself!!” My other homie said, “That’s an ally right there!” . Hence brings the opposite side of the problem if u even are skeptic or question the agenda or narrative you are labeled a bigot and get a mob on you. It's hard to get to a middle ground of yes there is some good reason to allow these athletes but we can't be blind to possibility of an advantage |
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Post by donut on Jan 5, 2018 14:12:48 GMT -5
I’ve been discussing Tiffany’s saga with a couple of friends who have transitioned, because they don’t follow volleyball and didn’t hear about this story. I took a screenshot of your post and texted it to each of them, and one responded, “I couldn’t have said it better myself!!” My other homie said, “That’s an ally right there!” . Hence brings the opposite side of the problem if u even are skeptic or question the agenda or narrative you are labeled a bigot and get a mob on you. It's hard to get to a middle ground of yes there is some good reason to allow these athletes but we can't be blind to possibility of an advantage What "agenda" or "narrative"? Middle ground is having a constructive conversation around how the sport can evolve. The "POSSIBILITY of an advantage" 1) should not be the center of the conversation, their person-hood should be and 2) exists in all sports with or without transgender athletes. Not the main point of my argument, but what this thread is arguing is that Brittney Griner had no unfair advantage at 6'9" in the WNBA but if she had transitioned, HOLD THE PHONE. Honestly, what difference does it make? The fact that 1 player transitioning has prompted responses like the ones in this thread that claim fairness has been destroyed, etc., etc., demonstrates transphobia. |
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Post by volleyba11 on Jan 5, 2018 14:50:47 GMT -5
. Hence brings the opposite side of the problem if u even are skeptic or question the agenda or narrative you are labeled a bigot and get a mob on you. It's hard to get to a middle ground of yes there is some good reason to allow these athletes but we can't be blind to possibility of an advantage What "agenda" or "narrative"? Middle ground is having a constructive conversation around how the sport can evolve. The "POSSIBILITY of an advantage" 1) should not be the center of the conversation, their person-hood should be and 2) exists in all sports with or without transgender athletes. Not the main point of my argument, but what this thread is arguing is that Brittney Griner had no unfair advantage at 6'9" in the WNBA but if she had transitioned, HOLD THE PHONE. Honestly, what difference does it make? The fact that 1 player transitioning has prompted responses like the ones in this thread that claim fairness has been destroyed, etc., etc., demonstrates transphobia. Middle ground can also be having a constructive conversation around how to maintain the integrity of the sport when there is a possibility of attaining an unfair advantage. Why on a forum 99% dedicated to the SPORT of volleyball, should the conversation not be about the volleyball sign of the situation? If you want to talk about the morality and person-hood, then take that to "Off the Net." This is the Women's Volleyball section and you're saying that volleyball should not be the center of the conversation.. This isn't just about advantage, it's about what is considered an unfair advantage. As I've argued before, Griner definitely has an advantage at 6'9", but no one is calling it unfair because as a society we have not made a point of separating great athletes from freakishly great athletes. Giannis Antetokounmpo and Isaiah Thomas play in the same NBA and no one argues that it is unfair. It's not equal, Giannis has a HUGE advantage, but no one considers it unfair. The reason that I believe a portion of people have a problem with this is that we as a society have always separated Men's and Women's sports because we felt it was unfair to make women play against men. When the line between women/men becomes blurred, that makes us uneasy from a competitive fairness perspective. The easy solution is to make all sports co-ed. That would be much more equal. We are not saying that 1 player means the real has to be changed, but I believe we are saying we need to prepare for the possibility that IF it becomes an issue, we should be able to debate what a fair solution is. This is a hypothetical debate about sports. |
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Post by mervinswerved on Jan 5, 2018 14:55:01 GMT -5
Worrying about a slew of men hypothetically transitioning to women so they can claim the glory and riches of women's sports is like worrying about what you're going to name your yacht if you win the lottery.
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 5, 2018 16:21:58 GMT -5
Goosebumps from reading this. Thanks, Dunc! Thanks bb. Stuff like this turns me into such a *~snowflake~*. It sure did.... |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Jan 5, 2018 16:22:06 GMT -5
Women's sports is starting to become an absolute circus.
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Post by donut on Jan 5, 2018 18:00:28 GMT -5
thanks for contributing to this debate in a totally useless yet arrogant way. my deep hosility? ....and lets not forget my ignorance? Lordy you are arrogant. are you A MAN OR A WOMEN? MMM? , watch who you're calling a snowflake hun because you seem a bit triggered. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 5, 2018 18:16:56 GMT -5
thanks for contributing to this debate in a totally useless yet arrogant way. my deep hosility? ....and lets not forget my ignorance? Lordy you are arrogant. are you A MAN OR A WOMEN? MMM? , watch who you're calling a snowflake hun because you seem a bit triggered. not at all. I am growing very tired of people like you who use bullying tactics and shame when people try to debate these subjects. Like the bigoted, racists, homophobic crap when the debate was if its fair to have a transgender player with male genetics competing against genetic women. |
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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 5, 2018 18:21:51 GMT -5
huskerholiday, watch who you're calling a snowflake hun because you seem a bit triggered. not at all. I am growing very tired of people like you who use bullying tactics and shame when people try to debate these subjects. Like the bigoted, racists, homophobic crap when the debate was if its fair to have a transgender player with male genetics competing against genetic women. Dude you're honestly a troll. Your anecdotal friend "Tina" screams fraud. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 5, 2018 18:24:56 GMT -5
not at all. I am growing very tired of people like you who use bullying tactics and shame when people try to debate these subjects. Like the bigoted, racists, homophobic crap when the debate was if its fair to have a transgender player with male genetics competing against genetic women. Dude you're honestly a troll. Your anecdotal friend "Tina" screams fraud. Whatever, Colorado Institute of Art- 1985. Tina was one of the first. If you want to put down Tina go ahead. |
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Post by donut on Jan 5, 2018 18:30:52 GMT -5
huskerholiday , watch who you're calling a snowflake hun because you seem a bit triggered. not at all. I am growing very tired of people like you who use bullying tactics and shame when people try to debate these subjects. Like the bigoted, racists, homophobic crap when the debate was if its fair to have a transgender player with male genetics competing against genetic women. Please point out where I bullied anyone. And for reference: 1) I joined the thread 20+ pages in. We both know the "debate" had changed mucho from page 1. And 2) I offered a different paradigm through which to view this debate. We are all humans, humans should be afforded the right to live their truths. Any loss of fairness (which myself and others have argued is minuscule and a slippery slope argument) comes second to that consideration. |
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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 5, 2018 18:45:53 GMT -5
Dude you're honestly a troll. Your anecdotal friend "Tina" screams fraud. Whatever, Colorado Institute of Art- 1985. Tina was one of the first. If you want to put down Tina go ahead. Stop inventing things. I'm putting you down. Trans people have been here since the beginning of human civilization. Do your googles. You use a friendship from the 80s to justify your dehumanizing usage of "a transgender" despite many people in 2017-2018 pointing out how it's offensive. Then you keep turning pro-trans posts as attacks against "Tina". It all adds up to fraud. The one magical friend who is an other to keep pulling out your pocket so you can discount posts that are calling you out for your transphobia |
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