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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 11:55:39 GMT -5
My friend preferred to be called Transgender and was proud of it. Should they be ashamed? Is that what your saying? "Tina,' is thrilled to be phrased as a transgender. Of course you should call your friend whatever they've asked you to call them. As a general rule, however, in the trans community, calling someone "a transgender," instead of "a man/woman/transman/transwoman" is considered insulting. So if you are talking about a stranger, it's safest to describe them as a man/woman (or, if it's germane to the conversation, a transman/transwoman). Just calling them "a transgender" is rude. Also, "transgender" isn't a gender. It's not specific enough, for one - which "way" is the person transgender? Are they MTF or FTM? Transgender people aren't some weird third gender. They are people whose gender identity doesn't match the gender that was assigned to them at birth. Often that gender assigned at birth does reflect a chromosomal sex (XX, XY), but sometimes it does not. One other thing: If we weren't specifically discussing her in the context of transgender athletes, the appropriate way to describe Ms. Abreu would be to say she is a woman. good...we have established that my friend can be comfortable with whatever she chooses to be called. How gracious of you. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 11:56:53 GMT -5
If Lebron decided he wanted to be a women and went through the steps should he be able to compete in the womens basketball league? Come on! This is a straw man argument that reflects a deep misunderstanding of gender dysphoria and transgender people. Transgender people don't just up and decide one morning that they want to be a different gender than they are. It's not even a decision or a want. It's an inherent conflict between a person's assigned gender and the way they feel. If you're truly curious, here's some additional reading: www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoriaagain...you missed the entire point of why most are uncomfortable with this. Its stricly about ability and unfairness but of course we continue to get lectures on everything else that have zero to do with our questions. |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Jan 4, 2018 12:07:47 GMT -5
Ok, Mr. Gross/abhorent. Lets say you are one of the 30ish who get to come to the USA gym in an attempt to make the Olympic team. This has a been a dream of your since you were a little girl. One of the 30 is a man, lets call him Bobbet, who decided to become a woman. On the final day, you are excited and feel you have done enough to EARN a spot on the team. You check the list and find that you were left off but Bobbet, has made the Olympic team. Not only were you left off, but 18 other women who had the same dream did not make the Olympic team. Fair? This might be the worst argument/funniest post in this thread. Thanks. As I've said earlier, this thread is a great place to find new posters to block. This is probably the best thread on which to invite all snow flakes to block me from their safe space, right from the get go. TIA |
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Post by #scoskers on Jan 4, 2018 12:07:53 GMT -5
If Lebron decided he wanted to be a women and went through the steps should he be able to compete in the womens basketball league? Come on! This is a straw man argument that reflects a deep misunderstanding of gender dysphoria and transgender people. Transgender people don't just up and decide one morning that they want to be a different gender than they are. It's not even a decision or a want. It's an inherent conflict between a person's assigned gender sex and the way they feel. If you're truly curious, here's some additional reading: www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoriaFTFY. Gender is a social construct. Sex is biological. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 4, 2018 12:15:16 GMT -5
This is a straw man argument that reflects a deep misunderstanding of gender dysphoria and transgender people. Transgender people don't just up and decide one morning that they want to be a different gender than they are. It's not even a decision or a want. It's an inherent conflict between a person's assigned gender and the way they feel. If you're truly curious, here's some additional reading: www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoriaagain...you missed the entire point of why most are uncomfortable with this. Its stricly about ability and unfairness but of course we continue to get lectures on everything else that have zero to do with our questions. Other people had already answered your question, but I will restate it. If a professional athlete who had been transgender all along finally medically transitioned in their mid-late 30s and passed all the medical tests (hormone levels, etc.), then yes, they should be able to continue their career post-transition. But again, you're making a straw man argument. Yes, some people delay medical transition to adulthood, but that doesn't meant that they just up and decided one morning to be a different gender. They have likely been transgender all along but not have the social support or financial resources to medically transition until adulthood. There are true questions to be asked about how to determine with scientific testing who plays on a women's team and who plays on a men's team, particularly in a world where hormones are used as PEDs by dishonest athletes. It's also a fair question about the physical and social differences between trans people who transitioned in childhood or adolescence vs. someone who transitioned during adulthood. These are serious discussions that are being held by serious people. But it's really hard to take your questions seriously or have a constructive discussion of these issues with you because the way you are posing them reveals a deep ignorance of and hostility towards transgender people. The language used by you and the other posters opposed to transwomen participating in sport is not language that is rooted in a place of honest inquiry or compassion. Until you get there, it doesn't seem worth entertaining your opinions on the matter. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 4, 2018 12:16:27 GMT -5
This is a straw man argument that reflects a deep misunderstanding of gender dysphoria and transgender people. Transgender people don't just up and decide one morning that they want to be a different gender than they are. It's not even a decision or a want. It's an inherent conflict between a person's assigned gender sex and the way they feel. If you're truly curious, here's some additional reading: www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoriaFTFY. Gender is a social construct. Sex is biological. Correct. But gender is assigned at birth, and often but not always tracks with biological sex. Which is why I said assigned gender and not sex. |
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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 4, 2018 12:18:03 GMT -5
Lol. What a stupid stupid question. I am a cisgender/black/homosexual/male. I identify as a man. My pronouns are he/him but sometimes it gets spicy and "sis" gets used. My mother is a black Jamaican immigrant and my father a white Brit. What else would you like to know? MMM? #blacktranslivesmatter i'm sorry, that was confusing, I didn't mean to ask you personally about your life, I was pointing out that when we ask if they are a man or a woman so it seems logical to say a transgender. I've already broken down why it's unacceptable to call someone "a transgender". If you're not feeling the message from me you could do a cursory google search. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 12:20:15 GMT -5
again...you missed the entire point of why most are uncomfortable with this. Its stricly about ability and unfairness but of course we continue to get lectures on everything else that have zero to do with our questions. Other people had already answered your question, but I will restate it. If a professional athlete who had been transgender all along finally medically transitioned in their mid-late 30s and passed all the medical tests (hormone levels, etc.), then yes, they should be able to continue their career post-transition. But again, you're making a straw man argument. Yes, some people delay medical transition to adulthood, but that doesn't meant that they just up and decided one morning to be a different gender. They have likely been transgender all along but not have the social support or financial resources to medically transition until adulthood. There are true questions to be asked about how to determine with scientific testing who plays on a women's team and who plays on a men's team, particularly in a world where hormones are used as PEDs by dishonest athletes. It's also a fair question about the physical and social differences between trans people who transitioned in childhood or adolescence vs. someone who transitioned during adulthood. These are serious discussions that are being held by serious people. But it's really hard to take your questions seriously or have a constructive discussion of these issues with you because the way you are posing them reveals a deep ignorance of and hostility towards transgender people. The language used by you and the other posters opposed to transwomen participating in sport is not language that is rooted in a place of honest inquiry or compassion. Until you get there, it doesn't seem worth entertaining your opinions on the matter. my deep hosility? ....and lets not forget my ignorance? Lordy you are arrogant. |
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Post by #scoskers on Jan 4, 2018 12:22:02 GMT -5
FTFY. Gender is a social construct. Sex is biological. Correct. But gender is assigned at birth, and often but not always tracks with biological sex. Which is why I said assigned gender and not sex. Q: Who assigns gender norms? A: Society, which is why gender is a social construct. Read Luna by Julie Anne Peters or Fun Home by Allison Bechdel. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 4, 2018 12:41:38 GMT -5
Correct. But gender is assigned at birth, and often but not always tracks with biological sex. Which is why I said assigned gender and not sex. Q: Who assigns gender norms? A: Society, which is why gender is a social construct. Read Luna by Julie Anne Peters or Fun Home by Allison Bechdel. Thanks for the book recs. I'll add them to my reading list. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 12:44:57 GMT -5
Q: Who assigns gender norms? A: Society, which is why gender is a social construct. Read Luna by Julie Anne Peters or Fun Home by Allison Bechdel. Thanks for the book recs. I'll add them to my reading list. Please do.  |
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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 4, 2018 13:00:00 GMT -5
This might be my favorite post of all time |
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Post by volleyball303 on Jan 4, 2018 13:02:40 GMT -5
So are there men who are not transgender that would pass all the medical test (hormone levels, etc) that are given to professionals women players? If there is a man that passes these test should he be allowed to play? Sounds like you all are saying a transgenders gender is a state of mind. Why do they have to change their physical appearance to be allowed to play?
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 13:13:54 GMT -5
Please do. You should read them, too! I'm on Amazon as we speak practically giddy with anticipation. |
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Post by donut on Jan 4, 2018 23:05:35 GMT -5
Skimmed through this. Happy to see so many positive (i.e. human) responses to the story.
Obviously the arguments in this thread remind me of the #northcarolinabathroombill fiasco. People are using "protection again X" (it was young girls in bathrooms, now it's "competitiveness" LOL) as a ill-disguised form of discrimination and transphobia. Much like the North Carolina BOLOGNA, there is so much crying wolf over events that simply have not happened:
1) No transgender male/female has transitioned and won a Gold medal.
2) No one's daughter on this thread has lost their spot on a team to a transgender male/female athlete.
3) A plethora of men are not instantaneously transitioning to become women just so they can win at sports.
I personally find it insulting to Tifanny and other transgender individuals that SPORT is more important than the right to self-identify, live life to the fullest, and exist. No cisgender human will ever know the shame, doubt, depression, anxiety, fear, etc. that often comes with questioning one's gender identity. It is also insulting, as many have pointed out, to suggest that one simply decides on a whim to transition. Show some humility. People on this thread are showing "small-mindedness" not just because others are disagreeing with them - but because they can't open their minds to the validity of other human experiences. If you weren't small-minded, transphobic, discriminatory, you wouldn't be saying "SHE'S A MAN," "IT'S UNFAIR" yada yada yada. Your dialogue would consist of, "Wow, glad she is living her truth. We should have a discussion about how volleyball can adopt its rules to our changing understanding of sex and gender."
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