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Post by alhorford90 on Jan 4, 2018 2:02:06 GMT -5
You called me arrogant when I simply pointed out no one is "a transgender". are you A MAN OR A WOMEN? MMM? Lol. What a stupid stupid question. I am a cisgender/black/homosexual/male. I identify as a man. My pronouns are he/him but sometimes it gets spicy and "sis" gets used. My mother is a black Jamaican immigrant and my father a white Brit. What else would you like to know? MMM? #blacktranslivesmatter |
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Post by mnsports255 on Jan 4, 2018 2:36:52 GMT -5
First time reading this thread, and woah... a couple thoughts.
I'm going to be transparent. I'm a 20 year old libertarian from a conservative city in Minnesota who also has conservative parents. The whole concept of transgenders and transsexuals is still a bit of a different concept for me to wrap my head around as I didn't grow up knowing anyone who identifies as such, although I'm constantly learning new facts regarding the science behind it and the struggles these individuals go through in their lives before, during, and after their transition. The idea of someone like Tiffany competing in high level women's athletics is personally a murky issue for me, but obviously who am I to judge considering a ruling has already been made.
That being said, I've seen some of the most blatant and utter disrespect *most notably from Dash22, huskerholiday, and lo4um* on this forum in regards to trans people. Some of the stuff they've said is frankly disgusting and 1940's-esque, and it's sad to see people show elementary level pettiness and borderline hatred for others. It's despicable... Nobody is born hating others, and it's sad to see they've been fostered in an environment that has taught them that it's ok to be hostile towards others they perceive to be different than themselves.
Lastly, there is nothing you 3 users can say or do to defend the intolerance and disdain you've displayed... and notice I've refrained from name calling. Consider yourselves all blocked.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 8:09:43 GMT -5
@ them sis
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 8:12:41 GMT -5
I'd've said abhorrent, but "gross" works okay, I guess. So much for tolerance and love. LOL. "Please tolerate and love our intolerant and hateful opinions!" |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 8:17:00 GMT -5
I'd've said abhorrent, but "gross" works okay, I guess. Ok, Mr. Gross/abhorent. Lets say you are one of the 30ish who get to come to the USA gym in an attempt to make the Olympic team. This has a been a dream of your since you were a little girl. One of the 30 is a man, lets call him Bobbet, who decided to become a woman. On the final day, you are excited and feel you have done enough to EARN a spot on the team. You check the list and find that you were left off but Bobbet, has made the Olympic team. Not only were you left off, but 18 other women who had the same dream did not make the Olympic team. Fair? This might be the worst argument/funniest post in this thread. Thanks. As I've said earlier, this thread is a great place to find new posters to block. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 8:17:57 GMT -5
Accepting that trans people have rights, and choosing to advocate for them, is not simply a matter of being politically correct. Many of us have friends, co-workers, teammates, or family members who are transgender. In my case, I also have a releavnt specialization in my PhD studies and taught Gender Studies for years at a college. I am not sure why you choose to belittle that in-depth knowledge and study of the issue by labeling my support of a trans athlete as mere political correctness. Now, if one’s reasoning that Tiffany should not play is because she is really a man (which many have clearly stated on this thread) that is in fact the definition of a bigoted perspective (i.e. it demonstrates intolerance of the supportive viewpoint held by the sport’s governing bodies, modern medical practice, Brazilian laws, etc). If one’s perspective is that the current rules are too lenient as they don’t account for this, that, or the other, there is something to discuss. of course they should have rights. No one is debating that point at all. Do they have an unfair advantage genetically? Yes or no? If LeBron and Serena had a kid, would that kid have a genetic advantage? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2018 8:18:10 GMT -5
common sense and logic should tell you the answer double and admitting it doesn't make you awful . In the history of our society, “common sense” told us that many things were right that we no longer accept, like that women shouldn’t be allowed to vote, were naturally less intelligent than men, weren’t fit for leadership positions, etc. We thought it was natural to enslave people, appropriate to segregate them, correct to ban interracial marriage. We accepted all of that because “it just made sense.” The changes we have experienced that have ended those practices were led by relatively small groups of forward-thinking people. They challenged “common sense” and we have a different society because of it. You can base your perspective on your assumptions of the advantages this player has. I will base mine on current medical and legal opinion. i love you |
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Post by bobthebuilder on Jan 4, 2018 8:25:04 GMT -5
Listen...I love your sense of fairness for this woman. Let me ask one thing however. If Bruce Jenner would have transitioned then entered the olympics would it have been fair? Yes or NO. It would be the same. Post transition, she would have been legally recognized as a woman, taken appropriate hormones, met testosterone level requirements (or whatever would have been in place at the time), and been approved to compete. There is a difference between fairness and equality. All professional athletes are already incredibly advantaged over average people. They are not equal genetically. There is a HUGE difference from a 6’5” woman and a 6’5” former male athletically. Not equal. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 10:33:16 GMT -5
are you A MAN OR A WOMEN? MMM? Lol. What a stupid stupid question. I am a cisgender/black/homosexual/male. I identify as a man. My pronouns are he/him but sometimes it gets spicy and "sis" gets used. My mother is a black Jamaican immigrant and my father a white Brit. What else would you like to know? MMM? #blacktranslivesmatter i'm sorry, that was confusing, I didn't mean to ask you personally about your life, I was pointing out that when we ask if they are a man or a woman so it seems logical to say a transgender. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 4, 2018 10:44:02 GMT -5
Lol. What a stupid stupid question. I am a cisgender/black/homosexual/male. I identify as a man. My pronouns are he/him but sometimes it gets spicy and "sis" gets used. My mother is a black Jamaican immigrant and my father a white Brit. What else would you like to know? MMM? #blacktranslivesmatter i'm sorry, that was confusing, I didn't mean to ask you personally about your life, I was pointing out that when we ask if they are a man or a woman so it seems logical to say a transgender. It does not make sense. Trans people aren't some third gender. Transmen are men. Transwomen are women. The "trans" prefix is relevant as a medical indicator and social determinant of health, and as a way for out trans people to own their identity and discuss their experience. But beyond that, it's not relevant. Asking someone their gender is generally a pretty rude thing to do. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 11:22:26 GMT -5
i'm sorry, that was confusing, I didn't mean to ask you personally about your life, I was pointing out that when we ask if they are a man or a woman so it seems logical to say a transgender. It does not make sense. Trans people aren't some third gender. Transmen are men. Transwomen are women. The "trans" prefix is relevant as a medical indicator and social determinant of health, and as a way for out trans people to own their identity and discuss their experience. But beyond that, it's not relevant. Asking someone their gender is generally a pretty rude thing to do. My friend preferred to be called Transgender and was proud of it. Should they be ashamed? Is that what your saying? "Tina,' is thrilled to be phrased as a transgender. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 11:32:08 GMT -5
First time reading this thread, and woah... a couple thoughts. I'm going to be transparent. I'm a 20 year old libertarian from a conservative city in Minnesota who also has conservative parents. The whole concept of transgenders and transsexuals is still a bit of a different concept for me to wrap my head around as I didn't grow up knowing anyone who identifies as such, although I'm constantly learning new facts regarding the science behind it and the struggles these individuals go through in their lives before, during, and after their transition. The idea of someone like Tiffany competing in high level women's athletics is personally a murky issue for me, but obviously who am I to judge considering a ruling has already been made. That being said, I've seen some of the most blatant and utter disrespect *most notably from Dash22, huskerholiday, and lo4um* on this forum in regards to trans people. Some of the stuff they've said is frankly disgusting and 1940's-esque, and it's sad to see people show elementary level pettiness and borderline hatred for others. It's despicable... Nobody is born hating others, and it's sad to see they've been fostered in an environment that has taught them that it's ok to be hostile towards others they perceive to be different than themselves. Lastly, there is nothing you 3 users can say or do to defend the intolerance and disdain you've displayed... and notice I've refrained from name calling. Consider yourselves all blocked. I am curious what I said exactly that was disdainful? And namecalling? What??? If you are that overly sensitive that you cannot handle the discussion of whether its fair or not you better just not tune in at all. WOW. |
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Post by huskerholiday on Jan 4, 2018 11:33:32 GMT -5
of course they should have rights. No one is debating that point at all. Do they have an unfair advantage genetically? Yes or no? If LeBron and Serena had a kid, would that kid have a genetic advantage? If Lebron decided he wanted to be a women and went through the steps should he be able to compete in the womens basketball league? Come on! |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 4, 2018 11:49:29 GMT -5
It does not make sense. Trans people aren't some third gender. Transmen are men. Transwomen are women. The "trans" prefix is relevant as a medical indicator and social determinant of health, and as a way for out trans people to own their identity and discuss their experience. But beyond that, it's not relevant. Asking someone their gender is generally a pretty rude thing to do. My friend preferred to be called Transgender and was proud of it. Should they be ashamed? Is that what your saying? "Tina,' is thrilled to be phrased as a transgender. Of course you should call your friend whatever they've asked you to call them. As a general rule, however, in the trans community, calling someone "a transgender," instead of "a man/woman/transman/transwoman" is considered insulting. So if you are talking about a stranger, it's safest to describe them as a man/woman (or, if it's germane to the conversation, a transman/transwoman). Just calling them "a transgender" is rude. Also, "transgender" isn't a gender. It's not specific enough, for one - which "way" is the person transgender? Are they MTF or FTM? Transgender people aren't some weird third gender. They are people whose gender identity doesn't match the gender that was assigned to them at birth. Often that gender assigned at birth does reflect a chromosomal sex (XX, XY), but sometimes it does not. One other thing: If we weren't specifically discussing her in the context of transgender athletes, the appropriate way to describe Ms. Abreu would be to say she is a woman. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jan 4, 2018 11:53:12 GMT -5
If LeBron and Serena had a kid, would that kid have a genetic advantage? If Lebron decided he wanted to be a women and went through the steps should he be able to compete in the womens basketball league? Come on! This is a straw man argument that reflects a deep misunderstanding of gender dysphoria and transgender people. Transgender people don't just up and decide one morning that they want to be a different gender than they are. It's not even a decision or a want. It's an inherent conflict between a person's assigned gender and the way they feel. If you're truly curious, here's some additional reading: www.psychiatry.org/patients-families/gender-dysphoria/what-is-gender-dysphoria |
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