Mick Haley "resigns" as USC coach

[loken]

Did you not read what I said? :-)

[mikegarrison]

Dec 20, 2017 7:46:57 GMT -5 The Bofa on the Sofa said:

Dec 19, 2017 15:08:55 GMT -5 ay2013 said:

Unless reasoning given is an explicit- "you are too old to do this job", I don't buy the whole age discrimination argument in this matter. Even arguments alluding to it such as your methods are too old school, or we want new blood doesn't pass the age discrimination test when it comes to an athletics program, IMO, but this is just public opinion, I haven't done any case law research or what questions a jury may need to answer (though this is all gonna settle anyway, assuming there is a suit).

I have no interest in arguing the merits of an age discrimination case. I was just explaining why, if a person feels that they have been harassed or discriminated against, "they should just leave their job" is not the appropriate response.

This is a mindset that needs to change.

I wouldn't go so far as to claim it's not always the appropriate response. Or at least -- appropriate is a loaded word. Let me say that sometimes just leaving the situation behind is the best option for the person involved. It's not the best option for the next person to get stuck in that same environment, but not everybody wants to donate a fraction of their life trying to fix things they can just walk away from.

On the other hand, there are times when fighting back is the best option. Or even, if not the best option by every measure of optimization, at least the one that the person involved wants to do.

There are times when it is worth fighting back instead of taking the easy way out just because it feels good to fight back.

[Freeman]

Dec 21, 2017 0:33:43 GMT -5 loken said:

Did you not read what I said? :-)

I usually try not to.

[brybast]

Dec 20, 2017 22:27:02 GMT -5 loken said:

So 3 assistants and not a single female? As a male coach, I cannot imagine getting a DI job and not taking a female assistant.  Is that normal in DI?  I am a bit surprised.

Maybe if Mick sues USC for age discrimination, they can countersue for gender discrimination.

[ay2013]

Dec 20, 2017 7:46:57 GMT -5 The Bofa on the Sofa said:

Dec 19, 2017 15:08:55 GMT -5 ay2013 said:

Unless reasoning given is an explicit- "you are too old to do this job", I don't buy the whole age discrimination argument in this matter. Even arguments alluding to it such as your methods are too old school, or we want new blood doesn't pass the age discrimination test when it comes to an athletics program, IMO, but this is just public opinion, I haven't done any case law research or what questions a jury may need to answer (though this is all gonna settle anyway, assuming there is a suit).

I have no interest in arguing the merits of an age discrimination case. I was just explaining why, if a person feels that they have been harassed or discriminated against, "they should just leave their job" is not the appropriate response.

This is a mindset that needs to change.

gotcha

[trojansc]

USC under Mick Haley

2017 25-10(14-6 PAC 2nd) Final Ranking: #7
2016 18-14(10-10 PAC 7th) Final Ranking: unranked
2015 33-3 (18-2 PAC 1st) Final Ranking: #5
2014 16-16(8-12 PAC 10th) Final Ranking: unranked
2013 29-6 (16-4 PAC 3rd) Final Ranking:#6
2012 30-6 (15-5 PAC 3rd) Final Ranking:#6
2011 29-5 (20-2 PAC 1st) Final Ranking:#3
2010 29-5 (14-4 PAC 3rd) Final Ranking:#3
2009 22-10(10-8 PAC 5th) Final Ranking:#16
2008 17-12(9-9 PAC 5th) Final Ranking: #13
2007 29-5 (14-4 PAC 3rd) Final Ranking: #3
2006 27-5 (14-4 PAC 4th) Final Ranking: #8
2005 17-11(12-6 PAC 4th) Final Ranking: #17
2004 23-6 (14-4 PAC 3rd) Final Ranking: #4
2003 35-0 (18-0 PAC 1st) Final Ranking: #1
2002 31-1 (17-1 PAC 1st) Final Ranking: #1
2001 25-4 (16-2 PAC 2nd) Final Ranking: #5

Just wanted to leave this here. Thank you Haley

[whurlitzer]

Hello Volley Talk community,

After lurking on this forum with increasing frequency, I finally registered because I wanted to post my championship game prediction. However, I didn’t know that it would take a few days to be approved. With the news of Mick Haley’s firing, I’ve been champing at the bit to an extent, thus the long post that follows.

I am far from an insider, just a fan who has attended many USC, Stanford and UCLA matches through the years, along with post-game receptions and banquets. I have some thoughts on Haley that I wanted to share, and while I don’t expect these observations to be revelatory to this community, I do believe that they are unique to the Haley threads that sprang up last weekend.

-- In early November, Haley talked about USC being a Final Four team, during both a Pac-12 Network interview and at a USC post-match reception. I liked the optimism, but after the 0-3 losses to Stanford and UCLA, I was quite suspect. He came awful close though, and not by benefitting from bracket upsets. In light of what we now know, I wonder if Haley was trying to will a Final Four into existence, speak it into being, with an urgency to change the course of his fate.

-- Haley said he was upset that his players likely would not hear the news of his firing from him directly, but given the writing that was on the wall, I wonder how much they knew and what they expected after the Florida loss. It did take a week for USC to make its announcement.

-- There has been a lot of discussion about the number of transfers out of USC under Haley. If this were a significant factor in Haley’s firing, it seems that USC would have solid grounds for not renewing his contract. In the Volleyballmag piece, Haley said the administration told him they were not firing him for cause.

-- I’ve read several comments about Southern California being such a fertile ground for recruiting and that USC recruits itself, the suggestion being that USC has underachieved in recent years. But how have UCLA’s postseasons stacked up since their surprise championship in 2011? Stanford has had its disappointments as well, particularly with high tournament seeds.

-- Haley’s sideline antics used to concern me. He was a madman during the 2007 semifinal. Since then, I’ve had the habit of looking for his reaction whenever USC makes a bad play. You still can catch moments of exasperation with his players, but I’ve noticed in recent years how much more positivity and reinforcement there is compared to the occasional outburst.

-- My perception of Haley changed dramatically after seeing the presser following the regional loss to Washington in 2013. He was devastated and clearly loved those players. He spoke glowingly of Nwanebu especially. The next year, at a post-match Q&A when the team was floundering, he was emphatic in his defense of Ebony and her injury.

-- At post-match receptions, of course parents are there, so Mick is not going to say anything untoward, but he regularly stresses the challenges his players face balancing school and volleyball, commending them and emphasizing their value to the university.

-- I understand that this is just a small sample, but April Ross, Natalie Hagglund, Kelli Tennant, Nicole Davis and Emily Adams, among other alums, have returned in recent years to visit with USC teams and speak at post-match receptions and banquets. And it’s not like I’ve been to dozens of these. Katie Fuller and Hayley Crone attended the banquet this past January. Davis and Bateman have been volunteer assistant coaches recently, and Alexis Olgard was the team’s Director of Operations this past season.

-- USC hired Clay Helton as its football coach nine days after a 20-point loss to Oregon. No one should be surprised if Mick Haley’s replacement is not a big name.

[bkedane]

USC has already heard "thanks but no thanks" from many coaches USC has contacted. USC is acting like this is the top job in the country when everyone they are contacting knows it is a good job but not the top job. USC has also shown no sign of paying top dollar for top talent so far.

[ProfessorPlum]

Dec 22, 2017 9:48:35 GMT -5 bkedane said:

USC has already heard "thanks but no thanks" from many coaches USC has contacted. USC is acting like this is the top job in the country when everyone they are contacting knows it is a good job but not the top job. USC has also shown no sign of paying top dollar for top talent so far.

Univ of Tenn has been hired to help manage the process

[hammer]

Dec 22, 2017 13:45:31 GMT -5 bigfan said:

Dec 22, 2017 9:48:35 GMT -5 bkedane said:

USC is acting like this is the top job in the country when everyone they are contacting knows it is a good job but not the top job. USC has also shown no sign of paying top dollar for top talent so far.

USC IS ONE OF THE TOP JOBS in the country.

I agree. As long as they can pony up a salary/benefits package commensurate with the prestige of their hire, they should be ok. They could go with a young gun, which will cost they less in salary but perhaps goose with performance bonuses, or they go with a coach with around 10 years experience with a solid track record (at a higher salary cost, but higher probability or success), or they could go elite level which gets you almost guaranteed success (like Sheff or Hugh, and essentially have to pay top dollar).

[geddyleeridesagain]

Dec 22, 2017 14:05:25 GMT -5 hammer said:

Dec 22, 2017 13:45:31 GMT -5 bigfan said:

USC IS ONE OF THE TOP JOBS in the country.

I agree. As long as they can pony up a salary/benefits package commensurate with the prestige of their hire, they should be ok. They could go with a young gun, which will cost they less in salary but perhaps goose with performance bonuses, or they go a coach with around 10 years experience with a solid track record (at a higher salary cost, but higher probability or success), or they could go elite level which gets you almost guaranteed success (like Sheff or Hugh, and essentially have to pay top dollar).

'SC is certainly one of the top jobs in the country from the perspective of name recognition, recruiting territory, conference affiliation and the like. But a little known fact about USC (or maybe it's not little known): Outside of football and men's basketball, USC is notoriously cheap. Sure, they have the money and the donors to put together a big compensation package for volleyball - say $500-600K per year, not including camps - but the question is are they willing to change their philosophy regarding non-revenue program hires and write a big check? I have my doubts, although I have no idea what direction they're going.

And there is a certain amount of arrogance within Heritage Hall about the value of the USC brand that is probably a little out of synch with reality, particularly when dealing with sports other than football.

[scottysocc]

With its history, it recruiting connections/location, and money, USC should be contending for titles every year. I hope they can find a coach that can help them do that.

[tomclen]

Dec 22, 2017 15:16:11 GMT -5 scottysocc said:

With its history, it recruiting connections/location, and money, USC should be contending for titles every year. I hope they can find a coach that can help them do that.

I don't get this thinking.

The last time USC football won a title was 13 years ago. They certainly haven't been 'contending' every year since then.

I don't think USC men's basketball has been to a FF since the 1950's!

And they should have a lot of recruiting connections/same location/and even more money for those two sports.

Also doesn't seem like USC women's BB has been setting the world on fire.

So why does everyone think USC Volleyball should be contending for a title every year?

And why was Haley's track record with VB so inferior to the other USC sports teams?

What am I overlooking here?

[scottysocc]

Dec 22, 2017 15:27:52 GMT -5 tomclen said:

Dec 22, 2017 15:16:11 GMT -5 scottysocc said:

With its history, it recruiting connections/location, and money, USC should be contending for titles every year. I hope they can find a coach that can help them do that.

I don't get this thinking.

The last time USC football won a title was 13 years ago. They certainly haven't been 'contending' every year since then.

I don't think USC men's basketball has been to a FF since the 1950's!

And they should have a lot of recruiting connections/same location/and even more money for those two sports.

Also doesn't seem like USC women's BB has been setting the world on fire.

So why does everyone think USC Volleyball should be contending for a title every year?

And why was Haley's track record with VB so inferior to the other USC sports teams?

What am I overlooking here?

My post wasn't a knock against Mick. I think he's done a great job with what we had. I just believe USC volleyball has a very high ceiling. 

[trojansc]

Dec 22, 2017 15:27:52 GMT -5 tomclen said:

Dec 22, 2017 15:16:11 GMT -5 scottysocc said:

With its history, it recruiting connections/location, and money, USC should be contending for titles every year. I hope they can find a coach that can help them do that.

I don't get this thinking.

The last time USC football won a title was 13 years ago. They certainly haven't been 'contending' every year since then.

I don't think USC men's basketball has been to a FF since the 1950's!

And they should have a lot of recruiting connections/same location/and even more money for those two sports.

Also doesn't seem like USC women's BB has been setting the world on fire.

So why does everyone think USC Volleyball should be contending for a title every year?

And why was Haley's track record with VB so inferior to the other USC sports teams?

What am I overlooking here?

USC was ranked top 10 to end the season in 12 of 17 years under Haley.

Men's Basketball, Baseball, Football, Women's Basketball, Women's Soccer have all had less overall success in that period of time than Mick Haley. Women's Soccer did just win a couple national championships, but they haven't had nearly the overall success that Haley has had.

The Water Polo program is iconic. They've had the most success of anyone really. The Men's program won 6 straight National Championships from 2008-2013, they played in the Finals every year since, but have finished as runner-up all 4 years. Three of those 4 are to UCLA, Ouch. But winning 6 straight is simply amazing in any sport. There's also only 4 teams in the NCAA Water Polo Tournament, so you have to figure that in relative to the 300+ D1 teams that volleyball competes against.

Jovan Vavic on both sides has 14 national championships between both the men's and women's teams.