Club and HS coaches: value of the "utility player"

[maɡˈnōlēə]

I was driving one of my daughters teammates home this past weekend and she was getting super frustrated with being moved around away from her usual position (she plays Lib/DS but there is another girl on their team that does as well). One of our pins was very sick over the weekend and coach pulled her to hit. She did ok, played RS, got a few kills in. For not having practiced as a hitter in over a year she filled in nicely.

I tried explaining to her the value of her skill set and how even though she may not be tall enough to hit at the college level (I think she is 5'7" or 5'8") that being of team mindset and doing what she needs to do to fill in is super valuable. She wasn't convinced of my words and just kept on and on with the negative talk. From what I could piece together she felt like she wasn't good enough as a Lib/DS and just used her to fill in. Obviously maybe she needs to take that up with her coach and do some positive reinforcement, IDK.

Anyway my daughter made mention that the girl who was sick maybe has mono 😷 and may be out awhile. i bet you can uess who may be not playing her usual position for a few weeks/month.

So I'd love to share what some of you more experienced types have to say about the utility player so that I can pass it along and help this kid feel a little better about it. So that when I drive these kids to/from tournaments I can speak a little more wisely than the "we'll i think…" kind of thing I did last time.

[shortshorts]

Many successful college and pro liberos started with roots in OH. In fact, I encourage my players to play OH to better their footwork and court awareness.

1. They learn how to play defense in position 5 and 6 rather than just position 5. Both of which are drastically different.
2. They learn new footwork; specifically, passing to transition hitting. Being comfortable with different movements is incredibly important in volleyball.
3. They learn from the offensive point of view on how to utilize seams, blocks, tips, etc.
4. It is fun to hit!

If she's being subbed out and playing OPP (in a traditional system) and not getting any passing reps then your daughter may be right. At a lower level, the OPP player is often the least important.

[eazy]

I think it is hard for some players to accept the utility player role. Realistically, 90% of utility players are the players that are not great at anything, so they have to be good at everything to ever have a role. It is hard for a young kid to admit they are not the best at something. Once they can come to terms with that, it will be much more fulfilling for them.
I think it should be a coach/player conversation, but understand that some coaches will shy away from it because they are scared of insulting the kid. I think it is worse for that kid to live in a false reality or in doubt. I’d want someone to be honest with me, so I am honest with players as much as I can be. However, I do not pretend to know the best way for a parent to approach this subject with a kids teammate other than advising them to talk to the coach (in a honest way, without complaining) if they are unhappy with their role.
As a coach, I think 1-2 role players on a team are incredibly important unless you have a solid backup in every single position. In college, they are less necessary, but I believe coaches still appreciate them.
Probably not the most helpful post, but my 2cents

[maɡˈnōlēə]

Apr 3, 2018 22:25:12 GMT -5 eazy said:

I think it is hard for some players to accept the utility player role. Realistically, 90% of utility players are the players that are not great at anything, so they have to be good at everything to ever have a role. It is hard for a young kid to admit they are not the best at something. Once they can come to terms with that, it will be much more fulfilling for them.
I think it should be a coach/player conversation, but understand that some coaches will shy away from it because they are scared of insulting the kid. I think it is worse for that kid to live in a false reality or in doubt. I’d want someone to be honest with me, so I am honest with players as much as I can be. However, I do not pretend to know the best way for a parent to approach this subject with a kids teammate other than advising them to talk to the coach (in a honest way, without complaining) if they are unhappy with their role.
As a coach, I think 1-2 role players on a team are incredibly important unless you have a solid backup in every single position. In college, they are less necessary, but I believe coaches still appreciate them.
Probably not the most helpful post, but my 2cents

So let me understand this because I'm reading two things. a the kid may not be "the best" but you need one or two of these "not the best" players to have an effective team because you will likely need these players in a pinch.

I won't repeat any of that to the kid because it's not my place and yes I think she should touch base with her coach on this (if she hasn't already, she may have).

To be fair in her usual role, purely from a not my kid parent perspective, she's a solid back court player, maybe not the best I've ever seen but has solid skills (maybe I don't get what that back row does as much as another parent whose kid is back there 24:7). The other Lib/DS makes a lot of errors, seems to have faulty footwork during game play (maybe she's stellar in practice, IDK) and gets tripped up, She doesn't always get digs to the setter (sometimes not even close).

If you have two defensive players how do you determine if one is better than the other, I honestly have very little idea on that back court game? Do you look at stats (which I always question because the ones taking stats may be friends/not friends with some of the players they're taking stats on)? How do you judge that as a coach if stats can be manipulated/missed?

[maɡˈnōlēə]

eazy I want to clarify I am not trying to be difficult. Just trying to understand.

I guess the whole coaches decisions thing sometimes throws us parents off and I appreciate the perspective you offered up.

[shortshorts]

It would help give advice knowing what age group your daughter is, and what type of realistic aspirations her club and team has.

[maɡˈnōlēə]

17's. 2's team

[donut]

Apr 3, 2018 21:47:02 GMT -5 maɡˈnōlēə said:

I was driving one of my daughters teammates home this past weekend and she was getting super frustrated with being moved around away from her usual position (she plays Lib/DS but there is another girl on their team that does as well). One of our pins was very sick over the weekend and coach pulled her to hit. She did ok, played RS, got a few kills in. For not having practiced as a hitter in over a year she filled in nicely.

I tried explaining to her the value of her skill set and how even though she may not be tall enough to hit at the college level (I think she is 5'7" or 5'8") that being of team mindset and doing what she needs to do to fill in is super valuable. She wasn't convinced of my words and just kept on and on with the negative talk. From what I could piece together she felt like she wasn't good enough as a Lib/DS and just used her to fill in. Obviously maybe she needs to take that up with her coach and do some positive reinforcement, IDK.

Anyway my daughter made mention that the girl who was sick maybe has mono 😷 and may be out awhile. i bet you can uess who may be not playing her usual position for a few weeks/month.

So I'd love to share what some of you more experienced types have to say about the utility player so that I can pass it along and help this kid feel a little better about it. So that when I drive these kids to/from tournaments I can speak a little more wisely than the "we'll i think…" kind of thing I did last time.

So she doesn’t think she’s good enough in the backrow and that’s why she’s been moved up front?

[maɡˈnōlēə]

IDK the thought process. Honestly. I kind of assume she's just upset she's being shuffled around.

I hope you aren't insinuating that the back row is less important than the front. I'm sure you aren't.

[shortshorts]

Apr 3, 2018 22:44:18 GMT -5 maɡˈnōlēə said:

17's. 2's team

Coaching philosophies differ. However, in most cases, the player who serve receives better will win out. Defense is flashy and catches the attention of the audience. However, steady serve receive wins games. I would have an honest evaluation of serve receive between your daughter and her "rival".

[Sorry Ass Sal]

I have a girl who is never a regular starter, but could play any position (except middle) in a pinch. She's a setter by trade, but is very adept on the pins and in serve receive. As part of her recruitment, I let her know that I didn't think she'd ever start, but could play a key role for us with her versatility. She's basically three people in one. And she's managed to stay healthy, so that's also a bonus. She's very special to me, because she embraces the role, works hard every day, and never complains about a thing.

[Sorry Ass Sal]

Also, serve receive is the key factor to it.

[eazy]

Apr 3, 2018 22:40:00 GMT -5 maɡˈnōlēə said:

Apr 3, 2018 22:25:12 GMT -5 eazy said:

I think it is hard for some players to accept the utility player role. Realistically, 90% of utility players are the players that are not great at anything, so they have to be good at everything to ever have a role. It is hard for a young kid to admit they are not the best at something. Once they can come to terms with that, it will be much more fulfilling for them.
I think it should be a coach/player conversation, but understand that some coaches will shy away from it because they are scared of insulting the kid. I think it is worse for that kid to live in a false reality or in doubt. I’d want someone to be honest with me, so I am honest with players as much as I can be. However, I do not pretend to know the best way for a parent to approach this subject with a kids teammate other than advising them to talk to the coach (in a honest way, without complaining) if they are unhappy with their role.
As a coach, I think 1-2 role players on a team are incredibly important unless you have a solid backup in every single position. In college, they are less necessary, but I believe coaches still appreciate them.
Probably not the most helpful post, but my 2cents

So let me understand this because I'm reading two things. a the kid may not be "the best" but you need one or two of these "not the best" players to have an effective team because you will likely need these players in a pinch.

I won't repeat any of that to the kid because it's not my place and yes I think she should touch base with her coach on this (if she hasn't already, she may have).

To be fair in her usual role, purely from a not my kid parent perspective, she's a solid back court player, maybe not the best I've ever seen but has solid skills (maybe I don't get what that back row does as much as another parent whose kid is back there 24:7). The other Lib/DS makes a lot of errors, seems to have faulty footwork during game play (maybe she's stellar in practice, IDK) and gets tripped up, She doesn't always get digs to the setter (sometimes not even close).

If you have two defensive players how do you determine if one is better than the other, I honestly have very little idea on that back court game? Do you look at stats (which I always question because the ones taking stats may be friends/not friends with some of the players they're taking stats on)? How do you judge that as a coach if stats can be manipulated/missed?

Yes, that's exactly it. To me, "Role Players" by definition are not the best on their team at anything (other than being well-rounded) or else they would have a starting spot in that position. 

In that situation as you describe it, the coach just has to decide if the role player can make up in point scoring in the front row for the loss of points by having a less skilled libero. For that decision, look at the set distribution to that role player and what their hitting percentage is compared to the next available option, if there is one. Also look at the passing stats for the roleplayer/starting libero compared to the replacement libero. Some club teams are small enough that they don't have a better option. Most college teams have enough back-ups that the role player is not as necessary, but certainly a nice bonus if they have a great personality. 

Deciding between two DS/Liberos can be very challenging or very easy. That position especially is hard to evaluate because you have to include a lot of aspects. The most important is probably SR Stats (which is easy), but also keep in mind how much of the court they are taking up. A libero passing a 2.00 might be better than a libero passing a 2.10 if they are taking up half the court instead of a third. Then you have to include digging, which is harder to stat because the opportunities to get digs are certainly not even from set to set. Then you have to include the intangibles that they bring (enthusiasm, volume, knowledge of defensive schemes). Then lastly you have to include their ability to put up a hittable second contact if the setter digs.

So like I said, sometimes it's super easy to pick if one DS is better at all of them. Sometimes you have one DS that is better at defense and one that is better in SR.. In that situation maybe you use two liberos (but I don't know many players that work well in that situation), maybe you decide what is important for any given matchup, or maybe you pick the kid with the better intangibles. Regardless, in those situations it is probably going to be challenging to explain to parents/fans why one is better than the other, but that's why we make the big bucks... I mean, that's why some of us make some bucks. 

[sonofdogman]

I wish I coached kids who had more than just their own parent helping them figure things out...

you will make things worse, so go ahead and mess things up for someone else's kid...

[rainbowbadger]

Apr 4, 2018 1:23:57 GMT -5 Sorry Ass Sal said:

I have a girl who is never a regular starter, but could play any position (except middle) in a pinch. She's a setter by trade, but is very adept on the pins and in serve receive. As part of her recruitment, I let her know that I didn't think she'd ever start, but could play a key role for us with her versatility. She's basically three people in one. And she's managed to stay healthy, so that's also a bonus. She's very special to me, because she embraces the role, works hard every day, and never complains about a thing.

I’m not a coach, but I’d think a kid like this would be a coach’s dream.