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Post by huskerjen on Aug 7, 2018 8:24:34 GMT -5
I put together a graphic comparison of VT's Top 25 vs. PrepVB's College Insider's Top 20 preseason polls below. I'll try and put together a graphic comparison of the AVCA Top 25 vs. the VT Top 25 after each poll comes out.
Because really, it's all about the bragging rights for VT members versus the AVCA voters. 
Schools placed evenly in both polls: Stanford, Nebraska, Kentucky, and Cal Poly.
Schools 1 place off: Minnesota, Texas, USC, Creighton, and Iowa St.
Schools 2 places off: Florida, Oregon, UCLA, Baylor, San Diego, and Purdue.
Schools 3 places off: Wisconsin and BYU.
Schools with a 4 or more places off: Penn St., Illinois, Colorado, Washington, and Utah.
VT's Top 25 schools not in College Insider's Top 20:
Pittsburgh, Michigan, Marquette, Louisville, and Colorado St. (and schools receiving votes on VT: Missouri, Washington St., Hawaii, and Wichita St.).
The fact that Prep's insider didn't have Michigan in their top 25 is egregious, imo. They return Skjodt, Welsh, Lerg, and had a strong recruiting class. |
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Post by donut on Aug 7, 2018 8:40:18 GMT -5
I will start by saying that I am a little insulted that I wasn’t selected as a voter but hey maybe I don’t make enough noise on this board to be noticed. As someone who has created and contributed to several threads throughout the season and is an avid watcher maybe it’s my own envy showing but as far as the voters go I see quite a few users whose names I haven’t seen ever in some match threads so that tells me take the poll with a grain of salt. I have thought this would be a cool idea for awhile though so good for you guys implementing it. Honestly a volleytalk poll might be a more accurate reflection than the actual AVCA poll. This 100% would have been better via PM to vbprisoner. I hate to be that girl, but in addition to the username, you've also only posted on average slightly more than 1 post per month in 2018. I understand it's the #offseason but you may not have been as fresh on people's minds. Additionally, instead of invalidating a poll because you don't recognize names, want to talk about any major grievances you have with the preseason poll that would cause you to "take the poll with a grain of salt?" Seriously, the point of this thread is to debate, disagree, criticize, etc. I know I was one of the last people selected as part of ~~THE 30~~ but I'm humbled and thankful. |
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Post by donut on Aug 7, 2018 8:52:36 GMT -5
I was an average of 3.7 spots off for the list. The largest difference was Pittsburgh who I had 18 spots lower followed by Marquette at 11 spots. I was slightly more accurate on Big Ten teams at an average of 3.4 spots different, but it wasn't to their benefit as I had both Michigan and Purdue on the outside looking in. Spot Difference List 0 - Stanford, Minnesota 1 - Texas, BYU, Kentucky, UCLA, Washington, San Diego, Iowa State 2 - Nebraska, Penn State, Illinois, Colorado, Louisville 3 - Wisconsin, Florida, Oregon, Creighton 5 - Baylor, Cal Poly 6 - USC 7 - Michigan, Colorado St. 8 - Purdue 11 - Marquette 18 - Pittsburgh Teams I Had In: Hawaii, Utah, Missouri, Wichita St., Western Ky. I like this. I was 1.96 spots off. I had Utah and Washington State in. I did not have Michigan, Iowa State or Colorado State. |
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Post by vbprisoner on Aug 7, 2018 8:56:40 GMT -5
I was an average of 3.7 spots off for the list. The largest difference was Pittsburgh who I had 18 spots lower followed by Marquette at 11 spots. I was slightly more accurate on Big Ten teams at an average of 3.4 spots different, but it wasn't to their benefit as I had both Michigan and Purdue on the outside looking in. Spot Difference List 0 - Stanford, Minnesota 1 - Texas, BYU, Kentucky, UCLA, Washington, San Diego, Iowa State 2 - Nebraska, Penn State, Illinois, Colorado, Louisville 3 - Wisconsin, Florida, Oregon, Creighton 5 - Baylor, Cal Poly 6 - USC 7 - Michigan, Colorado St. 8 - Purdue 11 - Marquette 18 - Pittsburgh Teams I Had In: Hawaii, Utah, Missouri, Wichita St., Western Ky. I like this. I was 1.96 spots off. I had Utah and Washington State in. I did not have Michigan, Iowa State or Colorado State. Are you sure you were 1.96 spots off?... or was it really everyone else was about 1.96 spots off you!  LOL |
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Post by donut on Aug 7, 2018 8:56:47 GMT -5
Kentucky is way, way better than 7th. Edmond, Skinner, and Lilley are the best OH/S trio in the country, and Curry is going to surprise people. I had Kentucky at 3. I had them at 4 - Texas and Wisky being above them is befuddling. |
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Post by donut on Aug 7, 2018 8:58:33 GMT -5
I like this. I was 1.96 spots off. I had Utah and Washington State in. I did not have Michigan, Iowa State or Colorado State. Are you sure you were 1.96 spots off?... or was it really everyone else was about 1.96 spots off you! LOL  I aim to be average. (lol you know what I meant) |
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 7, 2018 9:01:18 GMT -5
IMO, the top 13 is pretty solid for a preseason poll (as reflected by the 13 teams in this poll). After that, there are about 30 teams that are in contention for the next 12 spots. I also was someone that didn't have San Diego in the top 25, not that they aren't as deserving as those other 29 teams (outside the top 13). Washington State - I didn't have them in my top 25. They finished last year #34 in Pablo. Yes, they return almost all of their team, but at the same time their roster is still pretty light in terms of senior aces, all-American, all-conference, etc... I will be in the minority on this - but I don't see a material difference between Washington State and Michigan State, even though they are coming from completely different spots. Michigan State loses almost all of their team, but has much higher rated players in terms of senior aces. I don’t see the comparison of Washington State and Michigan State here. This WSU team is lead by a bunch of seniors that have made the 2nd round of the tournament two years in a row (despite injuries). They took out at large teams in route, losing to top 4 seeds. So what!? In that same time frame they have wins against Kentucky, Washington, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and USC- all top 25 ranked tournament teams. Sure WSU May have a ceiling and are inconsistent but they have proven the ability to win against quality teams. WTF has Michigan State proven? Absolutely nothing. I’m not saying WSU is going to challenge for the national title or wouldn’t get stomped by a top 5 team- but that’s completely separate from saying that they are among the best 25 teams teams entering the season, many of whom also surely aren’t challenging for a national title and can get stomped by a top 5 team. I was just suggesting that (IMO) these two teams are (should be) similarly rated - among the 30 teams contending for those last 12 spots in the preseason poll, yet how they got there is completely opposite. As you stated, one is a senior team returning most of their players and the other is starting all over with new players.
If WSU suffered injuries that caused issues last year and if healthy would have been much better - than that is compelling for them being better this year. To say the #34 team last year is returning most of its team and will now jump to being a ~ #20 team - that is not compelling to me. I didn't factor in the 1st part - I don't have perfect knowledge (far from it) - I relied more on the 2nd part.
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Post by donut on Aug 7, 2018 9:04:08 GMT -5
I don’t see the comparison of Washington State and Michigan State here. This WSU team is lead by a bunch of seniors that have made the 2nd round of the tournament two years in a row (despite injuries). They took out at large teams in route, losing to top 4 seeds. So what!? In that same time frame they have wins against Kentucky, Washington, UCLA, Stanford, Oregon and USC- all top 25 ranked tournament teams. Sure WSU May have a ceiling and are inconsistent but they have proven the ability to win against quality teams. WTF has Michigan State proven? Absolutely nothing. I’m not saying WSU is going to challenge for the national title or wouldn’t get stomped by a top 5 team- but that’s completely separate from saying that they are among the best 25 teams teams entering the season, many of whom also surely aren’t challenging for a national title and can get stomped by a top 5 team. I was just suggesting that (IMO) these two teams are (should be) similarly rated - among the 30 teams contending for those last 12 spots in the preseason poll, yet how they got there is completely opposite. As you stated, one is a senior team returning most of their players and the other is starting all over with new players.
If WSU suffered injuries that caused issues last year and if healthy would have been much better - than that is compelling for them being better this year. To say the #34 team last year is returning most of its team and will now jump to being a ~ #20 team - that is not compelling to me. I didn't factor in the 1st part - I don't have perfect knowledge (far from it) - I relied more on the 2nd part.
Isn't it counter-intuitive to say then that Michigan State, because it lost most of its team, jumps from #7 (in final Pablo) to unranked? |
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Post by SportyBucky on Aug 7, 2018 9:40:26 GMT -5
I had them at 4 - Texas and Wisky being above them is befuddling. Oh really? Hmmm... |
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Post by donut on Aug 7, 2018 9:52:13 GMT -5
I had them at 4 - Texas and Wisky being above them is befuddling. Oh really? Hmmm... I'm really rooting for Wisconsin this year because I think they have the potential to win the NC, but I think they have many more questions to answer than Kentucky. Kentucky has one of the best setters in the country and the best OH combo in the country IMO. I think they can ride those two players and still be top 10. I'm hoping Sheff moves some players around a little, which may result in some early losses. FTR, my order went 4 - Kentucky, 5 - Texas, 6 - Wisconsin. |
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bluepenquin
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Posts: 13,306
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Post by bluepenquin on Aug 7, 2018 10:44:53 GMT -5
I was just suggesting that (IMO) these two teams are (should be) similarly rated - among the 30 teams contending for those last 12 spots in the preseason poll, yet how they got there is completely opposite. As you stated, one is a senior team returning most of their players and the other is starting all over with new players.
If WSU suffered injuries that caused issues last year and if healthy would have been much better - than that is compelling for them being better this year. To say the #34 team last year is returning most of its team and will now jump to being a ~ #20 team - that is not compelling to me. I didn't factor in the 1st part - I don't have perfect knowledge (far from it) - I relied more on the 2nd part.
Isn't it counter-intuitive to say then that Michigan State, because it lost most of its team, jumps from #7 (in final Pablo) to unranked? My process was to evaluate each roster and make an opinion on how good I think each team will be this season - essentially I am looking for 2018 ending Pablo ranking (a nearly impossible task). My process with Michigan State is to say since they are losing 80% of their production from last year - where they finished in Pablo last year means nothing for this year. I am just trying to look at their roster for this year and guess how good I think they will be - which in my opinion is among 30 teams in that #14-45 range. Since Washington State's roster is mostly unchanged from last year - then last year's Pablo matters (to me). |
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Post by volleyguy on Aug 7, 2018 10:58:46 GMT -5
Where's the link to the excel file containing each voters ranked list?
Who's going to be the Mick Haley of the group and use his/her vote to torpedo certain teams or conferences?
Who's going to ask their friend/spouse/partner/dog/cat to fill,out their poll for them?
Who's going to submit their poll without having watched any matches or, more likely, hungover?
So many questions, and so few answers.
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Post by vballvball on Aug 7, 2018 11:41:15 GMT -5
Where's the link to the excel file containing each voters ranked list? Who's going to be the Mick Haley of the group and use his/her vote to torpedo certain teams or conferences? Who's going to ask their friend/spouse/partner/dog/cat to fill,out their poll for them? Who's going to submit their poll without having watched any matches or, more likely, hungover? So many questions, and so few answers. Maybe vbp should actively add and remove people from the list of thirty that can vote during the season. |
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Post by Barefoot In Kailua on Aug 7, 2018 11:50:56 GMT -5
Where's the link to the excel file containing each voters ranked list? Who's going to be the Mick Haley of the group and use his/her vote to torpedo certain teams or conferences? Who's going to ask their friend/spouse/partner/dog/cat to fill,out their poll for them? Who's going to submit their poll without having watched any matches or, more likely, hungover? So many questions, and so few answers. Maybe vbp should actively add and remove people from the list of thirty that can vote during the season. Members should only be removed if they can’t meet their responsibilities as voters in VT’s top 25 poll. It’s not a good idea to mix and match the voters. |
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Post by naujack85 on Aug 7, 2018 12:00:49 GMT -5
Interesting how little the loss of Lexi Sun has done to people's opinion of Texas. They also lost their best pin hitter and a 4 year starting libero to graduation. UT definitely has some big question marks entering this season. |
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