Some ideas for fixing what is more than broke.

[IdahoBoy]

I'm going to start by saying that this is by far the worst job seeding teams that I've ever seen or ever imagined. Everyone involved in the process should be heavily ashamed of themselves.

The NCAA committee screwed up. I can find a million ways that they violated their own guidelines which were presented by Sharon Cessna at the AVCA convention last Final Four in Dallas (and available at the AVCA website).

Things HAVE to change. By not seeding the teams even half-assedly, they are not giving due credit to the sport. The NCAA as a whole body should be very ashamed. If I were the head coach at any of 12-14 institutions this season, I would highly consider boycotting the NCAA's in protest.

Here are some of my suggestions to make changes:

Since they seem to enjoy the idea of the pre-determined Regionals, they should seed ALL 64 teams. No more of this "place by Region" crap. If their intention is to get more areas of the country exposed to the sport they are doing a great disservice. By sending teams across the nation you are exposing fans and potential athletes to new schools to follow. By keeping the regionalization, you are not giving them anything new to experience.

Set guidelines for seedings and FOLLOW them!!! Sheesh. Here's an idea: You seed a team as a 1-seed in their region and let them stay at home for the first rounds because, by giving them the high seed, you are acknowledging that you expect them to win. By expecting them to win, you acknowledge that these STUDENT-ATHLETES (a term the NCAA seems to ignore, nowadays) are expected to be playing for a longer portion of the semester which extends the season into school time. By allowing the teams that will be playing longer to stay home, you are giving them an opportunity to actually get school-work done.

Actually follow the season. I cannot believe for a second that these ladies have put as much into following the season this year as the powerpoint presentation that Sharon Cessna gave last season indicates. If they had, they'd be able to seed the teams with the respect that they deserve. There are more tools available to volleyball followers nowadays than ever before. I honestly believe that the average fan has more and better information at their fingertips than the AVCA or the NCAA Selection Committee has.

The RPI has to go. It's a very crude tool and ranking system that obviously doesn't matter when putting together the teams anyway. If the NCAA used a system with a better ratio of performance than the RPI they'd have a much better starting point to do their massaging and manipulating.

And finally, I think that all of the NCAA Selection Committee members should be held accountable for their mistakes. Last season, all the complaints were directed towards Sharon Cessna who responded with a dry, meaningless, boiler-template response of thanks for watching volleyball. I think a committee to oversee the results of the Selection Committee should be established.

End Regionalization in volleyball. Seed all the teams, appropriately.

[IdahoBoy]

Consequences that the NCAA does not consider:

For one: The University of Hawaii volleyball girls are packed and have tried to make all the arrangements to end their semester today. It's not even December (3-weeks of school left) and they quite likely will not be back in school this semester.

What kind of emphasis on the student-athlete does this show by the NCAA? I think a lawsuit over this bracket should be highly considered for many reasons:

Many schools like Hawaii, Florida, Stanford, etc. have spent the past 14+ years building up some of the best fan-bases in the country. Why should they be punished for their success?

I can understand why Hawaii was sent packing in 2001. The nation was willing to make sacrifices in such a time of crisis. But there is something seriously wrong with the way the teams were seeded this season.

The Regionalization format does nothing but reward teams in geographic volleyball isolation.



Another thing... the NCAA made a very bold statement in 2002 by omitting AVCA 19th ranked and RPI 17 Eastern Washington punishing them for their strength of schedule. However, they seemingly reverse that this season by rewarding Penn State, Washington, Nebraska, Florida A&M, and many others for their paltry sos.

By the way, I'm not spitting mad because Hawaii was shafted. I love the whole sport. I am focused on Hawaii because of proximity and ties, but I am equally appalled at the situation in Florida, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Missouri, Lousiville, etc. etc. etc. There were so many butt-headed decisions that I don't even know where to begin.

[Deleted]

Start here: how do they re-format the Championship and keep it economically viable?

Can they expand? How about seeding 32 teams with another 16 coming from 8 prelimary pools of 8 teams, geographically located, played the first weekend? 2 from each pool advance into the 2nd weekend. Top 16 have a bye and host, the other 2 teams play each other for right to play the 16 top seeds.

16 teams advance to 4 Regionals. The rest is the same.

My point is they need a format to fit their guidelines, but one that is still fair--i.e., one that rewards the season's results and the attendance of the program.

Now you have 8 preliminary sites, distributed throughout the country. You only have TWO schools travelling to the sub-regional.

[whatevergoes]

agree!!!!!

looking for some accountability to happen...

as far as what at-large bids get given out.. I just think the selection committe had somewhere else to be.

They need to explain themselves on why some schools got in while others didn't and deserved to get in!!

[itsallaboutme]

Why is this now such a travesty? Where was the incredible outrage when Nebraska was sent else where when it was a #1 seed. We accepted it & moved on. Huskers could make good on the gate receipts. So, we must assume money is not the reason for sending #1 seeds off to less then deserving sites.

Lets not get carried away here. There is no way to make everyone happy...ever!!!!

[YellowC]

I agree with above. Hawaii was sent to Nebraska in 2002 but stayed home last year. IT didn't seem to make a difference in how far the Wahine went.

With that said..... Sending 3 teams to beautiful Hawaii would be a reward to ALL teams involved. Sending 2 teams to Colorado and keeping the Colorado teams home is a punishment.

[I Luv Danny R]

I think its a pleasure to play in Hawaii!!! Some of the girls won't never play in Stan Sherriffs Center

[FreeBall]

[quote author=IdahoBoy®® link=board=general&thread=1101773951&start=1#0 date=1101774430] I think a lawsuit over this bracket should be highly considered for many reasons:

Many schools like Hawaii, Florida, Stanford, etc. have spent the past 14+ years building up some of the best fan-bases in the country. Why should they be punished for their success?

I can understand why Hawaii was sent packing in 2001. The nation was willing to make sacrifices in such a time of crisis. But there is something seriously wrong with the way the teams were seeded this season.

The Regionalization format does nothing but reward teams in geographic volleyball isolation. [/quote]

At the outset, let me say that I don't disagree with all of what you are saying. However, the portion of your rant that I have excerpted above is a real hoot!

A lawsuit? On what legal basis? The "reasons" that you list do not come close to making a case. It would be thrown out immediately as baseless and frivolous.

Institutions such as Hawaii, Nebraska, et al "choose" to belong to the NCAA. As such, they agree to abide by the many rules that govern it's operations. Do the rules always make sense? Do we as fans always like the result of the application of these rules? The answers to these and other similar questions are certainly NO! But, as members, the institutions must bite the bullet and live with the results.

Perhaps your righteous indignation will ultimately lead to sucessful reforms. However, I would not expect anything to happen anytime soon or in anything other than small incremental steps. The institutions working within the system might have the power to bring about change. Baseless lawsuits and civil disobedience at sites of matches will lead nowhere in my opinion.

[Gorf]

YellowC said:

I agree with above. Hawaii was sent to Nebraska in 2002 but stayed home last year. IT didn't seem to make a difference in how far the Wahine went.

With that said..... Sending 3 teams to beautiful Hawaii would be a reward to ALL teams involved. Sending 2 teams to Colorado and keeping the Colorado teams home is a punishment.

Oddly enough some people prefer snow skiing to surfing.

I tend to prefer neither, I'd drown trying to do one and break my neck doing the other.

[vbfan]

How come cost was not such a factor in 2000 and all the year's before. I can't believe they are still living off this 9-11 stuff. Hey the rest of society is trying to put that awful day behind us and look to the future, why won't the NCAA committee. I think the regional hosting this year in Green Bay and Louisville was a HUGE mistake. Host it where you can actually make money, Nebraska, Florida, Texas, Hawaii.

[norwis]

I will heartily agree Green Bay hosting is a reach. It's not an easy place to get to and with the Packers are playing in town, good luck getting a hotel room or a bar stool to sit on. But the Badgers gotta love it.

[TheWiseOne]

I totally agree that the "regionalization" has got to go. It seems as though they find what they think are the best 16 teams, seed those, and then the next 48 can just go wherever its "economically feasible". That is not right.

There are plenty of good teams, the best of the "unseeded" bunch, that will have to fight and claw to win their FIRST ROUND matches. Whereas Albany plays Yale (by the way, those are two deserving teams, just trying to make a point).

I agree that we need to seed them all. 16 seeds in each of the four regions. Some teams will have to travel, but that is OK. There are enough already traveling a good distance in this "regionalization" effort.

My idea: put eight teams at a location. You can do two sub-regionals at the same site. The two sub-regionals don't have to be from the same regional.

For instance, using this year's bracket:
Green Bay Regional
Notre Dame vs. Valparaiso
Loyola vs. Wisconsin

Seattle Regional
Maryland vs. Towson
American vs. Penn State

PLAY ALL OF THESE MATCHES AT PENN STATE AND SEED ALL TEAMS IN EACH REGION!

The bad things are:
1. Seven teams will have to travel
2. The regionalization of the teams might have to go

The good things are:
1. Way more fans
2. Many of the west coast teams can stay fairly close to home.

And like I said, the two subregionals that play in the same place don't have to be from the same regional, although they can be.

The biggest problem with this mess is that the NCAA only seeds 16 of the teams. Then, its left up to people like us to "justify" why the "unseeded teams" are placed where they are. For example: You would assume that Hawaii, being the top seed in their region, would start with playing the worst team in the region. Obviously, Colorado is NOT the worst team in the region. We've talked about Hawaii injustice nonstop since the pairings came out, but regardless of how "economical" you are trying to make all teams' travel needs, you are doing a disservice to one of the best teams in the land, while Yale gets to play Albany in round one just because they are "close". Better teams play all year long to get better seeds, so they can have EASIER DRAWS to the tourney. That needs to be the # 1 priority when making the pairings... and NOT travel. All you get is a big mess.

Anyway, I might have more, but surely that's enough to chew on.

If nothing else, SEED EVERYONE! Then try to accomodate travel after that.

One more thing... you think Louisville won't be a good host??? You have another thing coming. Louisville will most likely get the most ticket-buyers that have no affiliation to any of the teams that make it to that regional. I almost guarantee it. Louisville hosts junior national and adult national championships at least one every four years. The volleyball base there is probably bgger than any other of the four regional sites. I expect Louisville to have the most attendance, regardless of the teams that get there.

[sonofbarcelonabob]

Hehe. File a lawsuit. That's pretty dayum funny!

;D

[pineapple]

FreeBall said:

At the outset, let me say that I don't disagree with all of what you are saying. However, the portion of your rant that I have excerpted above is a real hoot!

A lawsuit? On what legal basis? The "reasons" that you list do not come close to making a case. It would be thrown out immediately as baseless and frivolous.

Institutions such as Hawaii, Nebraska, et al "choose" to belong to the NCAA. As such, they agree to abide by the many rules that govern it's operations. Do the rules always make sense? Do we as fans always like the result of the application of these rules? The answers to these and other similar questions are certainly NO! But, as members, the institutions must bite the bullet and live with the results.

Perhaps your righteous indignation will ultimately lead to sucessful reforms. However, I would not expect anything to happen anytime soon or in anything other than small incremental steps. The institutions working within the system might have the power to bring about change. Baseless lawsuits and civil disobedience at sites of matches will lead nowhere in my opinion.

You said: "A lawsuit? On what legal basis? The "reasons" that you list do not come close to making a case. It would be thrown out immediately as baseless and frivolous."

Anyone can file a lawsuit. In this case, I don't think it would be frivolous if it's for due process. There is a strong appearance that hawaii and some other schools were screwed. It's not for any of us to make that determination one way or the other because we are bias ourselves. This is where a responsible third party comes in- in this case, the court.

You also said: "Institutions such as Hawaii, Nebraska, et al 'choose' o belong to the NCAA. As such, they agree to abide by the many rules that govern it's operations. Do the rules always make sense? Do we as fans always like the result of the application of these rules? The answers to these and other similar questions are certainly NO! But, as members, the institutions must bite the bullet and live with the results."

You'd raise a chuckle or two if you try to argue that in court. Colleges do not "choose" to belong to the NCAA, they choose to have inter-collegiate sports. The NCAA is the association delegated to administer college sports. I stress "delegated." The NCAA does not rule college sports but takes orders from the college members. It's a grounds up operation. The members rule the Association. This being said, if the NCAA rules do not make sense, then there is a possiblity that the rules were instituted without the prior approval of the member colleges. It could be that the NCAA has become a monster that the master cannot control.

With due process no one has to live with rules that don't make sense. There is no due process in China, Cuba and Iran and other countries with a dictatorial form of government. Without due process, we are at the mercy of the governing body. Without an appeal process, the NCAA monster can make arbitrary decisions convenient to itself. GIve BiK credit for knowing that the NCAA can be held accountable.

BiK has a valid complaint: It does appear that Hawaii- the #1 team in the country, the only unbeaten team in the country, the third-seeded team in the nation ( even this seed is subject to accountability by the NCAA) was given an unfair treatment. The NCAA can be made to hold a public hearing on the fairness of its determinations. They would be blasted by people like BiK. But this is what democracy is all about.

But, of course, doing so would put a stop to the payoffs.
And BiK would have to wear shoes in court.

[islandgirl]

Actually Freeball is right. Sure anyone can file a lawsuit but it would probably be thrown out. The NCAA committee is given a lot of discretion unfortunately. For every rule anyone can point to that was violated, they would be able to point to another to say that was what they based their decision on.

I'm sure the NCAA has an appeal process but as I stated in another thread, UH has decided not to even file a formal complaint. No one else here has standing to pursue it.