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Post by pineapple on Dec 1, 2004 16:24:53 GMT -5
[quote author=BearClause link=board=general&thread=1101878147&start=20#1 date=1101919270]I remember saying that I thought there were setters other than Kanoe Kamana`o who I thought might be worthy (perhaps more worthy) of being 1st team AA. That got quite a response, and not all of it was pretty. At that point, it felt like a Hawaii shout-down.[/quote] I am not accountable for the comments made by other Wahine fans. As for me, I will not react negatively to earnest opinions like that. Only to "opinions" laced with disparaging remarks. Am I making myself clear?
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Post by BearClause on Dec 1, 2004 16:50:30 GMT -5
I am not accountable for the comments made by other Wahine fans. As for me, I will not react negatively to earnest opinions like that. Only to "opinions" laced with disparaging remarks. Am I making myself clear? Sure. However - here's my post and BiK's reaction to it: [quote author= BearClause link=board=general&thread=1100733190&start=4#0 date=1100739264] Putting my flame suit on, there are a lot of worthy candidates for 1st team AA setter. I'd put Courtney Thompson at Washington ahead of Kamana`o at this point, and possibly even Marissa Main at Ohio State. Both are dishing out over 14 assist/game and both of their teams are hitting over .300 in "power" conferences. For good measure, look at how Sam Tortello is doing at Penn State. The single biggest stats the AA selection committee are **supposed** to consider for setters are team hitting % and assists/game.[/quote] [quote author= BiK link=board=general&thread=1100733190&start=5#0 date=1100739963] Kamana'o is undefeated this season. She has lost only 2 Matches in her collegiate career ( to 2 teams that played for the National Championship last season!). Thompson, Tortorello, Main? Um let me guess, must be the competition? Your opinion is noted, heck you've given it enough times. [/quote]
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Post by Island on Dec 1, 2004 17:14:02 GMT -5
I see your point about Tortorello and Thompson but I am surprised to see people push Main's statistics and not her intangibles. She feeds Gordon so statistics have to be a little doubted. That's when anecdotal evidence should come into play. Gordon has never really had an off night even when the team struggled this season. Is that because of Main or herself or the scheme?
With Main, she gets almost half her assists from Gordon alone per game. I remember some who argued that the only reason why Kamana'o won freshman of the year (besides the Kristin Richards-Thompson-Carter debacle) was that she had Willoughby to lean on for assist totals. You could make the same argument here. Since I've never seen Main play so some first-hand experience would probably be more compelling than statistics in her case.
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Post by Gorf on Dec 1, 2004 17:21:57 GMT -5
Stacey's numbers are up this year compared to last yeear and arguably the most significant difference for the Ohio State team is the addition of Marisa.
Last year's Buckeye setters worked hard but weren't at the level that Marisa is at this year.
Your comments discounting her assists because they go largely to Stacey could easily have been applied to Kanoe last year in setting primarily Kim and Lily all season yet that issue wasn't held against her as she was voted the FOY.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2004 17:24:25 GMT -5
This is true. But even more significant is that OSU has a middle attack this year + Stevens on the left and McCarthy on the right. They really were JUST Gordon last year.
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Post by Island on Dec 1, 2004 17:37:22 GMT -5
Your comments discounting her assists because they go largely to Stacey could easily have been applied to Kanoe last year in setting primarily Kim and Lily all season yet that issue wasn't held against her as she was voted the FOY. Didn't I point this out Gorf? That's exactly the argument I was making. Why throw something that I already threw out? Unless you throw things much farther than me like Justin verlander who can long toss a baseball the length of a football field. Ruffda, that's the kind of thing I was looking for. Are they that much better than last years or is it because of setting and scheme? Some middles are just more effective with a particular type of setter and that's what I was looking for, to see if that's the case. My argument is that the interaction between the Non-Gordon player will tell more than Main's or Gordon's stats. As Ruffda said, Gordon is better this year because the team is better this year(I reject the great player doing statistically better on a worse team, hitting efficiency ususally exposes that).
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Post by Island on Dec 1, 2004 17:40:45 GMT -5
BTW Ruffda Hoy espanol muy menor pero Does your caption say you "I am I" [quote author=(R)uffda! link=board=general&thread=1101878147&start=34#2 date=1101939865]This is true. But even more significant is that OSU has a middle attack this year + Stevens on the left and McCarthy on the right. They really were JUST Gordon last year.[/quote]
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Post by pineapple on Dec 1, 2004 17:45:41 GMT -5
[quote author=BearClause link=board=general&thread=1101878147&start=31#2 date=1101937830]
Sure. However - here's my post and BiK's reaction to it:
on Nov 17th, 2004, 2:54pm, BearClause wrote:Putting my flame suit on, there are a lot of worthy candidates for 1st team AA setter. I'd put Courtney Thompson at Washington ahead of Kamana`o at this point, and possibly even Marissa Main at Ohio State. Both are dishing out over 14 assist/game and both of their teams are hitting over .300 in "power" conferences. For good measure, look at how Sam Tortello is doing at Penn State. The single biggest stats the AA selection committee are **supposed** to consider for setters are team hitting % and assists/game.
on Nov 17th, 2004, 3:06pm, BiK wrote:Kamana'o is undefeated this season. She has lost only 2 Matches in her collegiate career ( to 2 teams that played for the National Championship last season!). Thompson, Tortorello, Main? Um let me guess, must be the competition?
Your opinion is noted, heck you've given it enough times.
[/quote] BiK's reply is still a friendly volly, on the same level as yours. Nothing disparaging about it. If he had said something like " you a_ _hole, are you drunk??" that would be something else. I will come back later and give you an example of the kind of "opinions" I've reacted to. So check back later.
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Post by Gorf on Dec 1, 2004 17:45:42 GMT -5
Other than Stacey they're pretty much an entirely different team than last year.
From what I recall they have 7 freshmen and 2 transfer (Main at setter and Mapp at middle).
So there is certainly an impact form the play of the new additions to the team.
I do think though, that Marisa is as significant an addition to the Buckeyes as anyone else and perhaps more significant.
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Post by Island on Dec 1, 2004 17:47:19 GMT -5
Pac-10 fans pointed it out and I could see the argument but Kamana'o does do other thing well too. I haven't really heard any argument about Main's other attributes. I think they said she's a good passer. Every time people talk about Main, it goes straight to assists. That all I am trying to do, broaden the argument. I'm not discounting but where as someone like Labland or Thompson has a great anecdotal reason behind their assist totals, Main has the potential POY just as Kamana'o did. The argument can be used against both setters but Kamana'o's didn't reach the committee. We have to see for Main. Stacey's numbers are up this year compared to last yeear and arguably the most significant difference for the Ohio State team is the addition of Marisa. Last year's Buckeye setters worked hard but weren't at the level that Marisa is at this year. Your comments discounting her assists because they go largely to Stacey could easily have been applied to Kanoe last year in setting primarily Kim and Lily all season yet that issue wasn't held against her as she was voted the FOY.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2004 18:36:09 GMT -5
BTW (R)uffda! Hoy espanol muy menor pero Does your caption say you "I am I" Si. Yo soy yo Don Quixote El hombre de la Mancha To give you an idea where OSU was last year, they had a 5th year BB player as one of their middles. McCarthy ended up setting, by default. That's not where they wanted her. I believe their original setter, Whalen, ended up as their other OH. It was a mess.
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Post by itchies on Dec 1, 2004 18:40:10 GMT -5
/ignore
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Post by pineapple on Dec 1, 2004 19:29:40 GMT -5
BiK's reply is still a friendly volly, on the same level as yours. Nothing disparaging about it. If he had said something like " you a_ _hole, are you drunk??" that would be something else. I will come back later and give you an example of the kind of "opinions" I've reacted to. So check back later. Ok, I'm back. But rather than overkilling this subject matter, I elect, instead, to show what I said earlier about opinions. "I think the differences of opinion, the dessentions, the criticisms being made here are all healthy for this board. At least all are putting their feelings on the table for others to consider and respect- unlike last year towards the end of the season when things went ugly. So far my reading of the exchanges between Idaho Boy®® and GatorVball, for example, are put downs that can be easily cast aside should a get together take place, say in Waianae, Kalihi, Waimanalo or even Papakolea (This is an inside joke only people in Hawaii understand). Seriously, this board would be booorrringgg without people like Idaho Boy®® and GatorVball. I would bet that if a gathering took place for the purpose of having fun, it would be fun, regardless of which team won the championship. " But being a normal human being, I sometimes get peeved at people bashing the Wahine. So shut up, stupid! nah, nah, just joking.
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Post by Island on Dec 1, 2004 19:39:35 GMT -5
I get tired when Hawaii seems to be a flashpoint for just about everyone on this board.
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Post by Cubicle No More ... on Dec 1, 2004 21:07:51 GMT -5
Pac-10 fans pointed it out and I could see the argument but Kamana'o does do other thing well too. I haven't really heard any argument about Main's other attributes. I think they said she's a good passer. Every time people talk about Main, it goes straight to assists. That all I am trying to do, broaden the argument. I'm not discounting but where as someone like Labland or Thompson has a great anecdotal reason behind their assist totals, Main has the potential POY just as Kamana'o did. The argument can be used against both setters but Kamana'o's didn't reach the committee. We have to see for Main. I've posted on Main before - and I can say with near certainty that her game is not just feeding sets to a superstar. Granted, I haven't seen her play in the Big10 this year (I would have liked to - perhaps the Final Four?). But I did see her play a couple of times during her freshman, all-Atlantic 10, campaign with Xavier. And if she brings any of the kind of fire that she brought to an - at best, average - A10 team to OSU, then she fully deserves her Big10 honor. She is a solid, quick setter, has a great (near textbook) jumpserve, and a left-handed dump that most setters dream of having. Put all that together, and she is a really fun player to watch, and a great leader out on the court. OSU was lucky to get her - Her talents are better served there.
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