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Post by dokterrudi on Dec 24, 2018 0:28:18 GMT -5
I don’t mind the switching. Except during the deciding set. One team gets to pick serve/receive and the other team gets to pick side at the coin flip. If the sides are different make that a strategic decision. Don’t think of doubles in terms of top level teams. Think of the balance of the game played at a normal level. Barely watchable high school varsity. Taking away the double takes away much of the skill of the game. Take away doubles and so much will become back yard picnic volleyball. This!!! Not many things better the a Curry 3 pointer or a perfectly set ball. It's what separates us from the animals.
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Post by hookshott on Dec 24, 2018 0:49:22 GMT -5
Serves that nick the tape should be allowed. It’s dumb to have a “let serve” be replayed. It’s dumb to say a serve that grazes the net should be an error is dumb. We already have enough missed serves today. Spikes are allowed to hit the tape and trickle over. It takes 12+ seconds to reset and serve again. No one wants replays. Luck is a part of sports. And no, I don’t wanna hear about teams purposely trying to served tricklers off the tape. That’s idiotic. No decent coach does that. It’s a dumb strategy. You wanna serve low to the tape but not trying to get a trickle over ace on purpose. That’s insane. Agreed, nobody purposefully tries to hit the top of the net and have it dribble over. It is totally a fluke when that occurs....but the team that does it is rewarded with a point! IMO the serves that hit the net should have to land over the attack line so the receiving team actually has a chance to play the ball...which they do not when it dribbles across and falls right down from the net. I just do not understand why we reward failure...no player goes back to serve thinking they wish to hit the net. As I said, it is a total fluke...and they are rewarded. It is even more disgusting when this occurs on set or match point.
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Post by Scipio Aemilianus on Dec 24, 2018 3:14:45 GMT -5
Serves that nick the tape should be allowed. It’s dumb to have a “let serve” be replayed. It’s dumb to say a serve that grazes the net should be an error is dumb. We already have enough missed serves today. Spikes are allowed to hit the tape and trickle over. It takes 12+ seconds to reset and serve again. No one wants replays. Luck is a part of sports. And no, I don’t wanna hear about teams purposely trying to served tricklers off the tape. That’s idiotic. No decent coach does that. It’s a dumb strategy. You wanna serve low to the tape but not trying to get a trickle over ace on purpose. That’s insane. Agreed, nobody purposefully tries to hit the top of the net and have it dribble over. It is totally a fluke when that occurs....but the team that does it is rewarded with a point! IMO the serves that hit the net should have to land over the attack line so the receiving team actually has a chance to play the ball...which they do not when it dribbles across and falls right down from the net. I just do not understand why we reward failure...no player goes back to serve thinking they wish to hit the net. As I said, it is a total fluke...and they are rewarded. It is even more disgusting when this occurs on set or match point. Thanks for agreeing with me on the first part! The fluke serve dribbling over the net is not a failure. The goal is to serve the ball over the net and in the court. That’s what happens. A paintbrush kill is celebrated and counts . A dig off someone’s foot counts. Getting blocked back into your face then back over the net counts. Lots of accidental flukes count. That’s sports. If an attacker hits and whiffs but paintbrushes ball and lands in front of 10ft line for a kill, should it not count? When libero is covering and ball gets blocked off her head and up, should it not count and give point to other team? The rule is perfect as it is. No one says you can’t have your setter and middle ready to dig that serve that trickles over. Stop trying to make an imperfect sport perfect. The rule is just fine as it is.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 24, 2018 4:32:41 GMT -5
OF COURSE double-hits should be called. Why shouldn't they? We have already legislated too skill out of the game (doubles on first contact, net serve, libero means some people will NEVER play backrow, incidental net, etc...). Can we PLEASE keep some skill in the game? I really, really hate this argument. Because what you mean by "skill" is "conforming to an exact rule of style that has no actual benefit to the game but proves a player has studied and practiced a long time in order to achieve this style". What you are asking for is figure skating -- old-fashioned figure skating when the main judging was on how precisely the skater could skate the mandatory figures on the surface of the ice. Calling double contacts is the same thing. It's a judge (the ref) making a judgment call on whether the player demonstrated the accepted conventional style. It's really got nothing to do with the original purpose of the rule, which was just that you needed to pass the ball to someone else on your team instead of to yourself.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 24, 2018 4:34:03 GMT -5
I don't want refs calling double contact or BHE on balls set by the awkward MH. Even if there's hardly any spin, they still call it. Discrimination, I say. Absolutely true. Also happens to OHs too. Some refs are frigging EAGER to blow that whistle as soon as a non-setter makes an overhand pass.
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 24, 2018 4:44:30 GMT -5
OF COURSE double-hits should be called. Why shouldn't they? We have already legislated too skill out of the game (doubles on first contact, net serve, libero means some people will NEVER play backrow, incidental net, etc...). Can we PLEASE keep some skill in the game? I really, really hate this argument. Because what you mean by "skill" is "conforming to an exact rule of style that has no actual benefit to the game but proves a player has studied and practiced a long time in order to achieve this style". What you are asking for is figure skating -- old-fashioned figure skating when the main judging was on how precisely the skater could skate the mandatory figures on the surface of the ice. Calling double contacts is the same thing. It's a judge (the ref) making a judgment call on whether the player demonstrated the accepted conventional style. It's really got nothing to do with the original purpose of the rule, which was just that you needed to pass the ball to someone else on your team instead of to yourself. In the old Sonja Henie days, the skaters had to do a figure-8 as gracefully as possible.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 24, 2018 4:52:32 GMT -5
Not just figure 8s.
Sure this takes lots of skill to do. But why was it worth 60% of the score? By 1990, the ISU eliminated it entirely. So I suppose figure skating is no longer a sport for skilled athletes?
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 24, 2018 4:56:42 GMT -5
Not just figure 8s. Sure this takes lots of skill to do. But why was it worth 60% of the score? By 1990, the ISU eliminated it entirely. So I suppose figure skating is no longer a sport for skilled athletes? All that hair probably raised the center of gravity for most of those skaters, which is probably bad.
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Post by Wolfgang on Dec 24, 2018 4:58:20 GMT -5
Katarina Witt posed nude for Playboy. I missed it.
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Post by mikegarrison on Dec 24, 2018 5:09:58 GMT -5
Katarina Witt posed nude for Playboy. I missed it. You know, there's a way to find stuff like that.
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Post by eazy on Dec 24, 2018 15:00:52 GMT -5
Serves that nick the tape should be allowed. It’s dumb to have a “let serve” be replayed. It’s dumb to say a serve that grazes the net should be an error is dumb. We already have enough missed serves today. Spikes are allowed to hit the tape and trickle over. It takes 12+ seconds to reset and serve again. No one wants replays. Luck is a part of sports. And no, I don’t wanna hear about teams purposely trying to served tricklers off the tape. That’s idiotic. No decent coach does that. It’s a dumb strategy. You wanna serve low to the tape but not trying to get a trickle over ace on purpose. That’s insane. Agreed, nobody purposefully tries to hit the top of the net and have it dribble over. It is totally a fluke when that occurs....but the team that does it is rewarded with a point! IMO the serves that hit the net should have to land over the attack line so the receiving team actually has a chance to play the ball...which they do not when it dribbles across and falls right down from the net. I just do not understand why we reward failure...no player goes back to serve thinking they wish to hit the net. As I said, it is a total fluke...and they are rewarded. It is even more disgusting when this occurs on set or match point. In golf, if someone accidentally hits a rock and it bounces back onto the green do they make him reshoot? In basketball if someone tried an alley-oop and accidentally puts it in the basket to win the game do they not count it because it was a fluke and not fair to the other team?
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Post by azvb on Dec 24, 2018 15:17:48 GMT -5
Net serves were eliminated not because players lacked skill, but because officials lacked skill, a much more serious and pervasive problem in my opinion. Huh? That was an easy call. Hand was on the net, so refs could feel the ball skim the net. Not much skill involved.
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Post by pepperbrooks on Dec 24, 2018 15:55:04 GMT -5
Net serves were eliminated not because players lacked skill, but because officials lacked skill, a much more serious and pervasive problem in my opinion. Huh? That was an easy call. Hand was on the net, so refs could feel the ball skim the net. Not much skill involved. You'd be surprised...
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Post by oldmanvb on Dec 24, 2018 16:25:16 GMT -5
Net serves were eliminated not because players lacked skill, but because officials lacked skill, a much more serious and pervasive problem in my opinion. Huh? That was an easy call. Hand was on the net, so refs could feel the ball skim the net. Not much skill involved. You would think so. But still...
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Post by Scipio Aemilianus on Dec 24, 2018 18:10:22 GMT -5
OF COURSE double-hits should be called. Why shouldn't they? We have already legislated too skill out of the game (doubles on first contact, net serve, libero means some people will NEVER play backrow, incidental net, etc...). Can we PLEASE keep some skill in the game? I really, really hate this argument. Because what you mean by "skill" is "conforming to an exact rule of style that has no actual benefit to the game but proves a player has studied and practiced a long time in order to achieve this style". What you are asking for is figure skating -- old-fashioned figure skating when the main judging was on how precisely the skater could skate the mandatory figures on the surface of the ice. Calling double contacts is the same thing. It's a judge (the ref) making a judgment call on whether the player demonstrated the accepted conventional style. It's really got nothing to do with the original purpose of the rule, which was just that you needed to pass the ball to someone else on your team instead of to yourself. Why do you hate the fact that setting requires skill? Ever seen a non volleyball player or a 5 year old try to set. It looks a hell of a lot different. Because they aren’t as skilled or ‘proven they have studied and practiced a long time in order to achieve a legal set. I want players to learn how to set, no allowed what my drunk uncle does while playing keep-it-up on the beach with his 6 year old daughter. And ”I really really hate this argument” that calling doubles is same thing as figure skating or diving. Those judges give a score. Maybe a 7.4, maybe a 9.5, maybe an 8.2, maybe a 6.9. They aren’t playing against a defense. A volleyball set is black and white, legal or illegal. Setters don’t get 9.7s while middles get a 7.2 on their sets. It’s either allowed or it’s not. Lastly, is a lift/carry a judgement call?
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