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Post by yupyupyup on Dec 25, 2018 23:30:42 GMT -5
Sorry, not our court play (offensive/defensive) system, I’m talking about our developmental system lacking in preparing our junior athletes to senior level competition. Correct... bosko and zhu weren’t wasting their time playing low level ball in the ncaa when they were 17.. they were thrust into playing the best. The learning curve is massive. Players like Plummer, Carlini, Hodge could have gone directly pro if that were available to them and would likely have been better much quicker. ‘Wasting time’ ‘Getting a degree through a full ride scholarship’ whichever
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Post by Disc808 on Dec 25, 2018 23:35:05 GMT -5
I don't see why these players can't be in college AND making rosters/training with the team
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Post by vbshrink on Dec 25, 2018 23:35:57 GMT -5
Carlini had a pretty bad ankle sprain while training for the VNL this past spring. That was well-publicized, so let's not peddle any false narratives about Hancock vs. Carlini that simply don't exist. Carlini was able to heal up enough for the PAC, but she was still rather limited. Hancock got the back-up nod for the World Championships and helped Team USA to one of the worst performances at a major event in over a decade. You conveniently left out the fact that Carlini was selected for the WGCC instead of Hancock, and replaced Lloyd in several matches, starting even, because of Lloyd's consistently inconsistent play. You also seem to be implying that the head coach at the PAC was starting Carlini, but that Karch would've started Poulter... as if JGN wasn't playing exactly who Karch wanted him to play. C'mon. If anything is clear, it's that Karch feels as though he needs to let Lloyd lose the position herself vs. taking it from her. Agree with this, actually, except one thing: It's JNG, not JGN. It's the details, man. ;-)
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Post by Reach on Dec 25, 2018 23:36:33 GMT -5
Correct... bosko and zhu weren’t wasting their time playing low level ball in the ncaa when they were 17.. they were thrust into playing the best. The learning curve is massive. Players like Plummer, Carlini, Hodge could have gone directly pro if that were available to them and would likely have been better much quicker. ‘Wasting time’ ‘Getting a degree through a full ride scholarship’ whichever Yes waisting time applies to the .00001% of players of this rare quality.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Dec 25, 2018 23:49:04 GMT -5
Sorry, not our court play (offensive/defensive) system, I’m talking about our developmental system lacking in preparing our junior athletes to senior level competition. Correct... bosko and zhu weren’t wasting their time playing low level ball in the ncaa when they were 17.. they were thrust into playing the best. The learning curve is massive. Players like Plummer, Carlini, Hodge could have gone directly pro if that were available to them and would likely have been better much quicker. If blue chip recruits like Carlini, Hodson, Plummer, the Rolfzens, Washington, Lanier, Stone, Fitzmorris, Foecke, Haggerty, Frantti, etc. etc. etc. had gone pro instead of going the college route (or pull a Jaeschke) we would definitely have a much deeper roster.
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 25, 2018 23:54:18 GMT -5
I don't see why these players can't be in college AND making rosters/training with the team Most high level players in countries other than the USA aren't just showing up to their National teams when they turn 16 or 17. They've been associated with a professional or governmental development program from a very early age, sometimes as early as 8 or 9 years old. That's true for many other sports as well, particularly soccer (fútbol).
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Post by Pipe Attack on Dec 26, 2018 0:11:06 GMT -5
That’s not how our country operates though. Most prep players are playing for that college scholarship. With that said, under Toshi Yoshida, I think the US tried what you guys are suggesting. Unfortunately, I believe the only player that went that route was Tracie Stalls. But look, she ended up going to Nebraska afterwards - and didn’t even make any national teams - maybe injury, burnout?
I do agree we need to develop the talent for intl purposes ... but then again, are college coaches willing to risk injury? Look at someone like Nwanebu?
Under Kiraly moreso than others recent national team coaches, you do wonder about the up and comers .. as he seems to rely heavily on veterans.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2018 0:20:23 GMT -5
Is our system actually that complex? I don't think it is. Sorry, not our court play (offensive/defensive) system, I’m talking about our developmental system lacking in preparing our junior athletes to senior level competition. The reason players from all other countries are able to play at such a high level at a early age is very simple...When they turn 18 they either sign with a pro club...or mostly likely they have to quit volleyball...they don`t have the luxury to go to a college and develop for 4 years....so their urge to become great and find a club must start while they are with junior teams. I read a interview with Boskovic...I can`t remember exactly what she said but she said something like joining the NT and one of the biggest clubs in the World ( ECZ Vitra) was not that difficult, because she basically was already doing the same thing since she was 13. And elsewhere all these girls...and I`m talking girls ages 12-14 must leave their home and go to a city where there`s a volleyball club to start training if they want to pursue their dream, and they must know very early on that volleyball is what they want to do for life.....high schools does not offer sports in mostly countries. And even in countries like Brazil and China there`s very very few clubs..... And for all these girls and BOYS mostly of the time they can only do if of course one of the parents can leave everything behind and move away with them....Haak is a example, her mother had to move to France and Italy with her. For Americans is so so easy... hundreds of high schools and hundreds of college...
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Post by Hawk Attack on Dec 26, 2018 0:29:04 GMT -5
That’s not how our country operates though. Most prep players are playing for that college scholarship. With that said, under Toshi Yoshida, I think the US tried what you guys are suggesting. Unfortunately, I believe the only player that went that route was Tracie Stalls. But look, she ended up going to Nebraska afterwards - and didn’t even make any national teams - maybe injury, burnout? I do agree we need to develop the talent for intl purposes ... but then again, are college coaches willing to risk injury? Look at someone like Nwanebu? Under Kiraly moreso than others recent national team coaches, you do wonder about the up and comers .. as he seems to rely heavily on veterans. The answer really isn’t to try and start them earlier anyway, our club kids are not prepared for international play. USAV should be doing everything they can to push/promote/beg for a USA pro circuit but they just do not have the manpower or desire to do so. They need to keep their focus on their cash cow, their (essentially useless) HP program.
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Post by memorybankrupt on Dec 26, 2018 0:39:40 GMT -5
Hentz ehhh... Plummer YES Hentz is worth a shot... USA seems to lose a lot of points on tips. I haven’t seen anyone better at getting those up that we have so.., Hentz might be another Hagglund. Not sure if she'll be able to pass at a higher level. Maybe at the least she could split the position and be in on defense.
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Post by ironhammer on Dec 26, 2018 0:42:25 GMT -5
Speaking of the setters, I was very disappointed by Lloyd's performance at the WCH. This season she was playing in Brazil, she still doesn't play as well as she did in Italy a couple of seasons ago. I don't know what is going on with her. Maybe it's time for Karch to reconsider the starting setter now. Well I am sure the Carlini fans will be happy to if Lloyd gets replaced, which opens up the spot for her. Then the question would be who will be the starting setter, Carlini or Hancock?
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Post by ironhammer on Dec 26, 2018 0:45:46 GMT -5
Sorry, not our court play (offensive/defensive) system, I’m talking about our developmental system lacking in preparing our junior athletes to senior level competition. Correct... bosko and zhu weren’t wasting their time playing low level ball in the ncaa when they were 17.. they were thrust into playing the best. The learning curve is massive. Players like Plummer, Carlini, Hodge could have gone directly pro if that were available to them and would likely have been better much quicker. It's not always a simple binary choice between college education or turning pro. Since you are referring to Zhu, it's interesting to note that the Chinese NT have players who have university degrees while still playing pro. Their former captain, Hui Ruoqi, has a bachelor, master and is studying for a PhD. Zhang Changning is also doing postgraduate studies. Wang Mengjie, their libero, is also studying for a degree. So it's not always a black and white distinction.
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 26, 2018 0:48:34 GMT -5
That’s not how our country operates though. Most prep players are playing for that college scholarship. With that said, under Toshi Yoshida, I think the US tried what you guys are suggesting. Unfortunately, I believe the only player that went that route was Tracie Stalls. But look, she ended up going to Nebraska afterwards - and didn’t even make any national teams - maybe injury, burnout? I do agree we need to develop the talent for intl purposes ... but then again, are college coaches willing to risk injury? Look at someone like Nwanebu? Under Kiraly moreso than others recent national team coaches, you do wonder about the up and comers .. as he seems to rely heavily on veterans. The answer really isn’t to try and start them earlier anyway, our club kids are not prepared for international play. USAV should be doing everything they can to push/promote/beg for a USA pro circuit but they just do not have the manpower or desire to do so. They need to keep their focus on their cash cow, their (essentially useless) HP program. I think a US pro league is probably not the answer because it is unlikely to be economically feasible any time soon. I think an enhanced elite junior development program under the umbrella of USA Volleyball (in order to be congruent with NCAA rules) is the way to go. Currently, our HP programs are insufficient to promote significant development, but some type of regional grouping of talent in a longer-term academy setting (or a tiered junior club competition level) would be much more useful. That requires some investment by USAV ( or sponsorship/fund-raising) and might be too ambitious, but it seems like a much better alternative to the existing disjointed system we have.
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Post by Hawk Attack on Dec 26, 2018 0:50:14 GMT -5
The answer really isn’t to try and start them earlier anyway, our club kids are not prepared for international play. USAV should be doing everything they can to push/promote/beg for a USA pro circuit but they just do not have the manpower or desire to do so. They need to keep their focus on their cash cow, their (essentially useless) HP program. I think a US pro league is probably not the answer because it is unlikely to be economically feasible any time soon. I think an enhanced elite junior development program under the umbrella of USA Volleyball (in order to be congruent with NCAA rules) is the way to go. Currently, our HP programs are insufficient to promote significant development, but some type of regional grouping of talent in a longer-term academy setting (or a tiered junior club competition level) would be much more useful. That requires some investment by USAV ( or sponsorship/fund-raising) and might be too ambitious, but it seems like a much better alternative to the existing disjointed system we have. That does sound ideal, but I just don’t see any chance of that happening. I guess the problem really is all the solutions are not feasible or satisfying.
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Post by volleyguy on Dec 26, 2018 0:57:38 GMT -5
I think a US pro league is probably not the answer because it is unlikely to be economically feasible any time soon. I think an enhanced elite junior development program under the umbrella of USA Volleyball (in order to be congruent with NCAA rules) is the way to go. Currently, our HP programs are insufficient to promote significant development, but some type of regional grouping of talent in a longer-term academy setting (or a tiered junior club competition level) would be much more useful. That requires some investment by USAV ( or sponsorship/fund-raising) and might be too ambitious, but it seems like a much better alternative to the existing disjointed system we have. That does sound ideal, but I just don’t see any chance of that happening. I guess the problem really is all the solutions are not feasible or satisfying. There are a few club programs that are almost in a position to do something likes this already, at least regionally. I think USAV could do it more easily or efficiently if they ever got their stuff in order.
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