Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 22, 2019 20:24:11 GMT -5
COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately? Do we think the three stories that were in the paper were the most damning or the most tame of the complaints? I would guess they would choose to share what they viewed as the most serious. None of those were fireable offenses, so the university didn't fire him. They DID go through a mediation process to try to better the situation and the players seemed to believe that anything less than a firing wasn't good enough so they took an internal issue and went public. Their story didn't come close to winning me over. That's the risk you run when you go public. That’s a risk? Not winning you over?
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Post by n00b on Apr 22, 2019 20:31:59 GMT -5
Do we think the three stories that were in the paper were the most damning or the most tame of the complaints? I would guess they would choose to share what they viewed as the most serious. None of those were fireable offenses, so the university didn't fire him. They DID go through a mediation process to try to better the situation and the players seemed to believe that anything less than a firing wasn't good enough so they took an internal issue and went public. Their story didn't come close to winning me over. That's the risk you run when you go public. That’s a risk? Not winning you over? It shouldn’t be. But there’s at least one poster in this thread who seems offended and outraged by people who aren’t on the side of the accusers. And this brings up a good point. Is it a good thing that there is no downside to launching a public smear campaign against a coach you dislike?
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 22, 2019 20:41:18 GMT -5
That’s a risk? Not winning you over? And this brings up a good point. Is it a good thing that there is no downside to launching a public smear campaign against a coach you dislike? Exactly. Accusations like this gets thrown around too easily. When it turns out to be false, there are no consequences for the false accusers. Now the vexing question is, should there be some consequences? Some will say no, as consequences may deter victims of genuine cases of abuse from coming forward for fear of being labelled liars. But on the other hand, what about the harm and suffering of the wrongly accused who has to bear the false accusations? Getting fired. Being shunned by everyone. Not likely able to find a job in the same occupation. Not to mention possible legal liability.
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Post by silversurfer on Apr 22, 2019 21:39:34 GMT -5
My point was that the players did go thru the appropriate channels and received nothing back from the administration but silence.
Either way there was supposed to be some kind of response, whether it was in the players’ favor or not.
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Post by bigjohn043 on Apr 22, 2019 21:42:47 GMT -5
You know what i hate? Every time something like this pops up, we assume it's because the kids are "mentally weak" or entitled. That is such a load of crap. I work with students and athletes daily. And something I have found about this generation of kids: they are far less likely to put up with mistreatment, degradation, hypocrisy, and abuse simply because that "is the way things have always been done". We have seen an absolute mass of mistreatment uncovered in relation to coaches/administrations/staff and athletes and, even in the world at large. It's the newer generations that have stepped up, pointed it out, and said no more. And yet, we STILL assume they are the weak and entitled ones. I am not assuming that they are weak and entitled. I have never met any of the players so how would I make that judgement. I do know that the three instances mentioned are a total and complete joke. To characterize them as abuse is just crazy. And how about we have a little bit of concern for the coach whose life they tried to ruin. I am not saying this guy is a good coach. I have no idea. Players quitting and lots of losing aren't a good sign. But that is a whole different thing that accusing someone of abuse. You better have some real facts to back that up and at least the facts mentioned are a total joke.
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Post by silversurfer on Apr 22, 2019 22:11:17 GMT -5
You know what i hate? Every time something like this pops up, we assume it's because the kids are "mentally weak" or entitled. That is such a load of crap. I work with students and athletes daily. And something I have found about this generation of kids: they are far less likely to put up with mistreatment, degradation, hypocrisy, and abuse simply because that "is the way things have always been done". We have seen an absolute mass of mistreatment uncovered in relation to coaches/administrations/staff and athletes and, even in the world at large. It's the newer generations that have stepped up, pointed it out, and said no more. And yet, we STILL assume they are the weak and entitled ones. I am not assuming that they are weak and entitled. I have never met any of the players so how would I make that judgement. I do know that the three instances mentioned are a total and complete joke. To characterize them as abuse is just crazy. And how about we have a little bit of concern for the coach whose life they tried to ruin. I am not saying this guy is a good coach. I have no idea. Players quitting and lots of losing aren't a good sign. But that is a whole different thing that accusing someone of abuse. You better have some real facts to back that up and at least the facts mentioned are a total joke. You’re not assuming the players are weak and entitled, but you are assuming they tried to ruin his life?
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 22, 2019 22:46:14 GMT -5
I am not assuming that they are weak and entitled. I have never met any of the players so how would I make that judgement. I do know that the three instances mentioned are a total and complete joke. To characterize them as abuse is just crazy. And how about we have a little bit of concern for the coach whose life they tried to ruin. I am not saying this guy is a good coach. I have no idea. Players quitting and lots of losing aren't a good sign. But that is a whole different thing that accusing someone of abuse. You better have some real facts to back that up and at least the facts mentioned are a total joke. You’re not assuming the players are weak and entitled, but you are assuming they tried to ruin his life? They could be manipulative. Doesn't mean they are weak. Just amoral and immature.
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Post by ironhammer on Apr 22, 2019 22:47:43 GMT -5
My point was that the players did go thru the appropriate channels and received nothing back from the administration but silence.
Either way there was supposed to be some kind of response, whether it was in the players’ favor or not. Perhaps the administration is still in the process of investigation and has not come to a conclusion? Seems like the students here are trying to rush the process and pronounce judgement before allowing due process to run its' course.
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Post by jcvball22 on Apr 22, 2019 22:51:20 GMT -5
That’s a risk? Not winning you over? It shouldn’t be. But there’s at least one poster in this thread who seems offended and outraged by people who aren’t on the side of the accusers. And this brings up a good point. Is it a good thing that there is no downside to launching a public smear campaign against a coach you dislike? I'm in no capacity offended that people aren't siding with the athletes. But I take massive offense that the conclusion of so many is that the kids are simply entitled brats. Not even specific to this case, but it seems to be a theme from quite a few of the posters any time athletes point out issues within a program.
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Post by guest2 on Apr 22, 2019 23:02:28 GMT -5
My point was that the players did go thru the appropriate channels and received nothing back from the administration but silence. Either way there was supposed to be some kind of response, whether it was in the players’ favor or not. This isnt true. Members of the admin met with some of them at different times and monitored practices. What they didn't receive from the admin was what they demanded but thats not the same as saying they received silence.
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snatr
Sophomore
Posts: 212
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Post by snatr on Apr 22, 2019 23:06:20 GMT -5
I'm just waiting for Chuck to get on here with a defense of being 800 miles away from Philly during all of this.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 23, 2019 8:02:13 GMT -5
Them being immature, irresponsible, and possibly entitled has everything to do with them learning, not knowing how to appropriately handle an adult situation, or how to responsibly approach the situation with higher ups that are put in place at that school for this exact reason. We are not talking sexual assault or physical abuse, perhaps verbal harassment which we have all alluded to him being wrong, but I see information lacking lots of context that is provided from one side. Being polite and respectful of the way your new coach wants to do something is how you act with maturity and if you have a problem privately meet with him and discuss the issues, going to a sophomore and senior journalists that are foaming at the mouth in a time where shock journalism gets clicks that could advance their careers by this getting traction is immature. Like I keep saying I want to hear more to the story, I want to hear from the group of girls on that team that does not hang with the group who filed reports, what kind of coach is he other than his harsh personality that admittedly he could probably work on, did these girls call a team meeting and get everyone on the same page or request a meeting with their coach and a mediator from the school or assistant athletic director to have an adult conversation out in the open? Based on the information provided there seems to be lots of steps missing in how they handled it in an incredibly poor way, you can call me cynical but it is my opinion of dealing with kids of all ages on a daily basis for almost two decades that this song and dance situation is literally nothing new. Are you not a cynic for believing only the kids, or have you spoken to every girl on the roster, assistant coaches, and seen how many complaints - over whatever the period of time is - to make your opinion? The kids are welcome to have their concerns as it is their right, but based off the information we have this all seems like an in house issue that should have never been publicized because some immature children didn't like how a situation was playing out that was not working in their favor as they prob had been lead to believe by their parents and each other. COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately? COME ON. Have you never been around a group of girls that are entrenched in drama and want immediate satisfaction? They all join together where there is strength in numbers, like I keep saying let me hear the opinions and thoughts of the girls who don't hang with this clique or do not care for the group of girls that made reports and then went to the newspaper where STUDENT journalists couldn't have been more excited to write a piece like this. And you are right maybe they did talk to the coach privately, but based off how they went to the newspaper with these incredibly weak/exaggerated instances of abuse I would guess they were not very respectful or appropriate in how they potentially handled that conversation if they did.
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Post by moderndaycoach on Apr 23, 2019 8:04:19 GMT -5
My point was that the players did go thru the appropriate channels and received nothing back from the administration but silence. Either way there was supposed to be some kind of response, whether it was in the players’ favor or not. Was it silence, or was it relayed to them that there was no immediate cause for termination and were told they would keep an eye on it? Edit: Just saw Guest2 post. Agreed
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Post by pepperbrooks on Apr 23, 2019 8:35:52 GMT -5
COME ON. Did you miss the part where they filed 8 different formal complaints according to department guidelines? And how do you know they didn’t talk to the coach privately? COME ON. Have you never been around a group of girls that are entrenched in drama and want immediate satisfaction? They all join together where there is strength in numbers, like I keep saying let me hear the opinions and thoughts of the girls who don't hang with this clique or do not care for the group of girls that made reports and then went to the newspaper where STUDENT journalists couldn't have been more excited to write a piece like this. And you are right maybe they did talk to the coach privately, but based off how they went to the newspaper with these incredibly weak/exaggerated instances of abuse I would guess they were not very respectful or appropriate in how they potentially handled that conversation if they did. Do we know they went to the newspaper, or did the newspaper find out about this for themselves?
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Post by Winbabywin on Apr 23, 2019 9:20:11 GMT -5
Sounds eerily similar to the goings on that happened at Ohio Dominican back in the fall. Except there was a story on the local TV news channel, not just a paper article. Allegations of abuse and several players even boycotting/sitting out in protest. After quite a few weeks of attention here on VT, and with backing from Admin, the story has seemingly just gone away, and the coach is still with the program, with absolutely no consequences moving forward (that I know of). Not making a determination whether either case is justified or not...just saying, life nowadays moves fast, and I imagine if the higher-ups wanted him gone, he would be gone by now. If he/they can survive the immediate whirlwind, this will be all but forgotten in a month.
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