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Post by jma1968 on Jul 23, 2019 14:17:27 GMT -5
I've always been a left-right proponent of setter footwork. Even when no steps are required, I taught to go ahead and "left-right" anyway. Chief benefits here include consistent weight transfer, consistent tempo of the setter contact itself, and ensuring the right foot and midline are centered with the direction of the intended set. Seems easy, it's easy to teach, usually works.
Recently attended a college camp whose coach made the point that there often isn't the time to transition to the "setting spot" and still go through the usual 2-step cadence of pre-set footwork. I then watched as she worked through a progression that culminated in what she called an "air pivot". I'll try to describe:
1. Setter begins at the net, body 45 degrees into the court, athletic position
2. Setter pursues the pass (or not, if it's right to her)
3. Setter makes that last "left-right" while in the air on a short hop
4. Setter lands with right foot in front, already pivoted and pointed in the intended direction of the ball, and in a loaded body position
(At this point, the setter is in the same position she would be if she had done the usual left-right routine, difference being it took her fewer steps and time to get there)
5. Setter unloads as she contacts the ball, transfers weight forward, then follows the ball to cover the hitter (coach said this was something we need to incorporate in all setting drills)
In fact, the coach claimed that every high-level setter already air-pivots in the transition from base/read to the net, sprinting to the net and coming to a jump-stop (including an air-pivot to her left) to read the pass. She likened the footwork... progressing from base to setting position to pursuing the pass and completing the play... to something similar to what a slalom skier does, tossing their lower legs from side to side while minimizing upper body movement.
I'm intrigued. Is this new thinking? Or possibly very old? I've just never seen this taught before.
Also, I'm not asking to defend whether this is an improvement over what I've taught in the past, although if anyone wants to take up that case, be my guest.
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Post by cardinalvolleyball on Jul 23, 2019 14:22:31 GMT -5
gm2 would be shaking their fist at you.
This is not a new way to teach setting. Most setting coaching either teach this or something very similar and that usually starts when they start to learn to jump set
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Post by jma1968 on Jul 23, 2019 15:23:02 GMT -5
I hope gm2 makes it to this thread and berates me. Could be instructive.
the jump set was also discussed, but the drill progression didn't make it that far. Long story short, her message was that the second air-pivot made for a more balanced position from which to jump on the jump set, especially off the net.
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Post by Fight On! on Jul 23, 2019 17:46:32 GMT -5
Was this in Minneapolis?
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Post by justahick on Jul 23, 2019 18:42:39 GMT -5
I've always been a left-right proponent of setter footwork. Even when no steps are required, I taught to go ahead and "left-right" anyway. Chief benefits here include consistent weight transfer, consistent tempo of the setter contact itself, and ensuring the right foot and midline are centered with the direction of the intended set. Seems easy, it's easy to teach, usually works. Recently attended a college camp whose coach made the point that there often isn't the time to transition to the "setting spot" and still go through the usual 2-step cadence of pre-set footwork. I then watched as she worked through a progression that culminated in what she called an "air pivot". I'll try to describe: 1. Setter begins at the net, body 45 degrees into the court, athletic position 2. Setter pursues the pass (or not, if it's right to her) 3. Setter makes that last "left-right" while in the air on a short hop 4. Setter lands with right foot in front, already pivoted and pointed in the intended direction of the ball, and in a loaded body position (At this point, the setter is in the same position she would be if she had done the usual left-right routine, difference being it took her fewer steps and time to get there) 5. Setter unloads as she contacts the ball, transfers weight forward, then follows the ball to cover the hitter (coach said this was something we need to incorporate in all setting drills) In fact, the coach claimed that every high-level setter already air-pivots in the transition from base/read to the net, sprinting to the net and coming to a jump-stop (including an air-pivot to her left) to read the pass. She likened the footwork... progressing from base to setting position to pursuing the pass and completing the play... to something similar to what a slalom skier does, tossing their lower legs from side to side while minimizing upper body movement. I'm intrigued. Is this new thinking? Or possibly very old? I've just never seen this taught before. Also, I'm not asking to defend whether this is an improvement over what I've taught in the past, although if anyone wants to take up that case, be my guest. What are the last two steps before the "air L-R"? |
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Post by jma1968 on Jul 23, 2019 22:11:17 GMT -5
Not Minneapolis, Chicago. Why? Did you hear / see something similar there?
Steps before "air L-R"... good question, I had to think about it. If no motion is required... none, just a little hop in place and pivot (left to right, maybe 15, 20 degrees or so) while in the air, landing aligned with target. If movement is required (to move off the net to the 3M line, for example), the little hop comes off the left foot, then a bigger pivot while in the air, more like 45 degrees to align with target (assuming target is left pin, perhaps even more than that if feeding a middle).
gm2 isn't a person, is it? Is that shorthand for the Gold Medal Squared crowd? Would they not like this?
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Post by n00b on Jul 23, 2019 22:18:15 GMT -5
gm2 isn't a person, is it? Is that shorthand for the Gold Medal Squared crowd? Would they not like this? Gold Medal Squared devotees have a very specific way of doing things and are eager to tell people who think differently that they are wrong. |
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Post by 642fiddi on Jul 24, 2019 9:54:38 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that coaches train setters to run to the net and await the perfect pass. I have always considered this wishful thinking, It makes more sense to me to get to the 3 meter line, gather yourself and gauge where the pass is going. This allows the setter to set the perfect pass while giving them a 10 foot head start on getting to bad, oops, out of system passes.
Let the GM2 flaming begin.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2019 11:08:07 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that coaches train setters to run to the net and await the perfect pass. I have always considered this wishful thinking, It makes more sense to me to get to the 3 meter line, gather yourself and gauge where the pass is going. This allows the setter to set the perfect pass while giving them a 10 foot head start on getting to bad, oops, out of system passes. Let the GM2 flaming begin. You want them to have to get stopped ("gather yourself") twice? Once at the 3m line and again at the point of contact? That's bad. Being at the net as soon as possible allows you to only have to work in one direction: off the net. Being at the 3m line means that you might have to make a dynamic move toward the net to play the ball, and the net = pressure because you can't touch it or step under it. There are other reasons, but that's one. |
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Post by ineedajob on Jul 24, 2019 11:24:56 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that coaches train setters to run to the net and await the perfect pass. I have always considered this wishful thinking, It makes more sense to me to get to the 3 meter line, gather yourself and gauge where the pass is going. This allows the setter to set the perfect pass while giving them a 10 foot head start on getting to bad, oops, out of system passes. Let the GM2 flaming begin. I disagree with this. I think the most efficient place to run a perfect offense is with the setter a foot or two off the net. 3 meters (or 10 feet) is too far away for some setters to get to a perfect or tight pass with enough time to deliver a ball for the best offense. It's also unlikely that any other player will be able to make a play on a tighter pass, whereas there are several other players that might make a play on a pass that is beyond 15 feet off the net. It also depends on the setter and the type of ball being hit at my passers, but maybe in serve receive, I want the setter about 3-5 feet from the net so that the "perfect pass" can be played with the setter having a chance to get to the spot and make a jump-set without having the setter float into/under the net. If we're passing a free ball, I want my back row setter to be right at the net. Being 3 meters from the net would prevent the passers from being able to pass a tempo ball, if that's something they've been trained to do in free ball situations. I might want my front row setter a couple feet off the net in case they are able to take an approach and attack the ball. Last, I think standing at the 3-meter line makes it really tough on a setter to set a ball that is passed closer to the net and behind them (nearer where the RS will attack). I think that play can be made easier by a setter if their initial position is closer to the net. Edited to add: Is your offense THAT much more efficient with your setter setting out-of-system passes than with somebody else doing it? |
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Post by wonderwarthog79 on Jul 24, 2019 15:27:50 GMT -5
If I had stopped at the 3-meter line on my way to the net, coach would have still had me taking laps today.
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Post by 642fiddi on Jul 24, 2019 15:51:30 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that coaches train setters to run to the net and await the perfect pass. I have always considered this wishful thinking, It makes more sense to me to get to the 3 meter line, gather yourself and gauge where the pass is going. This allows the setter to set the perfect pass while giving them a 10 foot head start on getting to bad, oops, out of system passes. Let the GM2 flaming begin. I don't see stopped written here anywhere. |
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Post by 642fiddi on Jul 24, 2019 15:53:08 GMT -5
If I had stopped at the 3-meter line on my way to the net, coach would have still had me taking laps today. Laps , really? That says a lot about your coach and his ability to convey a message. |
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Post by 642fiddi on Jul 24, 2019 16:10:26 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that coaches train setters to run to the net and await the perfect pass. I have always considered this wishful thinking, It makes more sense to me to get to the 3 meter line, gather yourself and gauge where the pass is going. This allows the setter to set the perfect pass while giving them a 10 foot head start on getting to bad, oops, out of system passes. Let the GM2 flaming begin. I disagree with this. I think the most efficient place to run a perfect offense is with the setter a foot or two off the net. 3 meters (or 10 feet) is too far away for some setters to get to a perfect or tight pass with enough time to deliver a ball for the best offense. It's also unlikely that any other player will be able to make a play on a tighter pass, whereas there are several other players that might make a play on a pass that is beyond 15 feet off the net. It also depends on the setter and the type of ball being hit at my passers, but maybe in serve receive, I want the setter about 3-5 feet from the net so that the "perfect pass" can be played with the setter having a chance to get to the spot and make a jump-set without having the setter float into/under the net. If we're passing a free ball, I want my back row setter to be right at the net. Being 3 meters from the net would prevent the passers from being able to pass a tempo ball, if that's something they've been trained to do in free ball situations. I might want my front row setter a couple feet off the net in case they are able to take an approach and attack the ball. Last, I think standing at the 3-meter line makes it really tough on a setter to set a ball that is passed closer to the net and behind them (nearer where the RS will attack). I think that play can be made easier by a setter if their initial position is closer to the net. Edited to add: Is your offense THAT much more efficient with your setter setting out-of-system passes than with somebody else doing it? How often are teams running the "perfect offense"? which I assume means getting a perfect pass in serve receive. I don't see "standing" written anywhere in my description. Floating into the net is a result of flawed footwork. A "tempo" ball should be intercepted at elevation before it reaches the net. Most teams don't want "several other players" making the second contact. And yes,the offense is that much more efficient with the setter setting what might be out of system passes if they are running from the net as opposed to getting a few feet head start and increasing the number of "in system sets'. Its why you have setters. |
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Post by hammer on Jul 24, 2019 16:11:43 GMT -5
I find it more interesting that coaches train setters to run to the net and await the perfect pass. I have always considered this wishful thinking, It makes more sense to me to get to the 3 meter line, gather yourself and gauge where the pass is going. This allows the setter to set the perfect pass while giving them a 10 foot head start on getting to bad, oops, out of system passes. Let the GM2 flaming begin. , Are you Jerritt Elliott? |
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