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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 21:29:22 GMT -5
[quote author=(R)uffda! link=board=general&thread=1102830256&start=89#5 date=1102990731]
I've actually seen Kehoe as often as Main. Kehoe has played better in the matches I've seen. But I've heard _very_ good things about Main (and obviously LOTS of good things about Kehoe.
Well, so far, we _do_ agree on the setter. Let me know what you think about the other positions. I'm curious to hear it.
Unless you mean my opinion about Gordon v. Nnamani...[/quote]
If you were serious about a position-by-position match-up, maybe no further response is needed: If no one else at OSU is competent to dig, then duh SG is the only person back there who will get digs. If Stanford has a number of competent people, why dilute Ogonna's strengths? If Paula Gentil played for OSU, what would Stacy's numbers be like and how do you think the team chemistry would be? What makes you think, and the crux of your entire crusade seems to rest on this, that OSU would win 60% of the time? I think in a best of 10 contest, Stanford would win the first six in a row. End of contest. SG may well be the second coming if she becomes a beach vb player (2 person), but most well recruited and well coached teams are not looking for this type of a jack-of-all-trades player to be their go-to hitter and primary passer as well. They have team plays. If Gordon had been injured, OSU would have been without much of an offensive and defensive presence.
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Post by Gorf on Dec 13, 2004 21:34:41 GMT -5
Gorf, honestly: Do you believe any of the voting members has seen or has been ever curious to see any stats comparison? I take it you didn't read the entire thread? Publius (perhaps facetiously) asked for a stat table of the two.
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Post by silversurfer on Dec 13, 2004 21:42:21 GMT -5
OK, I was wrong about FF MVP. Laura Davis was actually POY.
Main v. Kehoe: Both amazing competitors. Kehoe is better on top of the net on blocking, but Main takes a huge cut at the ball in the front row. I've seen Main fake out the best of blockers. But Kehoe plays better defense.
Both make their teams better. I'd take either.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 21:44:41 GMT -5
Publius (perhaps facetiously) asked for a stat table of the two. (not for the stat table you produced, though)
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Post by Gorf on Dec 13, 2004 21:45:34 GMT -5
If you were serious about a position-by-position match-up, maybe no further response is needed: If no one else at OSU is competent to dig, then duh SG is the only person back there who will get digs. If Stanford has a number of competent people, why dilute Ogonna's strengths? If Paula Gentil played for OSU, what would Stacy's numbers be like and how do you think the team chemistry would be? What makes you think, and the crux of your entire crusade seems to rest on this, that OSU would win 60% of the time? I think in a best of 10 contest, Stanford would win the first six in a row. End of contest. SG may well be the second coming if she becomes a beach vb player (2 person), but most well recruited and well coached teams are not looking for this type of a jack-of-all-trades player to be their go-to hitter and primary passer as well. They have team plays. If Gordon had been injured, OSU would have been without much of an offensive and defensive presence. Now you're making me laugh. I take it you're saying that Stanford isn't a well recruited team? They've had Logan and other extremely well rounded players throughout the past few decades. They certainly didn't refuse to recruit Logan, and they didn't refuse to use her as a defensive standout, they didn't refuse to use her as a primary passer on serve receive, and they most definitely didn't refuse to use her as their go to player on offense. Ever heard of Karch Kiraly? Would you like to make a bet on whether you could find a single head coahc in the country that would refuse to recruit a Stacey Gordon type of extremely well rounded and versatile player for their team? I don't think you're doing so, however, you're really coming off as someone that refuses to accept even the remote possibility that a player anywhere in the country could be better than Stanford's best player. As for Stacey being injured having an impact on OSU - If Ogonna were injured Stanford would probably have lost in the 1st round this year, and certainly in the 2nd round against Florida. If they even made the tournament at all.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 21:48:38 GMT -5
If you were serious about a position-by-position match-up, maybe no further response is needed: If no one else at OSU is competent to dig, then duh SG is the only person back there who will get digs. If Stanford has a number of competent people, why dilute Ogonna's strengths? If Paula Gentil played for OSU, what would Stacy's numbers be like and how do you think the team chemistry would be? What makes you think, and the crux of your entire crusade seems to rest on this, that OSU would win 60% of the time? I think in a best of 10 contest, Stanford would win the first six in a row. End of contest. SG may well be the second coming if she becomes a beach vb player (2 person), but most well recruited and well coached teams are not looking for this type of a jack-of-all-trades player to be their go-to hitter and primary passer as well. They have team plays. If Gordon had been injured, OSU would have been without much of an offensive and defensive presence. I don't think you catch my drift at all. 1) The point of the post under discussion had to do with the 2nd way of looking at the POY (as opposed to just who was the better player). That is: which player had a greater impact on her team. I think that was Gordon. 2) You fail to give Gordon credit for making her teammates better. I am NOT saying she is playing with stiffs. I am saying Ogonna has a _better_ supporting cast. 3) The fact that you think Stanford would win 6 matches in a row against OSU, in MY opinion, renders the balance of your opinion "unworthy of you." That is EXACTLY the kind of Pac10 hype I have to object to, and will, no matter how many people I tick off. It's RIDICULOUS. 4) I guarantee you that pro indoor teams would select Gordon over Nnamani if they had the choice. I have no doubt that this is true. They'd love to have both, but they'd much rather have the complete player. 5) What makes me think they would win 6 of 10? I think they are the better team. But this is the weakest part of my statement and the one that is MOST subjective. But I do know they would not lose 6 straight...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 21:53:44 GMT -5
Now you're making me laugh. I take it you're saying that Stanford isn't a well recruited team? They've had Logan and other extremely well rounded players throughout the past few decades. They certainly didn't refuse to recruit Logan, and they didn't refuse to use her as a defensive standout, they didn't refuse to use her as a primary passer on serve receive, and they most definitely didn't refuse to use her as their go to player on offense. Ever heard of Karch Kiraly? Would you like to make a bet on whether you could find a single head coahc in the country that would refuse to recruit a Stacey Gordon type of extremely well rounded and versatile player for their team? I don't think you're doing so, however, you're really coming off as someone that refuses to accept even the remote possibility that a player anywhere in the country could be better than Stanford's best player. As for Stacey being injured having an impact on OSU - If Ogonna were injured Stanford would probably have lost in the 1st round this year, and certainly in the 2nd round against Florida. If they even made the tournament at all. Well, Gorf, I am happy you are capable of laughing, even if you think I am making you do so. I know you ignored the thrust of my comment, but your response to the part of it that you highlighted missed the point. This was what you highlighted and presumably responded to: "most well recruited and well coached teams are not looking for this type of a jack-of-all-trades player to be their go-to hitter and primary passer as well" If you disagree with this as a principle, then no need for further discussion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 22:23:17 GMT -5
Just trying to unlock the thread.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 13, 2004 22:36:11 GMT -5
I'm not totally clear on what you mean here. They aren't looking for this type of player? This type of player is almost impossible to find, but when she is--e.g., Jordan Larson, Cynthia Barboza--the stampede would knock you over.
But maybe I misunderstand you...
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Post by Gorf on Dec 13, 2004 22:42:02 GMT -5
Isn't that type of player as an OH pretty much exactly what a traditional 2 person passing system is predicated on?
Do you honestly think that John Dunning wouldn't use Stacey Gordon as a primary passer for Stanford if he had her on the team?
There isn't a coach in the country that wouldn't have been ecstatic to have Stacey on their team for the past four years as their primary passer AND go to offensive player.
Internationally that is EXACTLY the type of player that is preferred because they don't need to be hidden on serve receive and they don't become a liability in the back row like the numerous front row only, offense only players that are available.
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Post by BearClause on Dec 13, 2004 23:12:31 GMT -5
Isn't that type of player as an OH pretty much exactly what a traditional 2 person passing system is predicated on? Do you honestly think that John Dunning wouldn't use Stacey Gordon as a primary passer for Stanford if he had her on the team? There isn't a coach in the country that wouldn't have been ecstatic to have Stacey on their team for the past four years as their primary passer AND go to offensive player. Internationally that is EXACTLY the type of player that is preferred because they don't need to be hidden on serve receive and they don't become a liability in the back row like the numerous front row only, offense only players that are available. Not just that. The FIVB rulebook only allows for 6 subs per game. Many of these collegiate offense-only players benefit from the NCAA's 12 subs per game. Nnamani barely played back row her first two seasons. Brie Hagerty is playing front row only this season, although she played back row in previous seasons.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 14, 2004 0:36:40 GMT -5
So many anti-Stanford-motivated pundits and self-confessed inabilities to understand and respond to simple English sentences and interjections of international irrelevancies, are not going to get me to negotiate against myself! ;D ;D
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Post by cbrown1709 on Dec 14, 2004 0:42:59 GMT -5
Wasn't one of the better OHs from the China squad subbed out in the backrow?
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Post by foreignball on Dec 14, 2004 0:53:30 GMT -5
Both deserve it. If I had a vote and could only vote for one, it would be Ogonna. A question for you, GatorVball: I'm recalling you posted several times SG had her name engraved on 2004 POY award long time ago. So I'm guessing you have changed your mind since Stanford played Florida in round 2, right?
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Post by Gorf on Dec 14, 2004 0:56:25 GMT -5
(not for the stat table you produced, though) "I challenge you to post an objective comparison of Ogonna and Stacy statistics commencing with their conference season matches up to the present." That's what you asked for, what you got was their conference stats in the table.
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