BYU 2022

[Zazu]

[azvb]

Wait-Kate Grimmer is a senior?

[Zazu]

Nov 22, 2022 20:11:24 GMT -5 azvb said:

Wait-Kate Grimmer is a senior?

Yes, but she does have a COVID year if she elected to use it. Jarom Jordan has said that Gneiting is the only player without any eligibility left, but I don't think Abby Taylor does either. I don't think she ever redshirted, so this would be her 5th year. Kelsey Knudsen did redshirt one year at Saint Mary's, so she has a COVID year too, as do Clinger and Dayton.

It appears that Llarenas has already decided to come back, though I don't think that was a surprise.

[bbg95]

Nov 22, 2022 20:11:24 GMT -5 azvb said:

Wait-Kate Grimmer is a senior?

Yeah, she's a senior. Her first year was 2019, so she's on year four. As Zazu mentioned, she does have a year of eligibility left due to Covid. 

[kk1971]

A few random observations about the match last night:

1. As before, I am impressed with this San Diego team. IMO, they aren't the 2nd best team in the country, but they are in the top 8 and at a level where anything can happen if they get on a roll. No shame for BYU to lose to this team. In fact, I was impressed with out lady Cougars last night. Passing was much improved in the first couple of sets and we were upping balls last night defensively that I didn't see in San Diego or earlier this year against other top teams. And when SD did go on their runs, I was impressed that we didn't fold emotionally. Even though we lost in 4, we weren't as overmatched as I had feared we would be. Kudos to Heather and the coaching staff to have the girls ready.

2. Kate Prior is legit. We knew that already obviously, but it was fun to hear Sunderland and his announcing partner gush about her. If I am correct that she has never played right side before, what she is doing is pretty impressive, especially against a really good SD block. She is clearly a quick study as well as a great athlete and while before I expected Heather to move her back to the middle next year, now I think I agree with the announcers that Prior has found a new home. I suspect that part of the team's emotional resilience last night comes from having Prior on the RS. And she makes our block so much better as well.

3. I had earlier speculated that maybe Gneiting was playing hurt. The announcers confirmed it last night. Given that, what she has done this year is maybe more impressive than I thought.

4. I was impressed with how Livingston kept swinging after a rough start. It says a lot about her, I think, that she got stronger as the match went on. If she can continue to grow and develop in the way that RJP did, she will be really good for us next year.

[bbg95]

Nov 23, 2022 11:50:18 GMT -5 kk1971 said:

A few random observations about the match last night:

1. As before, I am impressed with this San Diego team. IMO, they aren't the 2nd best team in the country, but they are in the top 8 and at a level where anything can happen if they get on a roll. No shame for BYU to lose to this team. In fact, I was impressed with out lady Cougars last night. Passing was much improved in the first couple of sets and we were upping balls last night defensively that I didn't see in San Diego or earlier this year against other top teams. And when SD did go on their runs, I was impressed that we didn't fold emotionally. Even though we lost in 4, we weren't as overmatched as I had feared we would be. Kudos to Heather and the coaching staff to have the girls ready.

2. Kate Prior is legit. We knew that already obviously, but it was fun to hear Sunderland and his announcing partner gush about her. If I am correct that she has never played right side before, what she is doing is pretty impressive, especially against a really good SD block. She is clearly a quick study as well as a great athlete and while before I expected Heather to move her back to the middle next year, now I think I agree with the announcers that Prior has found a new home. I suspect that part of the team's emotional resilience last night comes from having Prior on the RS. And she makes our block so much better as well.

3. I had earlier speculated that maybe Gneiting was playing hurt. The announcers confirmed it last night. Given that, what she has done this year is maybe more impressive than I thought.

4. I was impressed with how Livingston kept swinging after a rough start. It says a lot about her, I think, that she got stronger as the match went on. If she can continue to grow and develop in the way that RJP did, she will be really good for us next year.

Good observations. I haven't watched the San Diego match yet, but judging by the box score, it looks like the outside hitters have to be better. Livingston hit 13-8-42 (.119), and Stowell hit 5-4-14 (.058). That's not good enough against top 10 teams. As for Prior, I took a look at her team bio, and she was recruited by a lot of top schools, including Texas, Penn State, Florida, UCLA and USC, among others. It will be interesting to see what Olmstead does with the middles next season. Llaranas should have one spot locked down, and they have Brielle Kemavor and Mia Lee coming in, and Allie Hakes should be back from her mission in Spain in the next few months. Prior and Albright are also on the roster. I'm not 100% sure that Prior will stay at opposite. She might, but I could see her moving back to the middle as well. I think it probably will depend on how quickly Kemavor and Lee develop and where they fit in. Both are elite jumpers (10'7"+).

[kk1971]

Nov 24, 2022 6:41:09 GMT -5 bbg95 said:

Nov 23, 2022 11:50:18 GMT -5 kk1971 said:

A few random observations about the match last night:

1. As before, I am impressed with this San Diego team. IMO, they aren't the 2nd best team in the country, but they are in the top 8 and at a level where anything can happen if they get on a roll. No shame for BYU to lose to this team. In fact, I was impressed with out lady Cougars last night. Passing was much improved in the first couple of sets and we were upping balls last night defensively that I didn't see in San Diego or earlier this year against other top teams. And when SD did go on their runs, I was impressed that we didn't fold emotionally. Even though we lost in 4, we weren't as overmatched as I had feared we would be. Kudos to Heather and the coaching staff to have the girls ready.

2. Kate Prior is legit. We knew that already obviously, but it was fun to hear Sunderland and his announcing partner gush about her. If I am correct that she has never played right side before, what she is doing is pretty impressive, especially against a really good SD block. She is clearly a quick study as well as a great athlete and while before I expected Heather to move her back to the middle next year, now I think I agree with the announcers that Prior has found a new home. I suspect that part of the team's emotional resilience last night comes from having Prior on the RS. And she makes our block so much better as well.

3. I had earlier speculated that maybe Gneiting was playing hurt. The announcers confirmed it last night. Given that, what she has done this year is maybe more impressive than I thought.

4. I was impressed with how Livingston kept swinging after a rough start. It says a lot about her, I think, that she got stronger as the match went on. If she can continue to grow and develop in the way that RJP did, she will be really good for us next year.

Good observations. I haven't watched the San Diego match yet, but judging by the box score, it looks like the outside hitters have to be better. Livingston hit 13-8-42 (.119), and Stowell hit 5-4-14 (.058). That's not good enough against top 10 teams. As for Prior, I took a look at her team bio, and she was recruited by a lot of top schools, including Texas, Penn State, Florida, UCLA and USC, among others. It will be interesting to see what Olmstead does with the middles next season. Llaranas should have one spot locked down, and they have Brielle Kemavor and Mia Lee coming in, and Allie Hakes should be back from her mission in Spain in the next few months. Prior and Albright are also on the roster. I'm not 100% sure that Prior will stay at opposite. She might, but I could see her moving back to the middle as well. I think it probably will depend on how quickly Kemavor and Lee develop and where they fit in. Both are elite jumpers (10'7"+).

I would be shocked if Lee comes in at MB.  I was impressed with Albright from the scrimmage and think Hakes is the prototypical BYU middle--takes up a lot of space and somewhat imposing even if not particularly quick side to side.  I do agree that Llarenas should have one spot locked down, but I have gone back and forth on whether or not Prior is moved back to MB when Gneiting moves in a few matches.   I really like Kemavor.  A lot.  My thought currently is that you are right that if some combination of Kemavor/Hakes/Albright can be solid, then Prior can stay RS.   But I would be shocked if Lee is in the middle.  And clearly, I know nothing.   

[bbg95]

Nov 24, 2022 18:27:05 GMT -5 kk1971 said:

Nov 24, 2022 6:41:09 GMT -5 bbg95 said:

Good observations. I haven't watched the San Diego match yet, but judging by the box score, it looks like the outside hitters have to be better. Livingston hit 13-8-42 (.119), and Stowell hit 5-4-14 (.058). That's not good enough against top 10 teams. As for Prior, I took a look at her team bio, and she was recruited by a lot of top schools, including Texas, Penn State, Florida, UCLA and USC, among others. It will be interesting to see what Olmstead does with the middles next season. Llaranas should have one spot locked down, and they have Brielle Kemavor and Mia Lee coming in, and Allie Hakes should be back from her mission in Spain in the next few months. Prior and Albright are also on the roster. I'm not 100% sure that Prior will stay at opposite. She might, but I could see her moving back to the middle as well. I think it probably will depend on how quickly Kemavor and Lee develop and where they fit in. Both are elite jumpers (10'7"+).

I would be shocked if Lee comes in at MB.  I was impressed with Albright from the scrimmage and think Hakes is the prototypical BYU middle--takes up a lot of space and somewhat imposing even if not particularly quick side to side.  I do agree that Llarenas should have one spot locked down, but I have gone back and forth on whether or not Prior is moved back to MB when Gneiting moves in a few matches.   I really like Kemavor.  A lot.  My thought currently is that you are right that if some combination of Kemavor/Hakes/Albright can be solid, then Prior can stay RS.   But I would be shocked if Lee is in the middle.  And clearly, I know nothing.   

I think it's more likely that Lee would play at opposite, and that might happen if Prior moves back to the middle. I don't think there's any real reason to believe that Prior wouldn't be successful in the middle, since that's her natural position. I think Olmstead will try to find the best combination. I definitely think she has some kind of plan to use Lee as a weapon at some point. She jumped 10'7" as a freshman in high school, which is an extremely impressive number. I agree that Lee probably won't play middle at the next level, but that is her natural position, so it's not completely out of the realm of possibility.

[marnvbc2]

If we are trying to Devine what Ms Richardson had or heard in her brain, there will never be progress. She can't point out any racist remark that can be backed up by any video, audio, teammate, security personnel, Duke coach or administrator. If you make an accusation of this magnitude, there needs to be some shred of evidence that you aren't making things up. She doesn't have anything on her side. If she hadn't gotten pulled from the starting lineup by her coach right before she made the allegation she may not have made it. With her out of the Duke lineup BYU goes down 0-11. If Ms Richardson was bothered by racist remarks, she would have distanced herself from her racist god mother in Ft Worth. She didn't and hasn't done that. She is a cancer on the Duke program.

[juancook]

Nov 25, 2022 14:24:09 GMT -5 marnvbc2 said:

If we are trying to Devine what Ms Richardson had or heard in her brain, there will never be progress. She can't point out any racist remark that can be backed up by any video, audio, teammate, security personnel, Duke coach or administrator. If you make an accusation of this magnitude, there needs to be some shred of evidence that you aren't making things up. She doesn't have anything on her side. If she hadn't gotten pulled from the starting lineup by her coach right before she made the allegation she may not have made it. With her out of the Duke lineup BYU goes down 0-11. If Ms Richardson was bothered by racist remarks, she would have distanced herself from her racist god mother in Ft Worth. She didn't and hasn't done that. She is a cancer on the Duke program.

LOL.  Fighting fire with fire huh? 

[marnvbc2]

kk1971 - I mostly agree with your comments, although, hitters in HS are very dependent on having a good setter to show what they are really made of. Hence my comment about that MView team of M Lee. Not a good setter at all in that program so it is difficult to get a feel for Lee in HS. But, if you give Lee an elite setter at club she is clearly big time. Now I will admit that the club V coach put her in the wrong position and did some really dumb things just to get small (non elite) pin hitters on the floor) but even at MB with a good location setter on her court, you could see the special player she is. I will say that of all the players on that athlete filled team, the player with the highest upside was the youngest player. T Harvey will be a great D-1 vb player and probably a higher ceiling than anyone else if she stays healthy and doesn't get worn down by the V organization sending their top team to every conceivable tourney to try to build a coaching reputation.

[marnvbc2]

Nov 22, 2022 13:30:29 GMT -5 kk1971 said:

Nov 13, 2022 3:04:33 GMT -5 marnvbc2 said:

Watching any recruit against top competition is the only way to see what they are made of.  Recruiting rankings are notoriously unreliable.  Unless it is a rare HS team, it is hard to determine just how good a player is.  Many great HS players appear to be sure fire D-1 top prospects.  I prefer watching the open division of club to see what an athlete can actually do.  That avenue showed me that Eden Bower will not be a 6 rotation player on a top 25 team, nor will she be a great hitter/blocker.  But, her build is proto-type D-1.  Looks were deceiving.  Stowell might end up a serviceable OH but that is a "might" and not all that certain.  Little has a much higher upside than those mentioned but it will be up to her work ethic and ability to settle on proper passing technique to excel and carry the title of the next great BYU OH.  Her potential is high.

marnvbc2   I still disagree on your assessment of Eden Bower.  Remember she missed a year due to injury and played catchup really from then on out.  My opionion is that she has improved continuosly defensively which is all you can ask.  I still think she will be an impact player for BYU before she graduates.   

I totally agree with you on Little and her potential.  It will be interesting to see how hard working and coachable she is.  If she is, she will be awfully good before she leaves. And I mostly agree on your comments about Open division club play vs. high school.   I agree that you have to see how they perform against the top competition, and if they can't do it there they may well not be able to do it at the D1 level.  That said, where I find value in HS is that the top club teams are really only all star teams with few weaknesses.  A HS team can have a really good player that is forced to constantly adapt and play out of system.  That, to me, is also very useful.  So if they can't make it at the club level I agree with you that that tells me something.  But if the club star can't make it on HS, that might tell me they are dependant on everything going right to be good.  The ideal recruit will be a star at both levels, because they tell you different things.   My .02. 

Let's stop on this E Bower situation for a moment.  We are both projecting what we believe and one of us won't be correct.  My question for you re W Bower:  Who will she beat out to have an "impact" at OH at BYU?  Because she will have to be a starter to be an "impact" player.  Right?  Erin L, Stowell, Callahan or Little or a host of other OH's that are or will be on the roster at BYU before E Bower graduates?  If Little is as good as we think she is, Bower will have to beat out all other OH's by the time she is a senior to get her shot.  My issues will E Bower are these: 1) Lack of footspeed 2) Lack of hops 3) Lack of quick arm swing (she uses a roundhouse approach) so it give blockers and passers more time to judge where she is going with the ball 4) lack of ability to stay healthy which limits her time to actually improve her skills 5) W Bower leaving the program and no other setter who will take the time to give her the ball in her own pocket at her own speed.  It is shocking to me that Olmstead pulled her from the lineup (but I agreed with her) in favor or either Stowell or  Callahan.  IMO Little will have more space between her and E Bower than any other OH on the roster so that will put Callahan and Little ahead of Bower and really put her behind a loaded field.  With all this said, how do you see E Bower making her way through the competition and staying healthy and making an impact before she leaves BYU?

[marnvbc2]

Nov 22, 2022 20:14:14 GMT -5 Zazu said:

Nov 22, 2022 20:11:24 GMT -5 azvb said:

Wait-Kate Grimmer is a senior?

Yes, but she does have a COVID year if she elected to use it. Jarom Jordan has said that Gneiting is the only player without any eligibility left, but I don't think Abby Taylor does either. I don't think she ever redshirted, so this would be her 5th year. Kelsey Knudsen did redshirt one year at Saint Mary's, so she has a COVID year too, as do Clinger and Dayton.

It appears that Llarenas has already decided to come back, though I don't think that was a surprise.

I am very happy for the health of the program to see all these girls move on.  Exception is Heather G.  Mission cost her a Covid year.  There still needs to be some honest conversations with other players on the roster who simply don't have the ability to play at an elite level and get them to move off the roster.  

[marnvbc2]

Nov 25, 2022 14:45:01 GMT -5 juancook said:

Nov 25, 2022 14:24:09 GMT -5 marnvbc2 said:

If we are trying to Devine what Ms Richardson had or heard in her brain, there will never be progress. She can't point out any racist remark that can be backed up by any video, audio, teammate, security personnel, Duke coach or administrator. If you make an accusation of this magnitude, there needs to be some shred of evidence that you aren't making things up. She doesn't have anything on her side. If she hadn't gotten pulled from the starting lineup by her coach right before she made the allegation she may not have made it. With her out of the Duke lineup BYU goes down 0-11. If Ms Richardson was bothered by racist remarks, she would have distanced herself from her racist god mother in Ft Worth. She didn't and hasn't done that. She is a cancer on the Duke program.

LOL.  Fighting fire with fire huh? 

I am just tired of racism period!  But I am equally tired of claims of racism which aren't true either!  Do away with both and we all be better off.  Judging this subject by what a person may or may not have in their own head is crazy!

[kk1971]

Nov 25, 2022 15:21:18 GMT -5 marnvbc2 said:

Nov 22, 2022 13:30:29 GMT -5 kk1971 said:

marnvbc2   I still disagree on your assessment of Eden Bower.  Remember she missed a year due to injury and played catchup really from then on out.  My opionion is that she has improved continuosly defensively which is all you can ask.  I still think she will be an impact player for BYU before she graduates.   

I totally agree with you on Little and her potential.  It will be interesting to see how hard working and coachable she is.  If she is, she will be awfully good before she leaves. And I mostly agree on your comments about Open division club play vs. high school.   I agree that you have to see how they perform against the top competition, and if they can't do it there they may well not be able to do it at the D1 level.  That said, where I find value in HS is that the top club teams are really only all star teams with few weaknesses.  A HS team can have a really good player that is forced to constantly adapt and play out of system.  That, to me, is also very useful.  So if they can't make it at the club level I agree with you that that tells me something.  But if the club star can't make it on HS, that might tell me they are dependant on everything going right to be good.  The ideal recruit will be a star at both levels, because they tell you different things.   My .02. 

Let's stop on this E Bower situation for a moment.  We are both projecting what we believe and one of us won't be correct.  My question for you re W Bower:  Who will she beat out to have an "impact" at OH at BYU?  Because she will have to be a starter to be an "impact" player.  Right?  Erin L, Stowell, Callahan or Little or a host of other OH's that are or will be on the roster at BYU before E Bower graduates?  If Little is as good as we think she is, Bower will have to beat out all other OH's by the time she is a senior to get her shot.  My issues will E Bower are these: 1) Lack of footspeed 2) Lack of hops 3) Lack of quick arm swing (she uses a roundhouse approach) so it give blockers and passers more time to judge where she is going with the ball 4) lack of ability to stay healthy which limits her time to actually improve her skills 5) W Bower leaving the program and no other setter who will take the time to give her the ball in her own pocket at her own speed.  It is shocking to me that Olmstead pulled her from the lineup (but I agreed with her) in favor or either Stowell or  Callahan.  IMO Little will have more space between her and E Bower than any other OH on the roster so that will put Callahan and Little ahead of Bower and really put her behind a loaded field.  With all this said, how do you see E Bower making her way through the competition and staying healthy and making an impact before she leaves BYU?

marnvbc2.   I got to say that I love that you think seriously about this.   We don't always agree, but I do love that you genuinely express your point of view and are passionate about it.

Lots to respond to about E. Bower.  First, I don't believe she has the lack of footspeed or hops that you feel she does.  I agree that she isn't an Erin Livingston or RJP type jumper.  On that we agree.  But I have watched every BYU game that has been televised or have been in person.   She is every bit a good enough athlete, IMO, especially for her size and height, to be a very effective D1 OH.  Proof is in the pudding--to hit .242 against a relatively difficult early part of the schedule as a true freshman who, as previously pointed out, missed a year of volleyball previously and so has been playing catch up is nothing to sneeze at.  That's my opinion.  The fact that she started the season as the 02 OH over Stowell or Callahan suggests that Heather shares or at least shared that opinion  too.  You may see it differently, and I respect that. You could prove to be right.  But I expect E. Bower to be a hard worker that will improve from year to year and be a major factor in future years.  

The second part of your question, who she would replace is all about time frames.   It is also obviously difficult to really predict or know what will happen with incoming talent, players improving (or not), etc.  But the possibilities I see for E. Bower to play on the pins next year is (1) if she works really hard during the offseason and comes in and wins the 02 OH position outright from Stowell, Callahan, Moravec, and/or Little, or (2), if Heather decides the best arms need to be on the court against an improving schedule in the Big 12 and moves her to the right side to back up Prior (assuming she stays there).  This is the thought process that would have had Heather Olmstead play Prior on the RS long before she did, recognizing that Prior playing "out of position" helps us more than keeping her as a backup MB.  Given that, I can also see a scenario where E. Bower beats out Mia Lee, Sophia Callahan, and/or Alyssa Montoya to be the back up RS, assuming she didn't win the 02 spot outright.  I actually really like this idea of moving her to the RS although  I freely admit I have no idea how it would work out (can E. Bower learn a new position like Prior just did?  Would she be willing if asked?).

Where I really see her having an impact though would be in two seasons following Livingston's graduation.  I believe that she has more upside than Stowell (and I am a Stowell fan) or Callahan.  I have no idea about Moravec.   Bobick has hops (reminds me of E. Livingston) and I haven't watched any tape on Hoybjerg, but I don't believe either of those to be good enough when they come in fresh out of high school in a few years to supplant Bower.  I actually think if Heather chooses to not use her on the RS next year, and assuming she doesn't outright win the 2nd OH spot, I would redshirt her and really hone her skills.  So yes, I believe that before she graduates, assuming she has the work ethic I believe her to have and assuming she stays healthy, E. Bower will be starting and making an impact for BYU at the OH.  My best guess for BYU's starting outsides in the post-Livingston era is for an E. Bower=C. Little OH rotation that will help BYU to compete at a very high level in the Big 12 for years to come.  I believe they are the future and that they could be very good.  You just might have to be a little patient.      

And I gotta say again that I love the dialogue.  Lets keep it up.