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Post by kk1971 on Nov 25, 2022 17:59:45 GMT -5
marnvbc2. I got to say that I love that you think seriously about this. We don't always agree, but I do love that you genuinely express your point of view and are passionate about it. Lots to respond to about E. Bower. First, I don't believe she has the lack of footspeed or hops that you feel she does. I agree that she isn't an Erin Livingston or RJP type jumper. On that we agree. But I have watched every BYU game that has been televised or have been in person. She is every bit a good enough athlete, IMO, especially for her size and height, to be a very effective D1 OH. Proof is in the pudding--to hit .242 against a relatively difficult early part of the schedule as a true freshman who, as previously pointed out, missed a year of volleyball previously and so has been playing catch up is nothing to sneeze at. That's my opinion. The fact that she started the season as the 02 OH over Stowell or Callahan suggests that Heather shares or at least shared that opinion too. You may see it differently, and I respect that. You could prove to be right. But I expect E. Bower to be a hard worker that will improve from year to year and be a major factor in future years. The second part of your question, who she would replace is all about time frames. It is also obviously difficult to really predict or know what will happen with incoming talent, players improving (or not), etc. But the possibilities I see for E. Bower to play on the pins next year is (1) if she works really hard during the offseason and comes in and wins the 02 OH position outright from Stowell, Callahan, Moravec, and/or Little, or (2), if Heather decides the best arms need to be on the court against an improving schedule in the Big 12 and moves her to the right side to back up Prior (assuming she stays there). This is the thought process that would have had Heather Olmstead play Prior on the RS long before she did, recognizing that Prior playing "out of position" helps us more than keeping her as a backup MB. Given that, I can also see a scenario where E. Bower beats out Mia Lee, Sophia Callahan, and/or Alyssa Montoya to be the back up RS, assuming she didn't win the 02 spot outright. I actually really like this idea of moving her to the RS although I freely admit I have no idea how it would work out (can E. Bower learn a new position like Prior just did? Would she be willing if asked?). Where I really see her having an impact though would be in the seasons following Livingston's graduation. I believe that she has more upside than Stowell (and I am a Stowell fan) or Callahan. I have no idea about Moravec. Bobick has hops (reminds me of E. Livingston) and I haven't watched any tape on Hoybjerg, but I don't believe either of those to be good enough when they come in fresh out of high school in a few years to supplant Bower. I actually think assuming she doesn't outright win the 2nd OH spot next year, and assuming Heather chooses to not use her on the RS next year, I would redshirt her and really hone her skills. So yes, I believe that before she graduates, assuming she has the work ethic I believe her to have and assuming she stays healthy, E. Bower will be starting and making a major impact for BYU at the OH position. In fact, my best guess for BYU's starting outsides in the post-Livingston era is for an E. Bower=C. Little OH rotation that will help BYU to compete at a very high level in the Big 12 for years to come. I believe they are the future and that they could be very good. You just might have to be a little patient.  And I gotta say again that I love the dialogue. Lets keep it up. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Nov 26, 2022 21:01:56 GMT -5
I feel sorry for her enduring years of people looking up at this 6-3 woman and making some comment about how she's not actually all that little. I missed this comment! Totally funny .... |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Nov 26, 2022 21:26:23 GMT -5
what’s your confidence level that we can pull out a win in Provo tonight? Well Karma - no one is talking about the loss to USD. I do think there was progress for the BYU program in the loss. The movement of Taylor onto the bench is something I felt Heather would do, but I was not in favor of the move at all. To the surprise of almost everyone (including myself) Taylor has a good connection with her hitters and while she isn't as athletic as Bower she is a more accurate setter and I might add that she is less readable. She isn't in the same stealth mode as Blossom who can fake her own teammates out on ball location, but Taylor should have stayed at setter and Bower should have replaced Grimmer. With that said, we continue to see progress on the front row and particularly in blocking. The increased block helps the passers. It is hard to get Bower to back set to Prior as much as Taylor would .... another sign that Bower's decision making (and Olmstead's not directing correctly) isn't good on the Opp. Prior needs 10 more sets a match (20-26) in total. I think she was at 13 for the match. BYU coaches just have to get into Prior and make sure the setter is prioritizing the back set. It is painful right now. NCAA tourney is a great starting place to get it going. |
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Zazu
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Post by Zazu on Nov 28, 2022 0:14:38 GMT -5
what’s your confidence level that we can pull out a win in Provo tonight? Well Karma - no one is talking about the loss to USD. I do think there was progress for the BYU program in the loss. The movement of Taylor onto the bench is something I felt Heather would do, but I was not in favor of the move at all. To the surprise of almost everyone (including myself) Taylor has a good connection with her hitters and while she isn't as athletic as Bower she is a more accurate setter and I might add that she is less readable. She isn't in the same stealth mode as Blossom who can fake her own teammates out on ball location, but Taylor should have stayed at setter and Bower should have replaced Grimmer. With that said, we continue to see progress on the front row and particularly in blocking. The increased block helps the passers. It is hard to get Bower to back set to Prior as much as Taylor would .... another sign that Bower's decision making (and Olmstead's not directing correctly) isn't good on the Opp. Prior needs 10 more sets a match (20-26) in total. I think she was at 13 for the match. BYU coaches just have to get into Prior and make sure the setter is prioritizing the back set. It is painful right now. NCAA tourney is a great starting place to get it going. I wanted to see Taylor set against San Diego as well. I mentioned in the WCC thread that I wouldn't mind seeing her play the rest of the season. I don't feel as strongly about it as you do, but after seven seasons of athletic muscle setters, I was really enjoying watching Taylor's style and less predictability. Bower did fine, especially coming back from injury. She set Prior 18 times (three more than Stowell), and I thought she set her fairly well for this match. I'd like to see her do it more often, but she's never been very good at back sets in general, though she has gotten pretty good at slide sets this year. Her back sets out of system are so-so for this level, so with BYU's passing it's not surprising we don't see more of them. I've seen back sets from Taylor that Bower is either not willing to try or unable to do well. I couldn't help wondering how Taylor would have done. It's not that I thought they would win with her in, I just wanted to see how it would play out. I thought your original assessment of Taylor was way too severe--thankfully it was way off the mark--but I certainly didn't expect her to do so well.
As far as the match goes, I thought they did as well as they could against San Diego. It was very similar to the match against Pittsburgh. They won the one set they were able to hold their own in serving and passing, and when they couldn't do that, they couldn't keep up. I was really disappointed by two coaching decisions--not using Taylor as a serving sub until the fourth set and starting Callahan in place of Stowell in the fourth set. They should have left Stowell in, as there was no way Callahan was going to last with her terrible passing and hits-hard-and knows-nothing-else swings.
There are plenty of things I disagree with you about, yet I share your desire to see W. Bower play as a defensive specialist. I started wanting to see it back when she was a freshman. Who knows if she can pass, but since BYU's threshold isn't that high, you'd think she could do it. I'd be absolutely shocked though if it was ever even considered by the coaches.
Lastly I was very impressed with Prior in this match. I wasn't sure watching on the streams how much control she had or how purposeful her swings were, but in person it looked like she was definitely seeing the block and placing her shots strategically. The ball comes with more velocity than you expect from the look of her arm swing. I really, really like her on the right side. To me she already looks better offensively on the right side than I've ever seen her in the middle. I want her to stay there if at all possible. That's my two cents (or two dollars these days).
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BYU 2022
Nov 28, 2022 0:16:46 GMT -5
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Post by karma on Nov 28, 2022 0:16:46 GMT -5
How we feeling about the bracket and our placement? Honestly, I will be satisfied and impressed if we can make the sweet 16. I know to many top programs that is not a fulfilling goal, but for this team this year I think that’s a good thing to shoot for. It will be tough, with Pitt standing in the way. But, you have to wonder after losing two straight to Pitt in tight 4 sets each time if the Cougars are the ones who come out on top this time around. Third times the charm? We will see!
I know nothing about JMU other than looking at their record. So I guess I should back up a little and hope we even get past them, but I’m fairly confident. If BYU is playing their best consistently and if Prior is heavily involved in the offense I think BYU makes the elite 8 at best. I don’t think their best is enough to take down Wisconsin but I think it would be a close battle with Florida.
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Post by bbg95 on Nov 28, 2022 0:22:34 GMT -5
How we feeling about the bracket and our placement? Honestly, I will be satisfied and impressed if we can make the sweet 16. I know to many top programs that is not a fulfilling goal, but for this team this year I think that’s a good thing to shoot for. It will be tough, with Pitt standing in the way. But, you have to wonder after losing two straight to Pitt in tight 4 sets each time if the Cougars are the ones who come out on top this time around. Third times the charm? We will see! I know nothing about JMU other than looking at their record. So I guess I should back up a little and hope we even get past them, but I’m fairly confident. If BYU is playing their best consistently and if Prior is heavily involved in the offense I think BYU makes the elite 8 at best. I don’t think their best is enough to take down Wisconsin but I think it would be a close battle with Florida. I think the Sweet 16 is very optimistic with this draw and would be a great result. Second round is more realistic, and I'd be okay with it. The team just didn't have the players this year to keep up with top 10 teams. But I look forward to seeing what they can do next season with an exciting freshman class. |
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Zazu
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Post by Zazu on Nov 28, 2022 0:33:06 GMT -5
How we feeling about the bracket and our placement? Honestly, I will be satisfied and impressed if we can make the sweet 16. I know to many top programs that is not a fulfilling goal, but for this team this year I think that’s a good thing to shoot for. It will be tough, with Pitt standing in the way. But, you have to wonder after losing two straight to Pitt in tight 4 sets each time if the Cougars are the ones who come out on top this time around. Third times the charm? We will see! I know nothing about JMU other than looking at their record. So I guess I should back up a little and hope we even get past them, but I’m fairly confident. If BYU is playing their best consistently and if Prior is heavily involved in the offense I think BYU makes the elite 8 at best. I don’t think their best is enough to take down Wisconsin but I think it would be a close battle with Florida. I think the Sweet 16 is very optimistic with this draw and would be a great result. Second round is more realistic, and I'd be okay with it. The team just didn't have the players this year to keep up with top 10 teams. But I look forward to seeing what they can do next season with an exciting freshman class. I think the same as bbg95. They do seem to be playing about as well as they can right now, so that's good. |
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Post by mintonetteman on Nov 28, 2022 12:31:01 GMT -5
Interesting comment "as well as they can right now." Not sure how to interpret that...sounds like coach speak or an excuse. Let's be honest...the committee told us exactly how good this team is with the seed. I honestly cannot believe they put in Pepperdine...after watching them in person...not even sure they want to still play.
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BYU 2022
Nov 28, 2022 14:13:54 GMT -5
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Post by DaTruf on Nov 28, 2022 14:13:54 GMT -5
I think the Sweet 16 is very optimistic with this draw and would be a great result. Second round is more realistic, and I'd be okay with it. The team just didn't have the players this year to keep up with top 10 teams. But I look forward to seeing what they can do next season with an exciting freshman class. I think the same as bbg95. They do seem to be playing about as well as they can right now, so that's good. I agree we are playing much better then we were mid-season, but after rewatching the PITT vs. Georgia Tech last night I’m fearing we just can’t generate enough defense in the back court to keep plays alive like they can. Passing has improved, we have more hitters we can go to, Blocking well, Offensively I felt we were strong against a very strong USD team sticking with them to the end of most sets … we just don’t have defensive strength to match these better teams. If we play our best match and shine defensively and really mop up the back court then I say we might make the Sweet 16 and feel very very good about that. |
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Zazu
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Posts: 1,536
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Post by Zazu on Nov 28, 2022 15:17:18 GMT -5
Guess I'll elaborate a bit on the "they do seem to be playing about as well as they can right now, so that's good" comment. I wasn't trying to be cryptic, I was trying to say what I meant in as short a way as possible, as I've been pretty tired the last week and not up to more than one long-winded post a day. To me this team is playing at its skill level. Their ceiling isn't as high as it has been other years. I think they've improved in some areas slightly, but that's not enough to bridge the gap between them and teams like San Diego. I don't think they are capable of more than that. They are fighting hard on the court even when their execution is lacking. That's a positive--a good sign. I was worried they might devolve into something like the 2019 team, which became a shadow of what it had been earlier in the season.
EDIT: I knew this team would not win the WCC Conference after watching the scrimmage. I thought they would do well to finish 2nd. I really thought 3rd would be good. They exceeded my expectations on that. However, I also had a few moments when I thought they might be better that I had thought they would be, but as soon as they played Pittsburgh, and I saw what would happen when a team could apply consistent pressure on their weak points, I knew their ceiling was not that high.
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Post by marnvbc2 on Nov 28, 2022 17:04:20 GMT -5
BYU added another commit to their 2024 class with Lulu Uluave from Hawaii. She's listed at 5'9", so while she plays on the pins in high school, she will almost certainly a libero or defensive specialist at the P5 level. I don't know much about her, but she's averaging 3.1 digs/set this season according to MaxPreps. https://www.instagram.com/p/ClFWt7gvWca They might to onto something with this girl. Need another 2 bodies to come in and compete for the back row this next season. 2023 need another 4 to come in and then weed out the misses. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Nov 28, 2022 17:52:39 GMT -5
I think the Sweet 16 is very optimistic with this draw and would be a great result. Second round is more realistic, and I'd be okay with it. The team just didn't have the players this year to keep up with top 10 teams. But I look forward to seeing what they can do next season with an exciting freshman class. I think the same as bbg95 . They do seem to be playing about as well as they can right now, so that's good. I agree that the match ups will be tough for BYU to get past Pitt in this tourney. JMU is a sleeper team with much better athletes than many realize. But JMU isn't used to the tourney and probably can't stay with BYU with no experience at the NCAA's. My past comments re Abby Taylor's ability to play an impact role at BYU had more to do with BYU signing a transfer that has only 1 year remaining than going after one of the 2 setters in their backyard who would be freshman. Both of them, from what I was told (3 weeks ago) by someone off this board, would have considered BYU and both of them are now in the NCAA tourney as freshman. BYU would have been first choice even over Florida! It just doesn't build a program to get a transfer who only has 1 yr of eligibility remaining and bypass freshman who have huge upside and 4 or 5 years of training available for the BYU staff. I know that there was an assistant who lobbied hard for one of these setters but it didn't happen. I believe that Heather was wrong in her talent evaluation. She has been wrong with talent evaluation on the back row for 3 or 4 years, at Opp (twice) and at OH (twice) just this season. Would W Bower be a better passer than Grimmer? I think so. Is Taylor more accurate than Bower to the OH and a better back setter? That is also obvious. Would having Bower on the floor with Taylor present huge problems for the competition? I think so. Should Prior receive 30% more sets at Opp? Are the hitting percentages worrisome at OH? Does Taylor use the MB's more than Bower does as a setter? It also appears that Heather has decided that E Bower is the 3rd option at OH(2) and the 3rd or 4th option at Opp. Lots of confusing issues if an outside (non BYU) source simply tries to follow the logic of the lineups throughout the year. It is just puzzling. Next year might be Heather's opportunity to stabilize the ship but if that happens it will be because of better athletes and recruiting. The passing dept (roster) better not close early. If BYU can carry 6 DS's they should. Competition will show us who can play/pass but at this point I am not taking Heather's word on anything performance related in the passing arena. We won't know the upside of several players who didn't see the court this year. If we see them next year and they are "gamers" it will give me more pause, but if they can't play at an elite level, I will be even more mystified! Let's see how quickly BYU handles JMU and then how the wrinkle of Prior at Opp impacts Pitt. We might all be pleasantly surprised by the results. It only takes a little confidence at the right time to fire up a team. BYU is close ..... |
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vvv
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Post by vvv on Nov 30, 2022 11:11:48 GMT -5
I think BYU will handle JMU for sure. I don't have the knowledge, but the gut feeling.
Side Note- Just read the Deseret News and Jordyn Harvey got Miss Volleyball, but Damuni took Player of the year for 5A, Lee and Miller on the All state teams and I also didn't realize that Damuni broke the Utah record for assists as well. Club V girls galore on these all state teams.
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Post by exit237a on Nov 30, 2022 13:33:33 GMT -5
Hey BYU fans! I'm drafting a thread for the second round match in the Pittsburgh sub-regional and I'd like to include possible starting lineups for all four teams that might make it to the second round. I'd much appreciate your help in predicting the BYU starting lineup- basically everyone that regularly plays in a given set, all the way through DS and SS. Thanks in advance!
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Post by karma on Nov 30, 2022 13:39:44 GMT -5
Hey BYU fans! I'm drafting a thread for the second round match in the Pittsburgh sub-regional and I'd like to include possible starting lineups for all four teams that might make it to the second round. I'd much appreciate your help in predicting the BYU starting lineup- basically everyone that regularly plays in a given set, all the way through DS and SS. Thanks in advance! OH: Erin Livingston OH: Elyse Stowell (DS Aria McComber) MB: Whitney Llarenas MB: Heather Gneiting OPP: Kate Prior (DS Kate Grimmer) (SS Alyssa Montoya) S: Whitney Bower L: Kelsey Knudsen |
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