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Post by bbg95 on Jan 6, 2022 2:50:57 GMT -5
Why is the departure of Meyer "troubling"? She wasn't going to play for two more seasons (and even then, she still would have had to compete with Damuni). This isn't 2010. Players in that situation tend to transfer. Running a 6-2 last year would have been a comically bad idea. BYU's problem this season wasn't blocking, it was passing. And even then, they still had an extremely high hitting percentage in large part due to their setter. I genuinely don't understand the obsession some people have with 6-2s. It's like having two quarterbacks in football--it very rarely is the ideal solution. Hey I don't love 6-2's either, but Pitt ran one all over BYU and they hadn't realized their mistake of not playing their freshman setter Fairbanks who was rated below Meyer. Fairbanks came on to the court one time at the end of the season against Louisville and never came off the court again. Would Olmstead do something like that? I doubt it. It shows a certain level of humility in a head coach. Meyer won multiple N/C's and she is a blocking phenom. But the questions are these: Could Grimmer block better than Bower? Could Grimmer get more kills than Bower on the front row? Is the WCC competition allowing Olmstead a false sense of security in using a 5'6" setter and then when BYU plays the big boys the tables are mysteriously turned on BYU? I don't blame Meyer of transferring at all. I blame Olmstead for not ever finding any playing time for her. Now look at the setting situation at BYU. What are they going to do. Call Alex Bower up from the minor leagues to graduate HS 2 years early? I'm confident that BYU would have been worse running a 6-2 last season. If Meyer was already an experienced player at the collegiate level, then maybe it could have worked, and I'd be more open to it. But since she was a freshman, I think BYU would have lost a lot of consistency. Olmstead doesn't strike me as the kind of coach that would handicap her team just to play a highly-regarded recruit. Anyway, I'm not worried about BYU's setting the next couple of years. Passing, yes. I'm not exactly sure what Olmstead needs to do to address that weakness, but it is something that has to improve. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jan 6, 2022 2:58:04 GMT -5
Hey I don't love 6-2's either, but Pitt ran one all over BYU and they hadn't realized their mistake of not playing their freshman setter Fairbanks who was rated below Meyer. Fairbanks came on to the court one time at the end of the season against Louisville and never came off the court again. Would Olmstead do something like that? I doubt it. It shows a certain level of humility in a head coach. Meyer won multiple N/C's and she is a blocking phenom. But the questions are these: Could Grimmer block better than Bower? Could Grimmer get more kills than Bower on the front row? Is the WCC competition allowing Olmstead a false sense of security in using a 5'6" setter and then when BYU plays the big boys the tables are mysteriously turned on BYU? I don't blame Meyer of transferring at all. I blame Olmstead for not ever finding any playing time for her. Now look at the setting situation at BYU. What are they going to do. Call Alex Bower up from the minor leagues to graduate HS 2 years early? Oh boy, you don’t get it do you 😂 the value of Meyer as a setter is PRECISELY why she did not see the floor this year. She was redshirted so that BYU can maximize her eligibility in the future years because of the great upside she has that you speak of. There is no way for Olmstead or any coach to predict a player is going to transfer so it was a logical move to redshirt her IMO. Many players are redshirted and stick it out because they see the value in waiting a year. Meyer found another opportunity and while that is unfortunate don’t try to blame Olmstead. If you think Bowers blocking liability was the reason they lost ANY match this season you clearly weren’t paying attention. BYU lost in the end because of passing and any close match that they had it was the same story. Could a 6-2 have worked this year? Maybe. I definitely am not opposed to it, but I don’t think that the decision to stick with Bower was “bad coaching” by any means or a guarantee the Meyer would leave. Actually, a 6-2 would have made a lot of sense for BYU. You don't get that. Bower would still play and Meyer wouldn't leave. BYU would have scored and blocked more than they did with Bower on the front row. Meyer has far more upside than Bower and you would have to expect that a girl that is as highly touted as Meyer would not sit around for a redshirt year and then 2 additional years sitting on the bench and not playing at all behind Bower. A coach has to be realistic that good players aren't going to want to sit for 3 years. That is ridiculous thinking and if Olmstead didnt know that, well she does now. She will in the future. Only 2nd rate players are content to sit for 3 years. You can look at any top 25 program and see that there isn't a single player who waits 3 years before seeing the court ...... and stays with that program or has an impact. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Jan 6, 2022 3:19:39 GMT -5
Hey I don't love 6-2's either, but Pitt ran one all over BYU and they hadn't realized their mistake of not playing their freshman setter Fairbanks who was rated below Meyer. Fairbanks came on to the court one time at the end of the season against Louisville and never came off the court again. Would Olmstead do something like that? I doubt it. It shows a certain level of humility in a head coach. Meyer won multiple N/C's and she is a blocking phenom. But the questions are these: Could Grimmer block better than Bower? Could Grimmer get more kills than Bower on the front row? Is the WCC competition allowing Olmstead a false sense of security in using a 5'6" setter and then when BYU plays the big boys the tables are mysteriously turned on BYU? I don't blame Meyer of transferring at all. I blame Olmstead for not ever finding any playing time for her. Now look at the setting situation at BYU. What are they going to do. Call Alex Bower up from the minor leagues to graduate HS 2 years early? I'm confident that BYU would have been worse running a 6-2 last season. If Meyer was already an experienced player at the collegiate level, then maybe it could have worked, and I'd be more open to it. But since she was a freshman, I think BYU would have lost a lot of consistency. Olmstead doesn't strike me as the kind of coach that would handicap her team just to play a highly-regarded recruit. Anyway, I'm not worried about BYU's setting the next couple of years. Passing, yes. I'm not exactly sure what Olmstead needs to do to address that weakness, but it is something that has to improve. Certainly you have your opinion and I have mine. But here are a few more facts to back mine up. If you aren' t going to play highly regarded freshman, then Bower shouldn't have started as a freshman. If that is the rule then I am fine with it, just don't recruit good freshman if you aren't going to let them play for 3 years because there is about a 98% probability they will leave even if you don't think they will. How will Heather get another setter to come to BYU (who is highly regarded) once they see what just happened to Meyer? They will go elsewhere. They will have 2 years of sitting the bench behind Bower. I have said and will say it again, that Bower will not ever lead BYU past the Sweet 16 because she has large deficiencies when playing elite level teams. She showed that when she was on club. She showed it against Weber, Pitt and Purdue. Just watch those matches and count the kills over Bower. It is a well-known strategy to use against BYU and Bower. Weber knew it from the first point of the match. Just watch that match and see what they did. The Bower blocking issues puts a lot of pressure on the passers of BYU so this is a contributing factor to BYU's passing problems. They simply can't afford to have an average to below average blocking setter with their average passers. I will leave it at that and look forward to seeing if Olmstead can talk a good 2022 setter out of a commitment to another college or find a diamond in the rough who hasn't gotten an offer. If Bower goes down next season, you have no one to blame for the "no back up" issue other than the coaching staff at BYU. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jan 6, 2022 3:34:55 GMT -5
I'm confident that BYU would have been worse running a 6-2 last season. If Meyer was already an experienced player at the collegiate level, then maybe it could have worked, and I'd be more open to it. But since she was a freshman, I think BYU would have lost a lot of consistency. Olmstead doesn't strike me as the kind of coach that would handicap her team just to play a highly-regarded recruit. Anyway, I'm not worried about BYU's setting the next couple of years. Passing, yes. I'm not exactly sure what Olmstead needs to do to address that weakness, but it is something that has to improve. Certainly you have your opinion and I have mine. But here are a few more facts to back mine up. If you aren' t going to play highly regarded freshman, then Bower shouldn't have started as a freshman. If that is the rule then I am fine with it, just don't recruit good freshman if you aren't going to let them play for 3 years because there is about a 98% probability they will leave even if you don't think they will. How will Heather get another setter to come to BYU (who is highly regarded) once they see what just happened to Meyer? They will go elsewhere. They will have 2 years of sitting the bench behind Bower. I have said and will say it again, that Bower will not ever lead BYU past the Sweet 16 because she has large deficiencies when playing elite level teams. She showed that when she was on club. She showed it against Weber, Pitt and Purdue. Just watch those matches and count the kills over Bower. It is a well-known strategy to use against BYU and Bower. Weber knew it from the first point of the match. Just watch that match and see what they did. The Bower blocking issues puts a lot of pressure on the passers of BYU so this is a contributing factor to BYU's passing problems. They simply can't afford to have an average to below average blocking setter with their average passers. I will leave it at that and look forward to seeing if Olmstead can talk a good 2022 setter out of a commitment to another college or find a diamond in the rough who hasn't gotten an offer. If Bower goes down next season, you have no one to blame for the "no back up" issue other than the coaching staff at BYU. Uh...do you really not understand that the reason why Bower played as a freshman was because Lyndie Haddock-Eppich graduated? If LHE was still on the team in 2019, Bower would not have played. That claim is so ridiculous that I'm not even going to bother responding to the rest of your post. |
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Post by kk1971 on Jan 10, 2022 10:46:47 GMT -5
I'd like to echo Zazu's sentiments about how nice it is that you're writing these breakdowns. I look forward to the next one on Kate Prior. Out of curiosity, are you planning to write about Claire Little, Silina Dimuni and Mia Lee now as well, or will you wait until they are officially signed next year? Just coming across these posts as club has started in earnest here in SoCal. Eden didn't generate much interest from many big D-1's during her fresh-soph years except, BYU. I think it was her knee issue that sidelined her, literally. But she certainly has a D-1 body and can hit a pretty heavy ball, she struggles to play defense and s/r is a major liability. People can blame her time off or whatever, but saying that she can play 6 rotations at a high level is wishful thinking at this point. Maybe she gets there in the future, but she was targeted the entire Durango Classic despite beating an Assumption team (which got beat by multiple teams). Mountainview (Utah) beat her Skyview team and MV appears to have played for the state championship in 5A (Utah). That same MV team has Mia Lee, the BYU recruit. BYU will have a log jam at OH with 6-7 girls competing for 1 spot in 2022. Bower, IMO doesn't have the odds in her favor unless Olmstead just promotes based on last name (which I doubt). The one issue that some on this board say is a positive for Bower is her jumping. I have no idea where that information came from. She is a medium jumper at best and she struggles to block. The Hive Club 16 team just destroyed the Idaho Crush 18 team that Eden was on. She had to block the Harvey girls, Mendelson and contain the back row hitting ability of the Hive team. It didn't go well, but the Idaho Crush team had mostly 17 aged girls and Eden's age forced them to play up. Not a good result for them in any qualifying tourney. They never beat the Hive team or any of the Club V 17 teams out of UTah, the whole season. I am not proclaiming Eden as over-rated but I am also realistic that she isn't a starting OH caliber player at BYU this next year or in 2023. Looking for a legit 6 rotation OH for BYU. Until they find 2 of them or another Koerber plus a 6 rotation OH they won't be playing past the sweet 16. Can Callahan or Stowell do it? This is the first film I’ve seen of Eden. Her front row play reminds me a bit of Kayla Lund from Pitt- an absolute hammer and smart with some good angles but not much of a jumper by the looks of it My reply is directed at marnvbc2: Not a big Bower fan, are you? You criticize Eden for inability to play defense, s/r, jump, block, and even forcing her team to play up (?)--did I miss anything? You criticize Whitney for being too short and picked on by "elite" teams, and then you excoriate Olmstead for "letting" Meyer go because she is such a Bower homer. Wow! Did they beat your club team of something? Did BYU not go after your kid? Here is the reality, and you can try to spin this anyway you want: 1. I don't think anyone on this board said that they felt Eden would be a 6 rotation OH anytime soon. She is playing catch up and I think most acknowledge that. But being "picked on" in Durango was still good enough to propel the team to an outstanding finish and Eden to the all tournament team selection. Even you admit she has a D1 frame and hits a heavy ball. I stand by what I wrote--Eden is going to be a great OH at BYU. Time will tell. 2. Whitney is what she is height wise, and she gives you much more than she takes. BYU didn't lose to Pitt or to Purdue because Whitney was too short at the net. Everyone who watches BYU knows that opposing teams will go after her relentlessly. Would it be better for her to be taller? Of course. But her ability to cover ground, to get a decent set on a badly out of system ball, and to will her team to win are why coaches around the country give her All-American honors. Not Heather. 3. Which brings me to Zayna Meyer's departure and Olmstead's "mismanagement" of her. If you look at my posts from last fall, you will see that I openly posed the question of a 6-2, but decided it wasn't a good idea. The better idea, at least in my opinion, was to redshirt Meyer, so that we could years uninterrupted of great setting. Now, you could argue--correctly, as it turns out--that this was a bad plan since she was too good and had to play or else she would leave. But do you really think that in exchange for burning a year of eligibility Meyer would have been content being tossed a few garbage sets in our WCC sweeps (as you suggest) and that would have been enough to keep her around this year when Whitney announces that she is staying for 2 more years? We all would have loved to have Meyer stay around, but the issue was and always will be playing time, and unless you think Meyer should have started over Bower then this is just a transfer waiting to happen. |
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Post by kk1971 on Jan 10, 2022 10:55:03 GMT -5
My reply is directed at marnvbc2:
Not a big Bower fan, are you? You criticize Eden for inability to play defense, s/r, jump, block, and even forcing her team to play up (?)--did I miss anything? You criticize Whitney for being too short and picked on by "elite" teams, and then you excoriate Olmstead for "letting" Meyer go because she is such a Bower homer. Wow! Did they beat your club team of something? Did BYU not go after your kid?
Here is the reality, and you can try to spin this anyway you want:
1. I don't think anyone on this board said that they felt Eden would be a 6 rotation OH anytime soon. She is playing catch up and I think most acknowledge that. But being "picked on" in Durango was still good enough to propel the team to an outstanding finish and Eden to the all tournament team selection. Even you admit she has a D1 frame and hits a heavy ball. I stand by what I wrote--Eden is going to be a great OH at BYU. Time will tell who is right.
2. Whitney is what she is height wise, and she gives you much more than she takes. BYU didn't lose to Pitt or to Purdue because Whitney was too short at the net. Everyone who watches BYU knows that opposing teams will go after her relentlessly. Would it be better for her to be taller? Of course. But her ability to cover ground, to get a decent set on a badly out of system ball, and to will her team to win are why coaches around the country give her All-American honors. Not Heather.
3. Which brings me to Zayna Meyer's departure and Olmstead's "mismanagement" of her. If you look at my posts from last fall, you will see that I openly posed the question of a 6-2, but decided it wasn't a good idea. The better idea, at least in my opinion, was to redshirt Meyer, so that we could years uninterrupted of great setting. Now, you could argue--correctly, as it turns out--that this was a bad plan since she was too good and had to play or else she would leave. But do you really think that in exchange for burning a year of eligibility Meyer would have been content being tossed a few garbage sets in our WCC sweeps (as you suggest) and that would have been enough to keep her around this year when Whitney announces that she is staying for 2 more years? We all would have loved to have Meyer stay around, but the issue was and always will be playing time, and unless you think Meyer should have started over Bower then this is just a transfer waiting to happen.
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Post by mintonetteman on Jan 10, 2022 15:03:28 GMT -5
I don't think Knudsen will do much to help with BYU's passing issues, though her addition probably at least means that Olmstead won't be faced with the prospect of playing either Dayton or Morgan Bower. Knudsen does seem to be a solid server (16 aces, 13 errors), and she averaged 3.28 d/s last season. I would hope that someone from the 2021 or 2022 classes or possibly another transfer will be able to make more of an impact on the passing game. Sadly, I agree with your assessment of Knudsen and the passing game. BYU has had zero success the last 4 years in recruiting passers (exception Allen). Washout after washout and so they went to the transfer portal to nab girls that were already somewhat proven by other coaches. This appears to be working better as a strategy for them but it is a stop gap measure at best that should be used to fill in a hole here and there ..... not staff a back row by itself. It pains me to say this...because Rob is one of my favorite people and was always good to me as a player. But St. Mary's was not a good team--not sure they would beat any college team in Utah (including SUU) My recollection--was that BYU targeted Knudsen. I have been boycotting watching BYU play the bad WCC teams but I made an exception for St. Mary's because of Rob. I can't believe this this the best backrow player we could get in the portal. |
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Post by bbg95 on Jan 10, 2022 15:13:07 GMT -5
Sadly, I agree with your assessment of Knudsen and the passing game. BYU has had zero success the last 4 years in recruiting passers (exception Allen). Washout after washout and so they went to the transfer portal to nab girls that were already somewhat proven by other coaches. This appears to be working better as a strategy for them but it is a stop gap measure at best that should be used to fill in a hole here and there ..... not staff a back row by itself. It pains me to say this...because Rob is one of my favorite people and was always good to me as a player. But St. Mary's was not a good team--not sure they would beat any college team in Utah (including SUU) My recollection--was that BYU targeted Knudsen. I have been boycotting watching BYU play the bad WCC teams but I made an exception for St. Mary's because of Rob. I can't believe this this the best backrow player we could get in the portal. I don't think St. Mary's was that bad. They were 15-12 and 9-9 in conference. Probably the fifth-best team in the WCC, behind BYU, Pepperdine, San Diego and Pacific (after LMU fell apart). I definitely think they would beat SUU and Dixie at the very least. I agree with the rest of your post. |
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Post by mintonetteman on Jan 10, 2022 15:23:40 GMT -5
I think BYU should run a 6-2 so we we can get rid of our 6 six four inch middles running slides and having the top hitting percentages in the country. I for one am just sick of Heather Gneighting running that play. I really hope the readers to this can catch my sarcasm. Regardless of any deficiencies that Bower has in blocking, BYU will never ever run a 6-2 because it forfeits one of its natural historical advantages. Just one of the reason BYU gets great middle blockers, aka Kemavor. Very excited about her BTW. Now if we could just figure out passing this decade. As for the Bower debate--I was very critical of Whitney Bower as a freshman, but she won me over how hard she plays. She was absolutely "emotionally" necessary after we lost Mary Lake. And the last two years I have been a fan, I am convinced that no other setter (other than Gabriel at Texas) was athletic enough to better the balls she had to deal with--the only way to deal with a back row deficiency like we had was to run a smaller athletic setter that kept balls in play--blaming Whitney Bower's blocking for a reason why we couldn't serve receive seems like a stretch.
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Post by mintonetteman on Jan 10, 2022 15:32:22 GMT -5
BBG, okay, St. Mary's is not THAT bad. And, you are probably right about SUU--didn't realize they were 6-22. And, they probably beat Dixie too, although it would be a game. I like where Dixie is going and I really like there Director of Volleyball Ops--former BYU cougar Riley Lyman!!! Can we bring her back?  |
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Zazu
All-American
Singin' once again in the rain, snow, hail, fog, smog, mist, haze, sun, wind, etc.
Posts: 1,536 
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Post by Zazu on Jan 10, 2022 15:45:05 GMT -5
BBG, okay, St. Mary's is not THAT bad. And, you are probably right about SUU--didn't realize they were 6-22. And, they probably beat Dixie too, although it would be a game. I like where Dixie is going and I really like there Director of Volleyball Ops--former BYU cougar Riley Lyman!!! Can we bring her back?  Didn't know that. That's great. She is an example of player they worked very hard to get better and did at BYU. I miss her as a senior almost as much as I miss Danielle Stetler. I would love to have her return to BYU volleyball in some capacity. |
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Post by pelagius on Jan 10, 2022 16:00:40 GMT -5
Didn't know that. That's great. She is an example of player they worked very hard to get better and did at BYU. I miss her as a senior almost as much as I miss Danielle Stetler. I would love to have her return to BYU volleyball in some capacity. I think my favorite Stetler moment is early in the 2018 season at Duke, she came in for a struggling Roni Jones Perry and hit like 0.400. |
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Post by mintonetteman on Jan 10, 2022 16:09:57 GMT -5
Yep, I liked Stetler too. Love seeing our alumn in coaching jobs.
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Zazu
All-American
Singin' once again in the rain, snow, hail, fog, smog, mist, haze, sun, wind, etc.
Posts: 1,536
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Post by Zazu on Jan 10, 2022 16:41:49 GMT -5
Didn't know that. That's great. She is an example of player they worked very hard to get better and did at BYU. I miss her as a senior almost as much as I miss Danielle Stetler. I would love to have her return to BYU volleyball in some capacity. I think my favorite Stetler moment is early in the 2018 season at Duke, she came in for a struggling Roni Jones Perry and hit like 0.400. Oops! I typed Danielle instead of Danelle. |
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Post by smartcookie on Jan 10, 2022 17:26:50 GMT -5
Well the question becomes with Meyer now gone, who will be BYU's back up setter if Bower is unable to play? I think BYU will have more success recruiting a promising freshman than trying to get someone good from the portal because (as mentioned), whoever comes to BYU knows they'll be sitting on the bench behind Bower for a couple of years. A freshman might be fine with this opportunity to learn behind Bower for the first 2 years and then get to run the team herself in her last 2, but a transfer is not going to "blow" their last year of eligibility sitting on the bench.
I also can't help but remember hearing a few years ago that LHE was originally a walk on...what a gift!
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