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Post by slxpress on Aug 28, 2022 8:01:56 GMT -5
Yeah, it's not like this is East Texas or rural Georgia. This is racially diverse Utah. They should know better. They probably knew of someone that knew someone that had met an African American a couple hundred miles away from where they grew up. Has it dawned on you yet that you are part of the problem? You think that what you say about a certain state or region is just what you are complaining about. Amazingly dim. Non BYU student involved so delete and start a more thoughtful thread. I do not understand what you mean with this response. What I will say is if a community is not diverse and doesn't have an opportunity to interact with a number of people from different cultures, it can be expected their reaction when interacting with people who don't look like them will be different from someone who has already had that experience. But no, this comment will not be deleted, and the last thing this incident needs is another thread started. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Aug 28, 2022 9:54:02 GMT -5
Dude: you are not helping your institution's reputation, brand, or moral foundations as you bash Duke. P.S. You are bringing up tangents/parameters that are solely yours; if you aren't part of a solution.... Dude: the admin at Duke will allow a complete investigation of the facts before punishment is meted out. Without facts you or anyone else isn't part of a solution that will have lasting impact. If you don't understand what happened at Duke and to their athletes by not awaiting a factual investigative conclusion you need to read up. This situation had zero to do with athletes, coaches or attendees of the match except the one guy who shouldn't have been in the arena. Unless you have someway to identify a moron who would say thinks like has been reported ..... these things will happen every once in awhile. Swift punishment and a close look at what can be done differently is what needs to be done. It appears that the steps taken are heading in that direction pretty quickly. I’m obviously making a general statement, not one about BYU specifically. It’s about shifting the context in which universities and programs have to make decisions. If it was one person, and that person has been banned, good. If there are repeated instances, then a university should show how it’s managing the more systematic issue, or they face sanctions. It should be a graded response from the top that universities and programs should know and understand. Other countries and other sporting organizations do this. To the extent the NCAA does not, it indicates their lack of commitment to the issue. We do not have to and we should not tolerate this kind of behavior anymore. |
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BYU 2022
Aug 28, 2022 9:56:04 GMT -5
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Post by badgerbreath on Aug 28, 2022 9:56:04 GMT -5
Dude: the admin at Duke will allow a complete investigation of the facts before punishment is meted out. Without facts you or anyone else isn't part of a solution that will have lasting impact. If you don't understand what happened at Duke and to their athletes by not awaiting a factual investigative conclusion you need to read up. This situation had zero to do with athletes, coaches or attendees of the match except the one guy who shouldn't have been in the arena. Unless you have someway to identify a moron who would say thinks like has been reported ..... these things will happen every once in awhile. Swift punishment and a close look at what can be done differently is what needs to be done. It appears that the steps taken are heading in that direction pretty quickly. I’m obviously making a general statement, not one about BYU specifically. It’s about shifting the context in which universities and programs have to make decisions. If it was one person, and that person has been banned, good. If there are repeated instances, then a university should show how it’s managing the more systematic issue, or they face sanctions. It should be a graded response from the top that universities and programs should know and understand. Other countries and other sporting organizations do this. To the extent the NCAA does not, it indicates their lack of commitment to the issue. We do not have to and we should not tolerate this kind of behavior anymore. But this is the wrong thread for this now. So, signing out. |
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BYU 2022
Aug 28, 2022 14:55:33 GMT -5
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Post by Mocha on Aug 28, 2022 14:55:33 GMT -5
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Post by alpo on Aug 28, 2022 17:49:59 GMT -5
Club V coach (movb). No swings at Heather except in the recruiting dept of passers and some setters. Not deserved? Avid critic of M Bowers taking up a roster spot because of the need to find elite passers not players who can't pass at an average level. E Bower hitting is a plus but her ability to play 6 rotations isn't and we will see how she does the rest of the year. She played well this weekend. One thing I will add, all the OH's not named Livingston and E Bower ought to go find another team to play on because they will never see the court at BYU. How is that for a hot take? That frees up 5 or 6 roster spots of L/DS's!! W Bower is a good setter, but a liability on the front row blocking and with the suspect passers on the BYU roster, it hurts the team. That is it in a nut shell. I haven't gossiped about any V team, just pointed out that the coaching was very unusual and cost them a national championship. I have never put a plug in for the V -2 team. In fact I said that they shouldn't have been at open nationals because they weren't good enough. So, name a plug, any plug I put in for that V -2 team? Go ahead, we are waiting. Your ego might be hurt from a coaching perspective but hey, that shouldn't hold you back. But since you coach there you are allowed to be touchy about what I have said. marnvbc2 I'm curious to get your hot take specifically on the highly regarded recruit Claire Little coming on board. You have indicated that you think the Bowers seem to receive favoritism with the head coach. Now that E Bower seems to be exceeding your prior predictions you are saying that all other OH should transfer. What do you think will happen with Claire Little? |
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Post by alpo on Aug 28, 2022 18:00:42 GMT -5
I'm very curious about several things: 1) At this point it seems Eden Bower has beaten the other outside hitters for her position. But I have a hard time watching a outside hitter with average hops beating out the others. Does someone have inside info on this. It seems to me that Callahan and Stowell were very talented gets...I wish I knew how they are being handled...but, that note will go unanswered by us on the sidelines. Please let's not go through a Zanya Meyer situation 2) I also agree that it seems so odd having a Bower in the back row who doesn't deserve her place...again, I wish I knew the mind of Heather on this? 3) I would think that if BYU stays in the top ten for the rest of the year that they can go after a solid libero or DS position player anywhere in the country...who does their recruiting?
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Post by alpo on Aug 28, 2022 18:08:49 GMT -5
Has it dawned on you yet that you are part of the problem? You think that what you say about a certain state or region is just what you are complaining about. Amazingly dim. Non BYU student involved so delete and start a more thoughtful thread. I do not understand what you mean with this response. What I will say is if a community is not diverse and doesn't have an opportunity to interact with a number of people from different cultures, it can be expected their reaction when interacting with people who don't look like them will be different from someone who has already had that experience. But no, this comment will not be deleted, and the last thing this incident needs is another thread started. |
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Post by alpo on Aug 28, 2022 18:13:03 GMT -5
I agree with marnvbc2...Sixpress seems to feel he/she knows what goes on at a BYU athletic event...me thinks sixpress has never been to an athletic event to compare the craziness of BYU to the expletives I have experienced at other universities. There is no excuse for racism in any community or event and it is being dealt with. Sixpress should stop fanning the flames of emotional racism, you have no idea the true events or facts
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 18:30:30 GMT -5
👏🏾👏🏾 It has gotten really bad over the last 4 to 5 yrs. It's gone the way it was always going to go. People talk about racism like it's an evil that needs to be wiped from the face of the earth, when actually it's simply a tribal reaction deeply embedded in us from before we were a bipedal species, and then strengthened and accentuated through the forces of evolution, in particular the watershed evolution of going from homo erectus to homo sapiens. Racism will never be eliminated. Ever. The only way to get rid of racism is to get rid of races. Let's all intermarry until there's no significant cultural or racial differences between us to speak of. And even then we'll find outliers, both physical and otherwise, to separate ourselves into various tribes that compete for limited resources and positions at the top of the hierarchy - which is a primordial value system even more deeply embedded than tribalism. The natural reaction when a race is demonized is not for that race to bend the knee and say, "You're right. We hand over all of our historical power, wealth, and influence. We're evil. We admit it. You would do such a better job." The natural reaction is for members of that race to use that demonization as a call to arms. Which is what is happening. And it's all going to get a whole lot worse. On both sides. Instead of demonization and suppression, we need a lot more honesty, a lot more understanding different perspectives, and a lot more work towards finding shared values that go beyond race, and find common enemies that can bond us as a tribe without resorting to race. I don't see any of that happening. What I see is increased polarization, increased demonization, an increased reliance on our respective echo chambers, and increased stress on the apocalyptic nature of the other side. All of that simply leads to massacres, eventually. Which is exactly where we're headed. Not today. And not tomorrow. But eventually one side or the other is going to gather enough power to feel like they can put an end to the other side, and they have every right to exercise that power. That's how this stuff goes. And then if we survive that as a species, the cycle will start all over again. I guess maybe eventually we get to the point where we can manipulate our gene code on fundamental levels to "snip out" undesirable traits, but that will have all kinds of unforeseen consequences as well, and is way scarier to me than the traits being present in the first place. That is a really interesting take on the current situation and as I digest it, a lot of what you wrote rings true. We have to break the cycle and it will never be broken with name calling people as racists who aren't and just have different views that you do. |
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BYU 2022
Aug 28, 2022 18:32:47 GMT -5
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Post by slxpress on Aug 28, 2022 18:32:47 GMT -5
I agree with marnvbc2...Sixpress seems to feel he/she knows what goes on at a BYU athletic event...me thinks sixpress has never been to an athletic event to compare the craziness of BYU to the expletives I have experienced at other universities. There is no excuse for racism in any community or event and it is being dealt with. Sixpress should stop fanning the flames of emotional racism, you have no idea the true events or facts Number one, racism will never be “dealt with.” It can only at best be suppressed and socialized as behavior outside the norm. That is not actually possible in a homogenous grouping. It’s onky possible when different cultures and races interact on a consistent basis to deal with inherent conflicts. Two, the chief argument about the events are less about what BYU has done after the event occurred and the public backlash occurred - although that too has been found wanting in certain circles. I don’t have a strong opinion there. It’s about what transpired during the match. No one from the student section held the perpetrator responsible for his actions while it was going on. Someone sat next to him. Someone sat behind him. Someone sat in front of him. Someone sat two seats over. Plenty of people knew EXACTLY who was doing it. Why did no one do anything about it? I’m not surprised. It’s a pretty common group dynamic. It would have been more unusual in any number of ways if someone did identify him and get him tossed out then and there. But why do you think it didn’t occur? Why do you think nothing was done during the match? Why do you think it took a viral post from someone in another state to produce a reaction by the BYU administration? I’m interested to hear your thoughts. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 19:00:00 GMT -5
Club V coach (movb). No swings at Heather except in the recruiting dept of passers and some setters. Not deserved? Avid critic of M Bowers taking up a roster spot because of the need to find elite passers not players who can't pass at an average level. E Bower hitting is a plus but her ability to play 6 rotations isn't and we will see how she does the rest of the year. She played well this weekend. One thing I will add, all the OH's not named Livingston and E Bower ought to go find another team to play on because they will never see the court at BYU. How is that for a hot take? That frees up 5 or 6 roster spots of L/DS's!! W Bower is a good setter, but a liability on the front row blocking and with the suspect passers on the BYU roster, it hurts the team. That is it in a nut shell. I haven't gossiped about any V team, just pointed out that the coaching was very unusual and cost them a national championship. I have never put a plug in for the V -2 team. In fact I said that they shouldn't have been at open nationals because they weren't good enough. So, name a plug, any plug I put in for that V -2 team? Go ahead, we are waiting. Your ego might be hurt from a coaching perspective but hey, that shouldn't hold you back. But since you coach there you are allowed to be touchy about what I have said. marnvbc2 I'm curious to get your hot take specifically on the highly regarded recruit Claire Little coming on board. You have indicated that you think the Bowers seem to receive favoritism with the head coach. Now that E Bower seems to be exceeding your prior predictions you are saying that all other OH should transfer. What do you think will happen with Claire Little? E Bower had a big night at the WSU match. Frankly, I thought BYU would win but with a much closer match. E Bower played very well and what surprised me is her energy and enthusiasm. She obviously took the starting job away from the longer tenured BYU OH's who have been in the program. They won't be getting a shot at the OH (2) unless there is an injury. They would be better in greener pastures. E Bower deserves a lot of credit for her play. With that said, I don't believe that she will ever be a 6 rotation player at BYU. She has some quickness limitations on defense but she has brought more game (a lot earlier than I thought she would) right off the bat. Her addition could be a game changer for this BYU team. I am not going to dwell on the age of Bower but she is older than most if not all of the other BYU OH's who are ahead of her by a year in college. So, physically, she can and certainly has competed well. She has more muscle than any OH at BYU. I am not going to comment on Claire Little. She has a great arm and good hops but I am not going to list any short comings. She is a great kid and a perfect BYU fit. |
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Post by alpo on Aug 28, 2022 19:00:28 GMT -5
Sixpress, why are you on this post other than to fan flames...this is for athletic events...not to make you feel better with your arguments. First of all you state the fact that someone from another state has heard from her daughter...we saw the post...but, she doesn't know all the circumstances of what is happening on site. Do you really think that a school that abhors expletives in any way would just sit around and let this racist idiot vent racist expletives...do you not think for a minute that individuals reported this person to staff. You have put yourself as judge and jury and frankly at the head of the emotional mob lighting the torches...before the true evidence is in...so sad
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 19:25:23 GMT -5
I'm very curious about several things: 1) At this point it seems Eden Bower has beaten the other outside hitters for her position. But I have a hard time watching a outside hitter with average hops beating out the others. Does someone have inside info on this. It seems to me that Callahan and Stowell were very talented gets...I wish I knew how they are being handled...but, that note will go unanswered by us on the sidelines. Please let's not go through a Zanya Meyer situation 2) I also agree that it seems so odd having a Bower in the back row who doesn't deserve her place...again, I wish I knew the mind of Heather on this? 3) I would think that if BYU stays in the top ten for the rest of the year that they can go after a solid libero or DS position player anywhere in the country...who does their recruiting? Alpo - be very careful on this thread about pointing out any issue that isn't consistent with an elite level D-1 BYU women's vb program. It certainly looks like E Bower has won the spot. I would like to see Callahan and Stowell play as well. You really can't get a handle on a players upside until they are put under pressure in a match. But, the lack of playing time for anyone who Heather deems as a non-starter is legendary. She simply won't play second or third string players. Why? I have a guess but I don't know if I am correct. But, yes, I think it would be healthy for the program to show the top 2 or 3 players and let the staff, other players, the actual player, and the fans see for themselves what transpires. BYU will have matches they will easily win ..... who cares if they go 4 sets or not. They need to develop a deeper bench and give the girls a chance to showcase their abilities (or not). E Bower has a big arm swing and she takes a shorter approach. W Bower knows this and the balls are faster to E Bower than any other OH. Smart .... but these 2 girls have practiced this for years. I want to see Pitt and other big time programs compete with BYU. It will give us more insight into what this team has. Can E Bower block well against a very athletic Opp? We will see as the season moves on. Knudsen played well but she wasn't really game planned for so I am awaiting the scouting to take place. E Bower will be tested on D also. We shall see. Heather is a very good coach, despite what other believe I think about her. When she gets a girl into her program she almost always gets the right girls on the court. Her weakness is evaluating talent while recruiting. M Bower is not a D-1 athlete. She shouldn't be on the team. Abby shouldn't be on the team either. After this season is over there should be a big turnover of players. BYU is good enough to get top L's and DS's but the issue here isn't that they can't get a couple, it is that they can't recognize really elite level players when they see them. Many times they will need to look at positions other than L or DS to find exceptional talent or upside as a backrow player and that whole line of thought escapes BYU completely. |
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Post by movb on Aug 28, 2022 20:40:27 GMT -5
marnvbc2 I'm curious to get your hot take specifically on the highly regarded recruit Claire Little coming on board. You have indicated that you think the Bowers seem to receive favoritism with the head coach. Now that E Bower seems to be exceeding your prior predictions you are saying that all other OH should transfer. What do you think will happen with Claire Little? E Bower had a big night at the WSU match. Frankly, I thought BYU would win but with a much closer match. E Bower played very well and what surprised me is her energy and enthusiasm. She obviously took the starting job away from the longer tenured BYU OH's who have been in the program. They won't be getting a shot at the OH (2) unless there is an injury. They would be better in greener pastures. E Bower deserves a lot of credit for her play. With that said, I don't believe that she will ever be a 6 rotation player at BYU. She has some quickness limitations on defense but she has brought more game (a lot earlier than I thought she would) right off the bat. Her addition could be a game changer for this BYU team. I am not going to dwell on the age of Bower but she is older than most if not all of the other BYU OH's who are ahead of her by a year in college. So, physically, she can and certainly has competed well. She has more muscle than any OH at BYU. I am not going to comment on Claire Little. She has a great arm and good hops but I am not going to list any short comings. She is a great kid and a perfect BYU fit. I agree with marnvbc2, E Bower's performance was impressive. Way better than many expected. Her passing has come a long way since I last saw her at the club scene. She brings an incredibly good vibe to the court. I can see Little becoming a key 6 rotation contributor at BYU. Little passes well, hits crazy hard, and is quick on the back row. The future is bright for this young lady! |
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BYU 2022
Aug 28, 2022 21:20:41 GMT -5
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Post by bkedane on Aug 28, 2022 21:20:41 GMT -5
Do the players who don't start get chances to earn time by performing well in practice? Yes.
The idea that coaches owe it to fans and want-to-be-coaches to give playing time to non-starters so that fans can evaluate different lineup options seems odd to me.
If you want to see other lineup options ask to attend practice. Maybe you would be allowed to do so.
Some teams have close competition for starting roles. Coaches of those teams have good reason to keep testing different lineups in practice and in matches. My understanding is that BYU does not have any close competition for starting positions except perhaps at libero and DS. Do you have different information?
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