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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 0:30:02 GMT -5
The person wasn't a student at BYU. Just wanted to repeat that, in case we keep going down a rabbit hole regarding BYU's unique student body and their overarching guiding principles as an institution of higher education. My point is that the guiding principles of an institution of higher education should be called into question when something like this is allowed to persist throughout a match. If your guiding principles don't lead your students to doing something or saying something, well then... not exactly sure what they're for. Fin. How do you know there wasn't something done about this during the match? Do you know when the name calling started (3rd set?) and it appears from event organizers that at least 4 BYU students were reporting to the administrators during the 3rd set that a non-BYU student was going crazy and verbally attacking players on the court. He was also threatening students in the section who were telling him to shut up. At some point, reasonableness needs to supplant yelling "fire" in a crowded room. Let the facts come out, changes be made and apologies be given. You lose all credibility when you try to tank an entire institution of higher learning when you make statements that don't appear to be accurate with verbal taunts persisting throughout a match. Interviews are still taking place by law enforcement and BYU admin. The correct actions will be taken to address the issue and I would say that if this incident had happened at any of the other schools involved in this tourney. Duke has had its share of embarrassing issues over the last decade and they have learned that the investigation and facts need to come out before charging ahead and administering punishment or else the risk of embarrassment is high. Let BYU do its deal and put in better reporting mechanisms and make needed improvements. 5,500 people in the stands and 1 guy brings the focus off of the elite athletes, coaches and teams by being really dumb and he takes the focus off of those who deserved it yesterday. |
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Post by badgerbreath on Aug 28, 2022 0:34:23 GMT -5
I want to see the NCAA and maybe AVCA step in in some fashion to prevent such things from happening. Programs need to be punished in some way if such behavior persists. That would shift the calculation for universities and programs away from fear of stirring the pot and toward doing something about such problems proactively. It would motivate student bodies as well, and perhaps bystanders. It's terrible that a student athlete has to summon a police officer for protection in a match, particularly on account of fear of racial violence. You can't simply ignore the history behind that threat in this country and it should have no part in the sport. I have spoken to a rep in the athletic dept and the statement that a police officer was summoned to protect a player in the match is just false. There seems to a lot more to the story than what this blog is bringing up. There will be serious consequences for any wrong-doer but there is No way that the NCAA or the AVCA can prevent things from happening before they actually happen. People have freedom to speak in this country but they also have to face the consequences of what they say .... usually. Freedom of speech only has to do with restrictions imposed by government. The NCAA and AVCA have every right, as a private organizations that serve diverse student bodies, to restrict who participates in tournaments, etc. It only takes the will to do so. Programs can then decide to comply or live with the consequences of not doing so. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 0:55:38 GMT -5
I have spoken to a rep in the athletic dept and the statement that a police officer was summoned to protect a player in the match is just false. There seems to a lot more to the story than what this blog is bringing up. There will be serious consequences for any wrong-doer but there is No way that the NCAA or the AVCA can prevent things from happening before they actually happen. People have freedom to speak in this country but they also have to face the consequences of what they say .... usually. So, the godmother is lying about the policeman? I don't know what the grandmother actually said and you don't either. We don't know the timing or anything substantial about where the grandmother was located and we don't know which Duke players or staff heard anything. Was the grandma in Provo or even west of the Mississippi? We don't know who the BYU students were who were telling the guy to shut up and were being threatened by him. We don't know when the first of 4 students spoke with BYU AD reps. By the changes made in the arena today, we know that BYU takes its responsibility to protect each student, athlete, or fan on their campus seriously. That is a good thing. Punishment will take place when a full investigation is completed. Changes will be made, I am told. No one but the 1 guy was supposedly involved so don't throw everyone under the bus because a skunk entered the arena. If a criminal offense took place the offender will be charged. But only he will be charged, not everyone attending the match or every student attending BYU. Why would you even consider punishing the BYU vb team by canceling their season (and all the teams who will be playing them) who had nothing to do with this guy? No common sense. Maybe you should ask Duke what their experience was when a good portion of their D-1 Lacrosse team was hung out to dry and had their season canceled and lives ruined by simply punishing people before the facts could be vetted. Millions of dollars lost and a huge black eye for the school. Their administrators should know how important acting in a reasonable, common sense manner should be in a situation like this. I am surprised that they asked that their Rider match be moved out of the SFH because BYU police and any security would have been on site to give peace of mind to all participants. But, I am not judging them, I just think it would have sent a stronger message that they wouldn't be intimidated by the kind of behavior that went on. Stand up to it and 5,500 people in the arena would be against the 1 dummy. |
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Post by Riviera Minestrone on Aug 28, 2022 1:01:31 GMT -5
So, the godmother is lying about the policeman? I don't know what the grandmother actually said and you don't either. We don't know the timing or anything substantial about where the grandmother was located and we don't know which Duke players or staff heard anything. Was the grandma in Provo or even west of the Mississippi? We don't know who the BYU students were who were telling the guy to shut up and were being threatened by him. We don't know when the first of 4 students spoke with BYU AD reps. By the changes made in the arena today, we know that BYU takes its responsibility to protect each student, athlete, or fan on their campus seriously. That is a good thing. Punishment will take place when a full investigation is completed. Changes will be made, I am told. No one but the 1 guy was supposedly involved so don't throw everyone under the bus because a skunk entered the arena. If a criminal offense took place the offender will be charged. But only he will be charged, not everyone attending the match or every student attending BYU. Why would you even consider punishing the BYU vb team by canceling their season (and all the teams who will be playing them) who had nothing to do with this guy? No common sense. Maybe you should ask Duke what their experience was when a good portion of their D-1 Lacrosse team was hung out to dry and had their season canceled and lives ruined by simply punishing people before the facts could be vetted. Millions of dollars lost and a huge black eye for the school. Their administrators should know how important acting in a reasonable, common sense manner should be in a situation like this. I am surprised that they asked that their Rider match be moved out of the SFH because BYU police and any security would have been on site to give peace of mind to all participants. But, I am not judging them, I just think it would have sent a stronger message that they wouldn't be intimidated by the kind of behavior that went on. Stand up to it and 5,500 people in the arena would be against the 1 dummy. Dude, you are not helping your institution's reputation, brand, or moral foundations as you bash Duke. P.S. You're ranting about tangents/parameters that are solely yours; if you aren't part of a solution... |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 1:03:16 GMT -5
I have spoken to a rep in the athletic dept and the statement that a police officer was summoned to protect a player in the match is just false. There seems to a lot more to the story than what this blog is bringing up. There will be serious consequences for any wrong-doer but there is No way that the NCAA or the AVCA can prevent things from happening before they actually happen. People have freedom to speak in this country but they also have to face the consequences of what they say .... usually. Freedom of speech only has to do with restrictions imposed by government. The NCAA and AVCA have every right, as a private organizations that serve diverse student bodies, to restrict who participates in tournaments, etc. It only takes the will to do so. Programs can then decide to comply or live with the consequences of not doing so. You are walking a line that the NCAA nor AVCA will not go down. They have to act legally or they will lose in court if sued by a member organization. This guy wasn't a participant, don't you get that? These organizations won't restrict any person or team or school who acted reasonably in the moment and had a bad actor infiltrate an arena and start yelling racial slurs threatening a play and other fans around him who told him to quit speaking. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 1:11:57 GMT -5
I don't know what the grandmother actually said and you don't either. We don't know the timing or anything substantial about where the grandmother was located and we don't know which Duke players or staff heard anything. Was the grandma in Provo or even west of the Mississippi? We don't know who the BYU students were who were telling the guy to shut up and were being threatened by him. We don't know when the first of 4 students spoke with BYU AD reps. By the changes made in the arena today, we know that BYU takes its responsibility to protect each student, athlete, or fan on their campus seriously. That is a good thing. Punishment will take place when a full investigation is completed. Changes will be made, I am told. No one but the 1 guy was supposedly involved so don't throw everyone under the bus because a skunk entered the arena. If a criminal offense took place the offender will be charged. But only he will be charged, not everyone attending the match or every student attending BYU. Why would you even consider punishing the BYU vb team by canceling their season (and all the teams who will be playing them) who had nothing to do with this guy? No common sense. Maybe you should ask Duke what their experience was when a good portion of their D-1 Lacrosse team was hung out to dry and had their season canceled and lives ruined by simply punishing people before the facts could be vetted. Millions of dollars lost and a huge black eye for the school. Their administrators should know how important acting in a reasonable, common sense manner should be in a situation like this. I am surprised that they asked that their Rider match be moved out of the SFH because BYU police and any security would have been on site to give peace of mind to all participants. But, I am not judging them, I just think it would have sent a stronger message that they wouldn't be intimidated by the kind of behavior that went on. Stand up to it and 5,500 people in the arena would be against the 1 dummy. Dude: you are not helping your institution's reputation, brand, or moral foundations as you bash Duke. P.S. You are bringing up tangents/parameters that are solely yours; if you aren't part of a solution.... Dude: the admin at Duke will allow a complete investigation of the facts before punishment is meted out. Without facts you or anyone else isn't part of a solution that will have lasting impact. If you don't understand what happened at Duke and to their athletes by not awaiting a factual investigative conclusion you need to read up. This situation had zero to do with athletes, coaches or attendees of the match except the one guy who shouldn't have been in the arena. Unless you have someway to identify a moron who would say thinks like has been reported ..... these things will happen every once in awhile. Swift punishment and a close look at what can be done differently is what needs to be done. It appears that the steps taken are heading in that direction pretty quickly. |
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Post by bucky415 on Aug 28, 2022 1:14:00 GMT -5
I don't know what the grandmother actually said and you don't either. We don't know the timing or anything substantial about where the grandmother was located and we don't know which Duke players or staff heard anything. Was the grandma in Provo or even west of the Mississippi? We don't know who the BYU students were who were telling the guy to shut up and were being threatened by him. We don't know when the first of 4 students spoke with BYU AD reps. By the changes made in the arena today, we know that BYU takes its responsibility to protect each student, athlete, or fan on their campus seriously. That is a good thing. Punishment will take place when a full investigation is completed. Changes will be made, I am told. No one but the 1 guy was supposedly involved so don't throw everyone under the bus because a skunk entered the arena. If a criminal offense took place the offender will be charged. But only he will be charged, not everyone attending the match or every student attending BYU. Why would you even consider punishing the BYU vb team by canceling their season (and all the teams who will be playing them) who had nothing to do with this guy? No common sense. Maybe you should ask Duke what their experience was when a good portion of their D-1 Lacrosse team was hung out to dry and had their season canceled and lives ruined by simply punishing people before the facts could be vetted. Millions of dollars lost and a huge black eye for the school. Their administrators should know how important acting in a reasonable, common sense manner should be in a situation like this. I am surprised that they asked that their Rider match be moved out of the SFH because BYU police and any security would have been on site to give peace of mind to all participants. But, I am not judging them, I just think it would have sent a stronger message that they wouldn't be intimidated by the kind of behavior that went on. Stand up to it and 5,500 people in the arena would be against the 1 dummy. Dude: you are not helping your institution's reputation, brand, or moral foundations as you bash Duke. P.S. You are bringing up tangents/parameters that are solely yours; if you aren't part of a solution.... Yes, please do not talk about Duke. That is irrelevant to this. The 4 students talking with BYU reps is a good thing. I hope it was soon, and I hope the BYU reps acted quickly! I do think BYU is taking this seriously. |
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Post by Riviera Minestrone on Aug 28, 2022 1:18:07 GMT -5
Dude: you are not helping your institution's reputation, brand, or moral foundations as you bash Duke. P.S. You are bringing up tangents/parameters that are solely yours; if you aren't part of a solution.... Yes, please do not talk about Duke. That is irrelevant to this. The 4 students talking with BYU reps is a good thing. I hope it was soon, and I hope the BYU reps acted quickly! I do think BYU is taking this seriously. This dude - er - poster is very well-known in the BYU VB community for attenuated, meandering rants. |
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Post by bucky415 on Aug 28, 2022 1:22:59 GMT -5
Yes, please do not talk about Duke. That is irrelevant to this. The 4 students talking with BYU reps is a good thing. I hope it was soon, and I hope the BYU reps acted quickly! I do think BYU is taking this seriously. This dude - err - poster is very well-known in the BYU VB community for ever-long, meandering rants. That said, I really, really hope it was the case that the racist comments were from one person, and that multiple BYU students reported that person to BYU officials, who then got that person out of the arena and banned! |
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Post by vbjustice on Aug 28, 2022 1:23:34 GMT -5
I want to see the NCAA and maybe AVCA step in in some fashion to prevent such things from happening. Programs need to be punished in some way if such behavior persists. That would shift the calculation for universities and programs away from fear of stirring the pot and toward doing something about such problems proactively. It would motivate student bodies as well, and perhaps bystanders. It's terrible that a student athlete has to summon a police officer for protection in a match, particularly on account of fear of racial violence. You can't simply ignore the history behind that threat in this country and it should have no part in the sport. I have spoken to a rep in the athletic dept and the statement that a police officer was summoned to protect a player in the match is just false. There seems to a lot more to the story than what this blog is bringing up. There will be serious consequences for any wrong-doer but there is No way that the NCAA or the AVCA can prevent things from happening before they actually happen. People have freedom to speak in this country but they also have to face the consequences of what they say .... usually. a quote from her God Mother |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 1:35:55 GMT -5
I don't get why NO ONE did anything, even if just calling out the student who did it. The player could have said something to him, but on the other hand I'd imagine she wouldn't want to engage him (which is what he probably wanted) and was probably afraid. No fellow students, teammates or players from the opposing side, coaches/assistant coaches, referees, parents, etc. I get it's a very tense situation and it's not "easy," but still. Sometimes I think people seize up when confronted with real life behavior in real time because they're used to the barrier that dealing with people via technology provides. Flip side, plenty of people still deal with other people in real life and real time. Simple question for you: How do you come to the conclusion that no one did anything to try to get the guy to stop and be quiet? It looks like a lot of students next to him were yelling at him to stop speaking and some of them who could get out of their seats went looking for authority figures to report the issue. So, be careful in your conclusions. They just might not be the correct conclusions. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 1:51:37 GMT -5
I have spoken to a rep in the athletic dept and the statement that a police officer was summoned to protect a player in the match is just false. There seems to a lot more to the story than what this blog is bringing up. There will be serious consequences for any wrong-doer but there is No way that the NCAA or the AVCA can prevent things from happening before they actually happen. People have freedom to speak in this country but they also have to face the consequences of what they say .... usually. a quote from her God Mother Ms Pamplin should know better than the average person that her accusations need to be vetted. She is a criminal defense attorney and ex-police officer. She was not in attendance and has no first hand knowledge of what actually happened. Let the investigation run its course because it is the right thing to do and she knows it. She would never tolerate anyone throwing out statements of "fact" that weren't witnessed first hand by a witness. She knows this and she just might have a little experience using the media to get her point across in Ft Worth elections. In private practice now so she knows the protocol of what works and what doesn't. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 2:01:04 GMT -5
If a college student is *smart* enough to get into BYU, they are smart enough to know that harassing a visiting player with racial epithets and threatening her with physical violence is NOT tolerated. Being kicked out of schools seems like a very appropriate response. Yeah, it's not like this is East Texas or rural Georgia. This is racially diverse Utah. They should know better. They probably knew of someone that knew someone that had met an African American a couple hundred miles away from where they grew up. Has it dawned on you yet that you are part of the problem? You think that what you say about a certain state or region is just what you are complaining about. Amazingly dim. Non BYU student involved so delete and start a more thoughtful thread. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 2:33:37 GMT -5
Funny, I have said that the lack of athletic ability on the backrow is hurting BYU and if you are living under a rock (which you might be), you might not know that. Or you can close your eyes while watching them so you don't have to see it. I Don't have any kids in Utah nor have they ever played in a Utah club. My purpose is to "mingle nuggets of truth with a whole bunch of nonsense" is a great statement especially if you give us all the nonsense I have used to establish credibility. That doesn't even make sense. Please also explain how I have brought attention to the mystery daughter and her "team" .... which team? Miller isn't a great athlete, nor is any Club V L off either of their top 17 teams (which would include my mysterious daughter that only you know about) and because some were wanting me to name a few players who could play backrow for BYU, I did name a couple. Almost immediately 2 of them (including the mysterious "daughter") were invited onto D-1 rosters. I simply stayed in Utah to pick a couple of players that BYU could easily see without traveling AND the girls would be upgrades to their recruiting class. Miller will not be a big time answer to the L problem at the Y. I also said that V has a girl who could be an elite L on their 16 team. You must have missed that since you are preoccupied with my unnamed "nonsense" and worrying bout top or 2nd teams from clubs rather than BYU's backrow. I don't care who V thinks should be on their top, 2nd or 3rd teams. Frankly, they did a good job qualifying multiple teams in the open division, but if they would have put the top talent all on one team, they would have won a national championship with a coach who really wanted to. But politics are difficult to avoid particularly when you put together teams based in large part on potentially getting players scholly's rather than winning matches in open divisions. I probably should direct my comments about L's and V to the L who was hurt at nationals. She is the most athletic L in the V 17's but I have heard that she is a school problem. She also flops a lot but as far as outright skill she is better than all the 17 L's, including my mystery daughter. BYU needs to go get the 16 DS/OH. She will blossom with good coaching.
There are some opportunities for improvement on BYU’s backrow. I believe many on this forum know that. See— I’m not living under a rock; I do agree with you on “some nuggets of truth”. However, the season is just getting started and it’s only fair to give the newcomers a chance to prove their value. One doesn’t have to be a data scientist to look at your past posts and see some trends: 1. You love to take swings at Heather. 2. You're an avid critic of the Bowers. 3. You like to gossip way too much about V’s top 17's team and put in plugs for the 17s - 2nd team. I get it - you’re entitled to your opinions. But, if you don’t want people in this forum to suspect you are a jaded parent, whose kid BYU didn’t go after, then it might serve you well to start a Club V thread somewhere else because many of us here find your “suspected” Club V agenda quite boring. Now, let's get this forum back to what it was meant to be. Go Cougs! Club V coach (movb). No swings at Heather except in the recruiting dept of passers and some setters. Not deserved? Avid critic of M Bowers taking up a roster spot because of the need to find elite passers not players who can't pass at an average level. E Bower hitting is a plus but her ability to play 6 rotations isn't and we will see how she does the rest of the year. She played well this weekend. One thing I will add, all the OH's not named Livingston and E Bower ought to go find another team to play on because they will never see the court at BYU. How is that for a hot take? That frees up 5 or 6 roster spots of L/DS's!! W Bower is a good setter, but a liability on the front row blocking and with the suspect passers on the BYU roster, it hurts the team. That is it in a nut shell. I haven't gossiped about any V team, just pointed out that the coaching was very unusual and cost them a national championship. I have never put a plug in for the V -2 team. In fact I said that they shouldn't have been at open nationals because they weren't good enough. So, name a plug, any plug I put in for that V -2 team? Go ahead, we are waiting. Your ego might be hurt from a coaching perspective but hey, that shouldn't hold you back. But since you coach there you are allowed to be touchy about what I have said. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Aug 28, 2022 2:45:14 GMT -5
Funny, I have said that the lack of athletic ability on the backrow is hurting BYU and if you are living under a rock (which you might be), you might not know that. Or you can close your eyes while watching them so you don't have to see it. I Don't have any kids in Utah nor have they ever played in a Utah club. My purpose is to "mingle nuggets of truth with a whole bunch of nonsense" is a great statement especially if you give us all the nonsense I have used to establish credibility. That doesn't even make sense. Please also explain how I have brought attention to the mystery daughter and her "team" .... which team? Miller isn't a great athlete, nor is any Club V L off either of their top 17 teams (which would include my mysterious daughter that only you know about) and because some were wanting me to name a few players who could play backrow for BYU, I did name a couple. Almost immediately 2 of them (including the mysterious "daughter") were invited onto D-1 rosters. I simply stayed in Utah to pick a couple of players that BYU could easily see without traveling AND the girls would be upgrades to their recruiting class. Miller will not be a big time answer to the L problem at the Y. I also said that V has a girl who could be an elite L on their 16 team. You must have missed that since you are preoccupied with my unnamed "nonsense" and worrying bout top or 2nd teams from clubs rather than BYU's backrow. I don't care who V thinks should be on their top, 2nd or 3rd teams. Frankly, they did a good job qualifying multiple teams in the open division, but if they would have put the top talent all on one team, they would have won a national championship with a coach who really wanted to. But politics are difficult to avoid particularly when you put together teams based in large part on potentially getting players scholly's rather than winning matches in open divisions. I probably should direct my comments about L's and V to the L who was hurt at nationals. She is the most athletic L in the V 17's but I have heard that she is a school problem. She also flops a lot but as far as outright skill she is better than all the 17 L's, including my mystery daughter. BYU needs to go get the 16 DS/OH. She will blossom with good coaching.
There are some opportunities for improvement on BYU’s backrow. I believe many on this forum know that. See— I’m not living under a rock; I do agree with you on “some nuggets of truth”. However, the season is just getting started and it’s only fair to give the newcomers a chance to prove their value. One doesn’t have to be a data scientist to look at your past posts and see some trends: 1. You love to take swings at Heather. 2. You're an avid critic of the Bowers. 3. You like to gossip way too much about V’s top 17's team and put in plugs for the 17s - 2nd team. I get it - you’re entitled to your opinions. But, if you don’t want people in this forum to suspect you are a jaded parent, whose kid BYU didn’t go after, then it might serve you well to start a Club V thread somewhere else because many of us here find your “suspected” Club V agenda quite boring. But, for all of you to know, his info has a lot of truth to it and while it is boring, it is not boring enough to not have me post about it! Now, let's get this forum back to what it was meant to be. Go Cougs and Club V! |
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