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Post by alpo on Aug 30, 2022 14:45:40 GMT -5
I'm very curious about several things: 1) At this point it seems Eden Bower has beaten the other outside hitters for her position. But I have a hard time watching a outside hitter with average hops beating out the others. Does someone have inside info on this. It seems to me that Callahan and Stowell were very talented gets...I wish I knew how they are being handled...but, that note will go unanswered by us on the sidelines. Please let's not go through a Zanya Meyer situation 2) I also agree that it seems so odd having a Bower in the back row who doesn't deserve her place...again, I wish I knew the mind of Heather on this? 3) I would think that if BYU stays in the top ten for the rest of the year that they can go after a solid libero or DS position player anywhere in the country...who does their recruiting? Alpo - be very careful on this thread about pointing out any issue that isn't consistent with an elite level D-1 BYU women's vb program. It certainly looks like E Bower has won the spot. I would like to see Callahan and Stowell play as well. You really can't get a handle on a players upside until they are put under pressure in a match. But, the lack of playing time for anyone who Heather deems as a non-starter is legendary. She simply won't play second or third string players. Why? I have a guess but I don't know if I am correct. But, yes, I think it would be healthy for the program to show the top 2 or 3 players and let the staff, other players, the actual player, and the fans see for themselves what transpires. BYU will have matches they will easily win ..... who cares if they go 4 sets or not. They need to develop a deeper bench and give the girls a chance to showcase their abilities (or not). E Bower has a big arm swing and she takes a shorter approach. W Bower knows this and the balls are faster to E Bower than any other OH. Smart .... but these 2 girls have practiced this for years. I want to see Pitt and other big time programs compete with BYU. It will give us more insight into what this team has. Can E Bower block well against a very athletic Opp? We will see as the season moves on. Knudsen played well but she wasn't really game planned for so I am awaiting the scouting to take place. E Bower will be tested on D also. We shall see. Heather is a very good coach, despite what other believe I think about her. When she gets a girl into her program she almost always gets the right girls on the court. Her weakness is evaluating talent while recruiting. M Bower is not a D-1 athlete. She shouldn't be on the team. Abby shouldn't be on the team either. After this season is over there should be a big turnover of players. BYU is good enough to get top L's and DS's but the issue here isn't that they can't get a couple, it is that they can't recognize really elite level players when they see them. Many times they will need to look at positions other than L or DS to find exceptional talent or upside as a backrow player and that whole line of thought escapes BYU completely. |
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Post by mintonetteman on Aug 30, 2022 14:50:51 GMT -5
Alpo - be very careful on this thread about pointing out any issue that isn't consistent with an elite level D-1 BYU women's vb program. It certainly looks like E Bower has won the spot. I would like to see Callahan and Stowell play as well. You really can't get a handle on a players upside until they are put under pressure in a match. But, the lack of playing time for anyone who Heather deems as a non-starter is legendary. She simply won't play second or third string players. Why? I have a guess but I don't know if I am correct. But, yes, I think it would be healthy for the program to show the top 2 or 3 players and let the staff, other players, the actual player, and the fans see for themselves what transpires. BYU will have matches they will easily win ..... who cares if they go 4 sets or not. They need to develop a deeper bench and give the girls a chance to showcase their abilities (or not). E Bower has a big arm swing and she takes a shorter approach. W Bower knows this and the balls are faster to E Bower than any other OH. Smart .... but these 2 girls have practiced this for years. I want to see Pitt and other big time programs compete with BYU. It will give us more insight into what this team has. Can E Bower block well against a very athletic Opp? We will see as the season moves on. Knudsen played well but she wasn't really game planned for so I am awaiting the scouting to take place. E Bower will be tested on D also. We shall see. Heather is a very good coach, despite what other believe I think about her. When she gets a girl into her program she almost always gets the right girls on the court. Her weakness is evaluating talent while recruiting. M Bower is not a D-1 athlete. She shouldn't be on the team. Abby shouldn't be on the team either. After this season is over there should be a big turnover of players. BYU is good enough to get top L's and DS's but the issue here isn't that they can't get a couple, it is that they can't recognize really elite level players when they see them. Many times they will need to look at positions other than L or DS to find exceptional talent or upside as a backrow player and that whole line of thought escapes BYU completely. Alpo - be careful on this thread to not to sound to much like marnvbc, you will loose all credibility. |
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Post by alpo on Aug 30, 2022 14:56:57 GMT -5
marnvbc2 I like your assessment. To me it will be fun and interesting to see how the volleyball team does against stiffer competition and although still early in the season we'll get to start seeing a separation of the wheat from the tares. I enjoyed watching my daughter's vb practices and you could definitely get so much insight not only of the players but of the coaches and why they do things the way they do. It is hard for me to critique Heather, because she has a tough job of balancing not only those who should be on the floor, but individual personalities, team chemistry, game planning for specific teams and overall being the final decision maker. As to the recognizing of talent...isn't that what David Hyte and the assistant coaches are there for...in my daughter's recruitment it was the Assistant coaches who recognized the talent and established the relationship prior to bringing them before the head coach.
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BYU 2022
Aug 30, 2022 15:02:30 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by karma on Aug 30, 2022 15:02:30 GMT -5
Pleasantly surprised with the way BYU played this weekend, especially against WSU. There seems to not be as big of a drop off as I would have thought from last year to this year. And quite frankly, I think Eden Bower will be more efficient than TBN on the outside. Also, I’m gonna say it, offensively, Llarenas is an upgrade from Eschenberg. So far, her blocking numbers would suggest something similar, but I realize it’s only been three matches.
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Post by mintonetteman on Aug 30, 2022 16:44:19 GMT -5
Not sure Llarenas is as good a blocker as Eschenberg...but boy Llarenas looked good offensively. And, she was consistently effective in the games I watched. I want to see her in person, but she seems like she is a very good jumper (quick jumper). And, it allows us to develop Prior. BYU is going to be good at MB for a long time.
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BYU 2022
Aug 31, 2022 12:07:32 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by karma on Aug 31, 2022 12:07:32 GMT -5
Anyone planning on making a thread for this weekends tournament? Or at the very least the Pitt match.
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Zazu
All-American
Singin' once again in the rain, snow, hail, fog, smog, mist, haze, sun, wind, etc.
Posts: 1,536 
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Post by Zazu on Aug 31, 2022 12:14:07 GMT -5
Anyone planning on making a thread for this weekends tournament? Or at the very least the Pitt match. I'm not planning on doing any stand-alone match threads this year. I'm only planning to post WCC matches in the WCC thread. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Sept 1, 2022 16:08:12 GMT -5
Do the players who don't start get chances to earn time by performing well in practice? Yes. The idea that coaches owe it to fans and want-to-be-coaches to give playing time to non-starters so that fans can evaluate different lineup options seems odd to me. If you want to see other lineup options ask to attend practice. Maybe you would be allowed to do so. Some teams have close competition for starting roles. Coaches of those teams have good reason to keep testing different lineups in practice and in matches. My understanding is that BYU does not have any close competition for starting positions except perhaps at libero and DS. Do you have different information? I don't have any information on practice competition at all. What I do know is that if you watched Rose at PSU, Cook at Neb, Hambly at Stanford, McCutcheon at Minn, and Sheffield at Wisc ..... and a few of the other top coaches/programs you will see many more OH's, MB's and sometimes even setters playing throughout the early 10 preseason matches so that players can be evaluated where it counts most, in a match with match pressure on them. No great coach is satisfied with only practice observations. This an issue that BYU could develop and needs to develop. It goes against the way things have been done in Heather's tenure but she could easily change it up and that aspect would help make sure that players know what their status is. It helps coaches not make mistakes or have too much or too little confidence in reserve players. It is a big deal. I think that Prior, now that they have wasted her red shirt year (I totally disagreed with that move) needs to have playing time. I also believe that Callahan needs time on the OH. She has a bit more vertical and rotational quickness than Stowell. Can she compete with Bower? I think she can but it will be a close call and I am not saying that Bower shouldn't be the starting OH2. Billeter on the backrow and Morevec hitting in a set here or there? Taylor is a roster spot waste, but we do need to see Decker play. She needs 1 set for 3 or 4 matches in a row. Dayton, M Clinger, and Taylor, shouldn't be on the roster but they are, so hopefully they won't be next season. Some good teams will put pressure on BYU which will help address weaknesses but we will also learn positive surprises about a player or two. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Sept 1, 2022 16:46:10 GMT -5
I will keep rumors to myself on this. You can check the ladies twitter and see it was scrubbed so that isn't a rumor. What does her Twitter account have anything to do with her granddaughter being called a racial slur? There's literally no correlation there... Don't get me started on this .... if a person is full of racist comments especially over a decent length of time (years) then they are to be given zero credibility by me. Particularly when they try to point out another person's (or group's) racism. See if the Duke girl had a problem with racial remarks or slurs that allegedly were thrown her way from a BYU fan in the student section (which she should), why wouldn't Rachel have already dealt with her God Mother's terrible views of non-black persons which have gone on for years?? One wrong doesn't make another right, but ignoring behavior of racist black people, white people or any other race just because they are related isn't a way to earn credibility. It also appears that the investigation is showing that Rachel is the only Duke player, administrator or coach to hear the alleged remarks. She was pulled from the starting rotation by the Duke HC (because of her level of play) right before she leveled the accusation and she didn't participate in the starting rotation in set 3, which was the only set won by Duke. Ref's and the BYU coaches were told of the issue/accusation and the down ref specifically asked the back judge about the issue and she replied that she had heard nothing from the crowd that was racist. I think that ref is a minority from her looks and would be sensitive to such a remark. But you can watch her lips as she answers the down ref. No one in the investigation has come up with any support of racist comments made from the BYU student section at all. Rachel told her teammates about what she "heard" but none of them heard it first hand. Neither did the Duke administrator standing between the BYU student section and the Duke team in sets 2 and 4. The SFH is littered with HD camera's and microphones for picking up sound. It is a close venue and probably has the best in house tv recording system in the nation. So, I am confident that if there were racial slurs hurled at Rachel that they will catch the idiot who said it. BYU threw out a non BYU student because he made a Duke team member uncomfortable. The kid has a disability and there is even police interviews of him where the police say he stood by them in the student section and didn't yell any racist language, in fact, the TV cameras show him on his phone and not watching the match when Rachel was serving by the BYU student section. He wasn't even talking yet alone yelling racial slurs. This actual evidence is wholly opposed to what the God Mother in Ft Worth said in her tweets that started the firestorm. Anyway, if we are to root out racism it has to go both ways. No one, no matter their skin color can tolerate racism and we should call out all people who demonstrate it and also cover for others who do it! |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Sept 1, 2022 17:23:49 GMT -5
Pleasantly surprised with the way BYU played this weekend, especially against WSU. There seems to not be as big of a drop off as I would have thought from last year to this year. And quite frankly, I think Eden Bower will be more efficient than TBN on the outside. Also, I’m gonna say it, offensively, Llarenas is an upgrade from Eschenberg. So far, her blocking numbers would suggest something similar, but I realize it’s only been three matches. I am very hesitant to use the first 3 matches of the year as a measuring stick of players on the team. But if you are Llarenas, you couldn't have asked for a better start to a year. Better that Kennedy Esh? I won't go that far at this point, but Whitney has a shot at making us forget we lost an All-American MB off the team .... that is for sure. Llarenas is a very good jumper and more importantly she has excellent reactions and quick reflex's. Bower is off to a good start also. If she performs as well this weekend as she did last weekend, she is setting herself up for a very good year. Team's will not catch on to the faster tempo and lower balls that W Bower is giving to Eden for quite awhile. It messes with the tempo on a regular team but they have been at it for so long it isn't a big deal. Will a top 10 team scout BYU enough to catch that fact? Not until the NCAA tourney probably. 2 dominate OH's with a great blocking Opp and even just a little above average passing/serve receive will lead to a final 4 berth for BYU. I if were Hyte I would concentrate on getting a top flight 6'3" - 6' 5" Opp and BYU would immediately hop up into elite status. It helps control the elite OH's across the country and it also takes heat off the BYU back-row. |
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Post by eotexas5 on Sept 2, 2022 11:01:11 GMT -5
What does her Twitter account have anything to do with her granddaughter being called a racial slur? There's literally no correlation there... Don't get me started on this .... if a person is full of racist comments especially over a decent length of time (years) then they are to be given zero credibility by me. Particularly when they try to point out another person's (or group's) racism. See if the Duke girl had a problem with racial remarks or slurs that allegedly were thrown her way from a BYU fan in the student section (which she should), why wouldn't Rachel have already dealt with her God Mother's terrible views of non-black persons which have gone on for years?? One wrong doesn't make another right, but ignoring behavior of racist black people, white people or any other race just because they are related isn't a way to earn credibility. It also appears that the investigation is showing that Rachel is the only Duke player, administrator or coach to hear the alleged remarks. She was pulled from the starting rotation by the Duke HC (because of her level of play) right before she leveled the accusation and she didn't participate in the starting rotation in set 3, which was the only set won by Duke. Ref's and the BYU coaches were told of the issue/accusation and the down ref specifically asked the back judge about the issue and she replied that she had heard nothing from the crowd that was racist. I think that ref is a minority from her looks and would be sensitive to such a remark. But you can watch her lips as she answers the down ref. No one in the investigation has come up with any support of racist comments made from the BYU student section at all. Rachel told her teammates about what she "heard" but none of them heard it first hand. Neither did the Duke administrator standing between the BYU student section and the Duke team in sets 2 and 4. The SFH is littered with HD camera's and microphones for picking up sound. It is a close venue and probably has the best in house tv recording system in the nation. So, I am confident that if there were racial slurs hurled at Rachel that they will catch the idiot who said it. BYU threw out a non BYU student because he made a Duke team member uncomfortable. The kid has a disability and there is even police interviews of him where the police say he stood by them in the student section and didn't yell any racist language, in fact, the TV cameras show him on his phone and not watching the match when Rachel was serving by the BYU student section. He wasn't even talking yet alone yelling racial slurs. This actual evidence is wholly opposed to what the God Mother in Ft Worth said in her tweets that started the firestorm. Anyway, if we are to root out racism it has to go both ways. No one, no matter their skin color can tolerate racism and we should call out all people who demonstrate it and also cover for others who do it! Oh sweetie, you really thought you ate with this post. If you wanted to find an article dismissing the "investigation," trust me, in this day and age of conservative media, you would be able to. I know that white people usually have a different definition when it comes to racism so I would ask you to provide me ONE piece of evidence showing her godmother's "terrible view of non-black person's." As a POC myself, I'm not surprised when I come across people like you because I know ignorance is alive and well in this country. The fact that you think it's more likely that someone would like about being called the n-word than a white person calling a black person the n-word is laughable at best. But again, I know that white people in this country live in a different reality than the rest of us. |
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Post by eotexas5 on Sept 2, 2022 11:02:29 GMT -5
Don't get me started on this .... if a person is full of racist comments especially over a decent length of time (years) then they are to be given zero credibility by me. Particularly when they try to point out another person's (or group's) racism. See if the Duke girl had a problem with racial remarks or slurs that allegedly were thrown her way from a BYU fan in the student section (which she should), why wouldn't Rachel have already dealt with her God Mother's terrible views of non-black persons which have gone on for years?? One wrong doesn't make another right, but ignoring behavior of racist black people, white people or any other race just because they are related isn't a way to earn credibility. It also appears that the investigation is showing that Rachel is the only Duke player, administrator or coach to hear the alleged remarks. She was pulled from the starting rotation by the Duke HC (because of her level of play) right before she leveled the accusation and she didn't participate in the starting rotation in set 3, which was the only set won by Duke. Ref's and the BYU coaches were told of the issue/accusation and the down ref specifically asked the back judge about the issue and she replied that she had heard nothing from the crowd that was racist. I think that ref is a minority from her looks and would be sensitive to such a remark. But you can watch her lips as she answers the down ref. No one in the investigation has come up with any support of racist comments made from the BYU student section at all. Rachel told her teammates about what she "heard" but none of them heard it first hand. Neither did the Duke administrator standing between the BYU student section and the Duke team in sets 2 and 4. The SFH is littered with HD camera's and microphones for picking up sound. It is a close venue and probably has the best in house tv recording system in the nation. So, I am confident that if there were racial slurs hurled at Rachel that they will catch the idiot who said it. BYU threw out a non BYU student because he made a Duke team member uncomfortable. The kid has a disability and there is even police interviews of him where the police say he stood by them in the student section and didn't yell any racist language, in fact, the TV cameras show him on his phone and not watching the match when Rachel was serving by the BYU student section. He wasn't even talking yet alone yelling racial slurs. This actual evidence is wholly opposed to what the God Mother in Ft Worth said in her tweets that started the firestorm. Anyway, if we are to root out racism it has to go both ways. No one, no matter their skin color can tolerate racism and we should call out all people who demonstrate it and also cover for others who do it! Oh sweetie, you really thought you ate with this post. If you wanted to find an article dismissing the "investigation," trust me, in this day and age of conservative media, you would be able to. I know that white people usually have a different definition when it comes to racism so I would ask you to provide me ONE piece of evidence showing her godmother's "terrible view of non-black person's." As a POC myself, I'm not surprised when I come across people like you because I know ignorance is alive and well in this country. The fact that you think it's more likely that someone would like about being called the n-word than a white person calling a black person the n-word is laughable at best. But again, I know that white people in this country live in a different reality than the rest of us. Additionally, I'm SO GLAD that Texas is leaving this %*$#ty conference when BYU joins. The last thing this conference needs is more religious affiliations from people who see themselves as more righteous than the rest. Good riddance. |
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vvv
Sophomore
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Post by vvv on Sept 2, 2022 13:10:30 GMT -5
Okay.... This has blown up and I will say one thing.... as far as evidence.... and as far as why BYU didn't do anything. I was at the game and near the student section. I did not hear one racial slur ever. I did see security or police but had no idea why they were there. For the entire game, I heard no racial slurs whatsoever... Just loud BYU students cheering for their team and using first names of the opponents. So many people on this forum and outside went straight to "racism," without any evidence. I am not saying the Duke player is telling lies, but I am saying that it is TOTALLY possible to hear something different from what was being said in a packed gym with over 5,000 people there. This user wants evidence that the Godmother is racist, yet there is not one iota of evidence to show that BYU students are? This world is full of racist people and they should not be tolerated, but for this instance, if we are talking evidence.... Where is the evidence to prove that BYU students, the school, the Mormon religion, white people, etc. are ALL racists? I just don't get it. And... as I said before... Next year, there will be a crew of players on the BYU team that are poc and if a school is RACIST and everyone in it... then why would these players even want to come? I am guessing it is because they feel comfortable in the BYU environment and Racism does not seem to be an issue in their minds. But, no matter what racial white tweets show up from the godmother, no matter what evidence is NOT shown ( I mean... I was there for goodness sakes.. and heard nothing of that nature and I am not lying like they claim the BYU police are???), this blew up and people with their own agendas will see nothing other than that BYU did not handle a racial slur situation (with zero and I mean zero evidence) correctly and therefore must all be RACIST.
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Post by bkedane on Sept 2, 2022 16:27:41 GMT -5
Do the players who don't start get chances to earn time by performing well in practice? Yes. The idea that coaches owe it to fans and want-to-be-coaches to give playing time to non-starters so that fans can evaluate different lineup options seems odd to me. If you want to see other lineup options ask to attend practice. Maybe you would be allowed to do so. Some teams have close competition for starting roles. Coaches of those teams have good reason to keep testing different lineups in practice and in matches. My understanding is that BYU does not have any close competition for starting positions except perhaps at libero and DS. Do you have different information? I don't have any information on practice competition at all. What I do know is that if you watched Rose at PSU, Cook at Neb, Hambly at Stanford, McCutcheon at Minn, and Sheffield at Wisc ..... and a few of the other top coaches/programs you will see many more OH's, MB's and sometimes even setters playing throughout the early 10 preseason matches so that players can be evaluated where it counts most, in a match with match pressure on them. No great coach is satisfied with only practice observations. This an issue that BYU could develop and needs to develop. It goes against the way things have been done in Heather's tenure but she could easily change it up and that aspect would help make sure that players know what their status is. It helps coaches not make mistakes or have too much or too little confidence in reserve players. It is a big deal. I think that Prior, now that they have wasted her red shirt year (I totally disagreed with that move) needs to have playing time. I also believe that Callahan needs time on the OH. She has a bit more vertical and rotational quickness than Stowell. Can she compete with Bower? I think she can but it will be a close call and I am not saying that Bower shouldn't be the starting OH2. Billeter on the backrow and Morevec hitting in a set here or there? Taylor is a roster spot waste, but we do need to see Decker play. She needs 1 set for 3 or 4 matches in a row. Dayton, M Clinger, and Taylor, shouldn't be on the roster but they are, so hopefully they won't be next season. Some good teams will put pressure on BYU which will help address weaknesses but we will also learn positive surprises about a player or two. What you say about that list of coaches is not correct. "No great coach is satisfied with only practice information." Some are. Some in your list have in some seasons done what you say -- given lots of players chances to perform in matches early on as they sort out their lineups. All of them in some seasons have done literally none of that. The lineup has been set from match one based entirely on practice observations. Two of those coaches and programs i know very well. When there is close in the gym competition, revealing a deep roster of talent, yes, lots of players play at least early on. In years with little or no competition, the starting lineup is set early and pleas from fans to "show us the backups in real matches" are of course ignored. My understanding is that's what is going on at BYU this year. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Sept 7, 2022 22:53:05 GMT -5
Oh sweetie, you really thought you ate with this post. If you wanted to find an article dismissing the "investigation," trust me, in this day and age of conservative media, you would be able to. I know that white people usually have a different definition when it comes to racism so I would ask you to provide me ONE piece of evidence showing her godmother's "terrible view of non-black person's." As a POC myself, I'm not surprised when I come across people like you because I know ignorance is alive and well in this country. The fact that you think it's more likely that someone would like about being called the n-word than a white person calling a black person the n-word is laughable at best. But again, I know that white people in this country live in a different reality than the rest of us. Additionally, I'm SO GLAD that Texas is leaving this %*$#ty conference when BYU joins. The last thing this conference needs is more religious affiliations from people who see themselves as more righteous than the rest. Good riddance. Thanks for exposing your views on this topic! Texas isn't actually leaving the conference when BYU and the other 3 schools join it. Too bad you don't like Baylor and TCU because of their religious views. Can you see any problem with your line of thinking .... probably not, but most of us can. |
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