BYU 2022

[bbg95]

Oct 20, 2022 14:21:06 GMT -5 Zazu said:

Oct 20, 2022 14:16:13 GMT -5 marnvbc2 said:

I have seen Abby play a little bit. There is some upside there so good for her/BYU! Now we need to see 4-5 back row girls brought in to compete. BYU has 1 girl from Utah committed already but they need 4 more passers to find 1 or 2 legit ones. MB's will be decimated with Heather and Whitney both gone at season's end. Need to get Prior more match time in the middle right now. Stowell is being given an opportunity and we will see if she grabs the moment. I wouldn't rule out a return of E Bower but we will see. Can we ever see Montoya at OH or Opp? I can't believe that she can't hit but if she can't hit she isn't a good enough server to just fill that role. Perplexing.

Jarom Jordan has stated several times during broadcasts that Heather Gneiting is the only player with no eligibility left after this season, so Whitney Llarenas could play another season if she wants. I'd like to see them play Montoya as well, just to see what she can do. She didn't pass particularly well in the blue/white scrimmage (but neither did Stowell or Callahan) and I thought she hit fairly well.

I thought Montoya was pretty error-prone in the scrimmage. She can hit the ball pretty hard, but I'm skeptical that she's a better option than what they have.

[mintonetteman]

Headed to the USD match tomorrow...excited to finally watch in person. Not sure this BYU team is going in the right direction...hope I am wrong. Getting more excited about the men's season.

[Zazu]

Oct 20, 2022 15:50:00 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Headed to the USD match tomorrow...excited to finally watch in person. Not sure this BYU team is going in the right direction...hope I am wrong. Getting more excited about the men's season.

I’m very interested to see how BYU stacks up against the Torreros. I hope you’ll share your thoughts after the match. I’m also curious about the men’s team. Do you know much about them? I’m probably going to just watch at home this year. My back needs a break. Fall and spring volleyball is a bit too much these days.

[marnvbc2]

Oct 20, 2022 15:50:00 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Headed to the USD match tomorrow...excited to finally watch in person. Not sure this BYU team is going in the right direction...hope I am wrong. Getting more excited about the men's season.

The USD match will be a defining moment in this season.  Hopefully the team will be ready to play and the coaches have a line up that will change the chemistry of the on court performance.  I still think that the "right" line up hasn't been hit on yet.  But, if BYU can get off quickly the confidence will build and they will become a much better team.  Confidence is lacking in themselves right now.  USD would be a huge win and probably a season changing win.  Even if BYU loses but keeps it close it will be good for them.  It will be fun to watch it in person.

[marnvbc2]

Oct 20, 2022 15:43:18 GMT -5 bbg95 said:

Oct 20, 2022 14:21:06 GMT -5 Zazu said:

Jarom Jordan has stated several times during broadcasts that Heather Gneiting is the only player with no eligibility left after this season, so Whitney Llarenas could play another season if she wants. I'd like to see them play Montoya as well, just to see what she can do. She didn't pass particularly well in the blue/white scrimmage (but neither did Stowell or Callahan) and I thought she hit fairly well.

I thought Montoya was pretty error-prone in the scrimmage. She can hit the ball pretty hard, but I'm skeptical that she's a better option than what they have.

You could be correct about Montoya.  I didn't see the scrimmage. But she has good height and appears fairly athletic.  Maybe she can't pass, but I would really like to see her hit.  Not being able to pass isn't a disqualifier on this team.  If she can't hit, I will struggle to see why BYU keeps her around next season.  Montoya, Albright, Decker,  and Moravec are all big question marks for me.  Need to find out if they have upside that is good enough to keep them on the roster.  Clinger, Billeter, Taylor, and Dayton should be shown the exit, quickly.  Another year to figure out E Bower, Callahan, and Stowell is probably necessary but after one more season 2 of them need to be gone.  With the incoming class talent level I would probably ask Callahan to exit after this season.  She just doesn't seem to have court vision in her hitting and it was tough to see that until she faced pretty good competition.  If W Llarenas can come back that would be great.  Still Prior needs more MB time and that would dovetail into my thinking ..... which will not sit well with some of you .... that Kate Grimmer isn't good enough to help BYU win big matches.  I like her arm, but she doesn't have hops and she also isn't a natural blocker.  Good player but just not good enough.  Time to move her out of the program and replace her with a good blocker who can score occasionally.  Look forward to tonight to see if the bleeding can be stopped and BYU can find their footing.   

[smartcookie]

volleyl0ver in the USD 2022 thread said they thought Grimmer needed to be more productive and that they thought Grimmer & Bower might have the same amount of kills this season. I was curious and looked, but wanted to answer on the BYU thread.

Bower and Grimmer have both played in 62 sets this year. Bower has 67 kills, hitting .320 and Grimmer has 79 kills, hitting .236.

[vvv]

Curious to y'all thoughts from who went in person to the USD game?

[karma]

The story is in the serve and pass. BYU’s passing woes are well known at this point. But what isn’t talked about as much is that their serving has been pretty bad this year. Their aces per set is way low. And their error rate is too high for the amount of aces they are getting.

In system they can hang with top teams, but they aren’t in system enough. They have the athleticism and talent offensively, but when you are losing 4-8 points (or more) per set because of bad passing and service errors there’s no way you’re going to win against other top teams. Bower is getting beat up chasing those balls around. It’s exhausting to watch.

Luckily there are some good libero prospects in the pipeline the next few years and hopefully that will help clean up BYU’s passing. But I’d really hope to see some new recruits be dominant behind the service line. That could be a gamechanger for BYU the next few years.

[kk1971]

A few quick thoughts about last nights match with USD and the team currently:

1. I hope we see more of Callahan at the right side--enough to see if it is an idea worth really developing for next season. Heather started doing this, I think, several matches prior to last night, and honestly I would like to see more. Callahan was the lone bright spot to me last night other than a better-than-expected blocking effort. Grimmer was exposed so many times against USD defensively she may need therapy. And she hasn't been able to hit consistently enough to justify her defensive lapses. I would love to see Callahan get a real shot at oppo since we don't have many options. And I suspect that there is a reason why we are seeing Callahan instead of Montoya, but perhaps Montoya could show more in a game than she does in practice?

2. USD looked legit to me. This is their version of our transfer enhanced team last year--which for BYU was an outstanding team with an ultimately fatal passing weakness. I didn't realize how impactful Blossom and Edwards would be as transfers, but I was impressed. They exposed our lack of elite outsides, served well, passed well, and consistently kept balls in play that would have fallen on the BYU side. Hats off to them. I think they will have a special year if a few breaks go their way.

3. I still think Heather has done a good job this year, although the Pacific loss had and has me worried. I expected to split with USD, drop one more we shouldn't just because that's volleyball, and finish second. I now am questioning that. Based on what I saw last night, unless Heather truly is a miracle worker, we just don't have the talent to compete with USD this year. And we have the LMU/Pepperdine road swing still to come. I now think being alone in 2nd place in the conference would be quite the coaching job for Heather, and frankly expect at least a tie or possibly 3rd place.

4. BYU is a good team this year. They just aren't a great team. Their strengths are at setter, Heather Gneiting defensively, and an Erin Livingston that has gotten better every year. I don't believe Erin is a legit great outside this year. I think she is very good--all conference type, but not better than that. If Erin continues to improve as she has so far, I think she could be very good, and possibly elite next year. I am also more impressed with Stowell than I think most on here are, but she is clearly several notches below where Erin is right now. I watched her play carefully last night to see how she would do against USD and she didn't have many bad swings, no matter what the stats show in the end. That said, unless she, Bower or Callahan really improves off season (which clearly could and I hope happens), I don't think any of them are better than Little as a true freshman next year. I think BYU will not host this year, and that they will have their work cut out for them to make it to the Sweet 16 again. Not saying they won't, only that it wont be the sure thing it is most years.

5. Final observation is that the transfer portal matters. We were unexpectedly good last year due to Koerber. USD is unexpectedly good (to me at least) this year due to Edwards and Blossom. BYU has to aggressively go after transfers. I get that BYU culturally is unique and maybe the pool is more limited to members who aren't (yet) at BYU, but I hope BYU finds a way. BYU will have some pieces to build around. I think Livingston will be better than ever and hopefully continues to get better and better every year like RJP did. Whitney at setter makes so many good things happen. I think Prior (who I hope gets a lot more playing time the second half of conference play) is legit and if Llarenas comes back BYU will be solid in the middle. I believe improved versions of Stowell and E. Bower will push Claire Little for the 2nd outside hitter spot and I think we will be solid there. BUT, we need so much help defensively, at the service line, and on the right side. Transfers, where are you?

Do you all see things differently?

[socalvbhomer]

Very nice points…
The cougars were really hurt by Bower getting hit over by Edwards and the lack of a O2 at that level. Little is a special talent, she can help significantly if she stays healthy- the Portal is a reality that I’m sure the staff is very aware of, and will go into if a player is available that would come to the BY. Any B1G fans knew Edwards had a cannon, and Blossom would be a NPOY candidate with the Weapons the SD has this season.

[mintonetteman]

Boy, going to have to stay positive on this one. I will start with the positive, Whitney Bower may be my all time favorite BYU player in terms of toughness. She was obviously injured and was trying to play through it. But she is obviously not moving well, even limping. And, if she isn't healthy it is hard for her to 1) track down bad serve receive and play defense and 2) block. Not sure what to say about serve receive AND our defense. My thing is defense and we are just bad...really bad.

You have two leaders for BYU, Bower and Gneiting (and it is really hard for a MB to be the main leader because you are off 1/3 of the rotations). But I do like Gneiting's fire and passion. I really thought Livingston would have more of a leadership presence--but didn't really see it. She is so athletic, but she is not comfortable in the back row. Problem is we have no one to protect her and no way to hide her. Livingston is not the same player I watched earlier this year. We need Livingston to be elite...she was early, clearly not elite against USD.

The overall athleticism is a problem--Grimmer and Stowell are very underwhelming athletically. That is a big issue. Neither is very high (both have arm talent and can play well against St. Mary's and USF, but they just don't match up well against size). Montaya and Eden Bower look good...in warm ups...but, if they are not playing and can't beat out Stowell and/or Grimmer, that is not a good sign for them. Maybe they develop like RJP given their obvious athleticism, sure hope so. And, well, there is serve and serve receive...I well, I won't go there. I will say, again, very underwhelming pure athletes. This is less of a concern if they were elite in serve receive but they are not. We are clearly not the team that beat Washington State and Duke...or even that lost to Pitt. I fear this team is going the wrong direction. If Bower is hurt, just making the NCAA tourney should be the goal.

[socal3]

Haven’t been following BYU closely. When did they change away from Knudsen at Libero and has it helped?

[marnvbc2]

Oct 24, 2022 10:03:12 GMT -5 mintonetteman said:

Boy, going to have to stay positive on this one. I will start with the positive, Whitney Bower may be my all time favorite BYU player in terms of toughness. She was obviously injured and was trying to play through it. But she is obviously not moving well, even limping. And, if she isn't healthy it is hard for her to 1) track down bad serve receive and play defense and 2) block. Not sure what to say about serve receive AND our defense. My thing is defense and we are just bad...really bad.

You have two leaders for BYU, Bower and Gneiting (and it is really hard for a MB to be the main leader because you are off 1/3 of the rotations). But I do like Gneiting's fire and passion. I really thought Livingston would have more of a leadership presence--but didn't really see it. She is so athletic, but she is not comfortable in the back row. Problem is we have no one to protect her and no way to hide her. Livingston is not the same player I watched earlier this year. We need Livingston to be elite...she was early, clearly not elite against USD.

The overall athleticism is a problem--Grimmer and Stowell are very underwhelming athletically. That is a big issue. Neither is very high (both have arm talent and can play well against St. Mary's and USF, but they just don't match up well against size). Montaya and Eden Bower look good...in warm ups...but, if they are not playing and can't beat out Stowell and/or Grimmer, that is not a good sign for them. Maybe they develop like RJP given their obvious athleticism, sure hope so. And, well, there is serve and serve receive...I well, I won't go there. I will say, again, very underwhelming pure athletes. This is less of a concern if they were elite in serve receive but they are not. We are clearly not the team that beat Washington State and Duke...or even that lost to Pitt. I fear this team is going the wrong direction. If Bower is hurt, just making the NCAA tourney should be the goal.

I haven't heard that W Bower is injured at all.  Where did you get that info?  She even took her large knee brace off a few matches ago and no brace has returned.  I am not sure we are watching the same player you are describing.  She set well, she served well and she really hustled all over the court.  The team isn't helping her out much and fortunately she is pretty athletic because BYU needs a setter who has good footspeed with the current passing issues.  If she was limping I didn't notice and I was at the USD match.  If you are trying to give a reason for the kills going over her blocking I am not in agreement with you.  That has happened against all elite level and some (just decent) teams over her entire career.  

At some point, the honest vb crowd will have to admit that Whitney simply isn't a good enough blocker against good (but especially elite) competition.  Grimmer isn't either.  If BYU hadn't lost Meyer, I would put Whitey at DS and this team would be in business.  This is a killer for the BYU program because Mary Lake used to cover up a lot of blocking issues.  Now ... no help at all back there.  Grimmer and probably all 3 (OH-2's) aren't going to be 6 rotation players, and win big matches.  Did anyone watch the open nationals and see Claire?  Do you think she will play 6 rotations at BYU and be an positive impact?  Heather G is elite and Whitney L is very good as is Erin.  W Bower is also good in the setting dept.  Her dumps are mostly for show against teams who haven't scouted or aren't very good.  She is highly predictable and USD blocked her back into reality.  Gabby Blossom will be WCC setter of the year and she should be. She won't attempt 1/3 of the dumps that Bower will but she will win.  She is a cagey setter but not the athlete Bower is.  However she is so deceptive that she makes up for pure athletic talent by running the offense at a higher tempo than Bower does.  She is excellent in the hands dept and her sets are more accurate, particularly back sets.  Other elite defenders/teams will block Bower dumps just like USD did and just like Purdue did in the last NCAA tourney.  That is it for this program.  They have holes all over the roster which contain players who aren't able to beat good teams.  The sheer athletic ability of the team is dismal.  Again I go back to recruiting great athletes and teaching them the skills.  To BYU's credit they have 2 incoming true athletes.  Having played against them at nationals they are legit.  One of them should start immediately at Opp.  Problem solved there.  Need more athletes!

[marnvbc2]

Oct 24, 2022 10:49:35 GMT -5 socal3 said:

Haven’t been following BYU closely. When did they change away from Knudsen at Libero and has it helped?

It has been a failed change.  I think they need to go back to Knudsen asap and leave it alone.  Wheels are off.

[mintonetteman]

Both have strengths and obvious flaws. But they are different strengths and flaws. For me it would depend on my defensive strategy for each game (including my blocking strategy).