vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 128
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Post by vvv on Oct 27, 2022 0:50:56 GMT -5
Haven’t been following BYU closely. When did they change away from Knudsen at Libero and has it helped? It has been a failed change. I think they need to go back to Knudsen asap and leave it alone. Wheels are off. |
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vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 128
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Post by vvv on Oct 27, 2022 0:51:31 GMT -5
Haven’t been following BYU closely. When did they change away from Knudsen at Libero and has it helped? It has been a failed change. I think they need to go back to Knudsen asap and leave it alone. Wheels are off. |
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Post by mintonetteman on Oct 27, 2022 15:13:50 GMT -5
Boy, going to have to stay positive on this one. I will start with the positive, Whitney Bower may be my all time favorite BYU player in terms of toughness. She was obviously injured and was trying to play through it. But she is obviously not moving well, even limping. And, if she isn't healthy it is hard for her to 1) track down bad serve receive and play defense and 2) block. Not sure what to say about serve receive AND our defense. My thing is defense and we are just bad...really bad. You have two leaders for BYU, Bower and Gneiting (and it is really hard for a MB to be the main leader because you are off 1/3 of the rotations). But I do like Gneiting's fire and passion. I really thought Livingston would have more of a leadership presence--but didn't really see it. She is so athletic, but she is not comfortable in the back row. Problem is we have no one to protect her and no way to hide her. Livingston is not the same player I watched earlier this year. We need Livingston to be elite...she was early, clearly not elite against USD. The overall athleticism is a problem--Grimmer and Stowell are very underwhelming athletically. That is a big issue. Neither is very high (both have arm talent and can play well against St. Mary's and USF, but they just don't match up well against size). Montaya and Eden Bower look good...in warm ups...but, if they are not playing and can't beat out Stowell and/or Grimmer, that is not a good sign for them. Maybe they develop like RJP given their obvious athleticism, sure hope so. And, well, there is serve and serve receive...I well, I won't go there. I will say, again, very underwhelming pure athletes. This is less of a concern if they were elite in serve receive but they are not. We are clearly not the team that beat Washington State and Duke...or even that lost to Pitt. I fear this team is going the wrong direction. If Bower is hurt, just making the NCAA tourney should be the goal. I haven't heard that W Bower is injured at all. Where did you get that info? She even took her large knee brace off a few matches ago and no brace has returned. I am not sure we are watching the same player you are describing. She set well, she served well and she really hustled all over the court. The team isn't helping her out much and fortunately she is pretty athletic because BYU needs a setter who has good footspeed with the current passing issues. If she was limping I didn't notice and I was at the USD match. If you are trying to give a reason for the kills going over her blocking I am not in agreement with you. That has happened against all elite level and some (just decent) teams over her entire career. At some point, the honest vb crowd will have to admit that Whitney simply isn't a good enough blocker against good (but especially elite) competition. Grimmer isn't either. If BYU hadn't lost Meyer, I would put Whitey at DS and this team would be in business. This is a killer for the BYU program because Mary Lake used to cover up a lot of blocking issues. Now ... no help at all back there. Grimmer and probably all 3 (OH-2's) aren't going to be 6 rotation players, and win big matches. Did anyone watch the open nationals and see Claire? Do you think she will play 6 rotations at BYU and be an positive impact? Heather G is elite and Whitney L is very good as is Erin. W Bower is also good in the setting dept. Her dumps are mostly for show against teams who haven't scouted or aren't very good. She is highly predictable and USD blocked her back into reality. Gabby Blossom will be WCC setter of the year and she should be. She won't attempt 1/3 of the dumps that Bower will but she will win. She is a cagey setter but not the athlete Bower is. However she is so deceptive that she makes up for pure athletic talent by running the offense at a higher tempo than Bower does. She is excellent in the hands dept and her sets are more accurate, particularly back sets. Other elite defenders/teams will block Bower dumps just like USD did and just like Purdue did in the last NCAA tourney. That is it for this program. They have holes all over the roster which contain players who aren't able to beat good teams. The sheer athletic ability of the team is dismal. Again I go back to recruiting great athletes and teaching them the skills. To BYU's credit they have 2 incoming true athletes. Having played against them at nationals they are legit. One of them should start immediately at Opp. Problem solved there. Need more athletes! Did you watch the USD match? Blossum is a very good setter...but she would struggle setting this BYU team. Very clear that Bower is hurt--again, did you watch the game. I was there in person, I was sitting with a player from last years team that said the same thing. I can't believe you do not think W. Bower is an "elite athlete" ... but Heather Gneiting is elite? I really can't figure out your angle, even if you are a Club V homer. At the end of the day, not sure we have the same definitions of "athleticism." I do think Livingston is an elite athlete...but she is complete lost in the back row. And, not sure why. Listen, I absolutely love her, but I kind of think she may be part of the reason our OH2s are struggling. I can't put my finger on it. I would love to know you think are the 2 incoming "true" athletes? If you don't like W. Bower, you are not going to like the Club V setter coming in. They are very similar, but the Club V setter is an inch shorter and I would be surprised at this point if she has the same touch. But, I am so glad BYU is getting her. It is clear to me that BYU recruits these kind of "setters" because of what it knows are the serve receive issues are. BYU needs all the Whitney Bowers and Jhenna Gabriels it can find. |
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vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 128
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Post by vvv on Oct 27, 2022 16:51:30 GMT -5
I think he is meaning Mia Lee and Silina Damuni. Lee should be starting, in my opinion, and if anything damuni is the same height, but definitely not shorter than Bower. The younger Bower sister is taller than both of them, but I'm not versed on her play. Either way, they will have a good line for that area. I don't know Damuni's touch point, but I have seen her play and she can jump for sure and supposedely leads her high school team in blocks according to Max Preps? I do agree BYU needs all the Whitney Bowers and Jhenna Gabriels they can get because they are the ones that run after those balls that go all over the creation. Miller coming in will help tremendously I think... I have seen all three of them play and with the right coaching and direction, they will be good for BYU.
Now, there is Decker? I haven't seen her play? Is she an athlete? She is taller then these other setters.
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Post by kk1971 on Oct 27, 2022 18:28:21 GMT -5
To vvv--I just want to make sure I understand your comment saying "Lee should be starting." At what position? Next year?
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BYU 2022
Oct 27, 2022 22:28:35 GMT -5
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Post by karma on Oct 27, 2022 22:28:35 GMT -5
Sorry but Abbey Taylor set the pins way better than bower
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Post by marnvbc2 on Oct 28, 2022 2:12:17 GMT -5
I haven't heard that W Bower is injured at all. Where did you get that info? She even took her large knee brace off a few matches ago and no brace has returned. I am not sure we are watching the same player you are describing. She set well, she served well and she really hustled all over the court. The team isn't helping her out much and fortunately she is pretty athletic because BYU needs a setter who has good footspeed with the current passing issues. If she was limping I didn't notice and I was at the USD match. If you are trying to give a reason for the kills going over her blocking I am not in agreement with you. That has happened against all elite level and some (just decent) teams over her entire career. At some point, the honest vb crowd will have to admit that Whitney simply isn't a good enough blocker against good (but especially elite) competition. Grimmer isn't either. If BYU hadn't lost Meyer, I would put Whitey at DS and this team would be in business. This is a killer for the BYU program because Mary Lake used to cover up a lot of blocking issues. Now ... no help at all back there. Grimmer and probably all 3 (OH-2's) aren't going to be 6 rotation players, and win big matches. Did anyone watch the open nationals and see Claire? Do you think she will play 6 rotations at BYU and be an positive impact? Heather G is elite and Whitney L is very good as is Erin. W Bower is also good in the setting dept. Her dumps are mostly for show against teams who haven't scouted or aren't very good. She is highly predictable and USD blocked her back into reality. Gabby Blossom will be WCC setter of the year and she should be. She won't attempt 1/3 of the dumps that Bower will but she will win. She is a cagey setter but not the athlete Bower is. However she is so deceptive that she makes up for pure athletic talent by running the offense at a higher tempo than Bower does. She is excellent in the hands dept and her sets are more accurate, particularly back sets. Other elite defenders/teams will block Bower dumps just like USD did and just like Purdue did in the last NCAA tourney. That is it for this program. They have holes all over the roster which contain players who aren't able to beat good teams. The sheer athletic ability of the team is dismal. Again I go back to recruiting great athletes and teaching them the skills. To BYU's credit they have 2 incoming true athletes. Having played against them at nationals they are legit. One of them should start immediately at Opp. Problem solved there. Need more athletes! Did you watch the USD match? Blossum is a very good setter...but she would struggle setting this BYU team. Very clear that Bower is hurt--again, did you watch the game. I was there in person, I was sitting with a player from last years team that said the same thing. I can't believe you do not think W. Bower is an "elite athlete" ... but Heather Gneiting is elite? I really can't figure out your angle, even if you are a Club V homer. At the end of the day, not sure we have the same definitions of "athleticism." I do think Livingston is an elite athlete...but she is complete lost in the back row. And, not sure why. Listen, I absolutely love her, but I kind of think she may be part of the reason our OH2s are struggling. I can't put my finger on it. I would love to know you think are the 2 incoming "true" athletes? If you don't like W. Bower, you are not going to like the Club V setter coming in. They are very similar, but the Club V setter is an inch shorter and I would be surprised at this point if she has the same touch. But, I am so glad BYU is getting her. It is clear to me that BYU recruits these kind of "setters" because of what it knows are the serve receive issues are. BYU needs all the Whitney Bowers and Jhenna Gabriels it can find. I already told you I watched the USD match in person. At no point did anything happen in the match that would lead to the impression that Bower was injured. No trainer from BYU giving her attention at TO's, between sets, or post match. No braces worn by her either! I think you have hit on another point in that Bower or Jhenna are not elite level setters. Texas wouldn't have started Gabriel this season and she knew it. Frankly she lost her spot in the NCAA tourney last year to the Utah transfer who is an elite level setter. Texas got beat last year in large part because Gabriel suffers from the same inability to block great OH's or help with MB's running 3's as Bower does. Bower is elite on defense. She is not elite in accuracy, blocking or decision making as a setter. Furthermore, she isn't taller than the setter coming into BYU in the 2023 class. Bower is 2 inches shorter! Lee is special and she would, IMO, be a starter right now at Opp if she was at BYU. If a school is recruiting setters who can run all over the floor with high footspeed just because of their serving woes, they have more problems than we realize. That is a crazy statement. I will ignore your V comment because you have zero statements or evidence that I am a homer for that club. However, I have pointed out some reasons they didn't win the open national championship! You are probably a coach for them so I will leave it at that. Don't care about that club other than they have 3 BYU recruits in the 23 class so it is unusual. You can talk about elite athletes and vb specific elite athletes. Bower is a good athlete but not elite. BYU needs more great athletes all over their roster. The skills will come as they are taught vb specific technique but you can't teach athletic ability. You can look at the roster of BYU girls and tell immediately who are not over-all athletes, particularly in the back row. Gneiting is elite. She is top 10 in the country at her position. That is how I define an elite vb athlete. Erin isn't elite yet, neither is Bower. They might be top 30-40. Listen, Bower isn't the reason for BYU's struggles and I don't blame her. She has some deficiency's that just happen to gas light the other weaknesses of BYU's roster on the court. She isn't going to get markedly better than she is now, even when she stays for a 5th year. If BYU wants to break through the Sweet 16 with Heather at the helm then they will have to recruit like Shawn did for BYU. The further we get away from Shawn's girls, the more the program is struggling to stay at the level he built. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Oct 28, 2022 2:16:47 GMT -5
Sorry but Abbey Taylor set the pins way better than bower Taylor shouldn't be on the roster. She might set the outsides fairly well but with the current BYU roster Taylor can't do what Bower can in any respect. Taylor wasn't able to set a 5-1 for Wyoming, she wouldn't be successful doing it for BYU. |
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Post by marnvbc2 on Oct 28, 2022 2:28:43 GMT -5
I think he is meaning Mia Lee and Silina Damuni. Lee should be starting, in my opinion, and if anything damuni is the same height, but definitely not shorter than Bower. The younger Bower sister is taller than both of them, but I'm not versed on her play. Either way, they will have a good line for that area. I don't know Damuni's touch point, but I have seen her play and she can jump for sure and supposedely leads her high school team in blocks according to Max Preps? I do agree BYU needs all the Whitney Bowers and Jhenna Gabriels they can get because they are the ones that run after those balls that go all over the creation. Miller coming in will help tremendously I think... I have seen all three of them play and with the right coaching and direction, they will be good for BYU. Now, there is Decker? I haven't seen her play? Is she an athlete? She is taller then these other setters. I do not think Decker is in the same space as was Meyer last year. But, I am guessing because I have seen all of 5 min of Decker setting. It would be nice to see her. The younger Bower sister isn't as athletic as Damuni or W Bower. She is a bit taller than Damuni. Alex Bower is 5'9" and Damuni is 5'8'. Damuni is a higher jumper than A Bower and much more reactive. Although Damumi is class of 23, A Bower is actually older than Damuni. They will be locked in a big battle to replace Whitney in 24. Miller is a better passer than most BYU recruits in the back row over the last 4 years. However, again, the athletic ability is problematic with no great block in front of her. She is an upgrade but I don't think she will be good enough to change the game for BYU. We will see how she does. With Lee on the front row it will help her though. Little can hit and jump but passing at the D-1 level is a question that must be answered. No sure thing in that dept until proven. |
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Post by kk1971 on Oct 28, 2022 8:25:14 GMT -5
@ Mintonetteman--props for spotting W. Bower's limping and injury before the rest of us did. I missed the first part of the match (on TV) and didn't notice the limping while I was watching. But for her to finish that match with a bad knee and the injury happened in the first set, well, lets just say I am an even bigger Whitney fan now. What a gutty performance. And pleasantly surprised at how well Abby Taylor did last night.
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vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 128
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Post by vvv on Oct 28, 2022 9:00:46 GMT -5
Responding to the question about where Lee should start and when. I am not as knowledgeable as Marn or others on the board, but I have seen Lee play lots of times. She jumps out of the gym and knocks those balls straight down. So.... in answer to that question about where she should start? I think I agree with Marn and actually feel she should start at some point anywhere in the front row, for that matter. And yah... It was great to see Taylor get in there and take the reins with Bower injured; she did a great job. I do think Gonzaga did not have great blocks, so playing against a much harder team may have been different. But, hey she did a great job last night.
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vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 128
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Post by vvv on Oct 28, 2022 13:11:42 GMT -5
Yup Whitney is a tough one!! I didn't know she was injured during San Diego game and then saw her last night with a brace. I wonder what the situation will be for the rest of the season?
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Post by kk1971 on Oct 28, 2022 13:49:08 GMT -5
vvv and marnvbc2--pretty sure I see Lee differently--and possibly Little--than you do. BYU traditionally, at least IMO, prizes height and size over quickness for their MB. An Allie Hakes, therefore, is prioritized over a Leilani Dodson. Debate that all you want (and you would have some sympathy from me) but I am pretty sure Lee is coming in as an OH or Opp, and not a MB. And if she comes in as an OH, respectfully she won't touch Livingston, probably Stowell, and even Little, IMO. She doesn't even hit over .300 on the Utah High School scene. She just isn't tall or experienced enough to hit out of system balls consistently well enough to be dangerous--at least not yet. I agree that she can jump out of the gym and pound the ball straight down, but that presupposes a good pass and a good set, and at least a somewhat in rhythm swing. However, she could be an interesting switch off with Callahan next year on the Right Side, and if that is what you mean by start, well then maybe we agree. To be clear, I think Lee is the kind of athlete that BYU often doesn't get but ends up playing against that gives us fits with their quickness and athletic ability. I am way excited to have her as a Cougar, and will have a lot more to say when I do my summer recruiting synopsis. That said, I believe she will be a work in progress and with time can get to where you describe, but definitely don't expect her to start next year. And if she does, it will only be on the right side rotating with Callahan. My .02. And not sure where this bashing of Little is coming from, but you can't convince me she isn't the best outside prospect BYU has had in a long time. She jumps well, has high point of contact, has tremendous savvy and experience, and on a some what mediocre Vista Murrieta team single handedly has carried them to the semi's of the Division 2 playoffs (and won the California state playoff as a frosh while being named Prepvolleyball's Freshman of the year nationally). Is she as good on the back row as she is on the front row? No, she's not, yet. But she does just fine and will hold her own, may be more dangerous out of the back row than Livingston right out of the gates next year on the attack, and should be a 6 rotation player for BYU no later than when Livingston graduates. If she beats out the other 02s and rotates with Livingston from day 1, I won't be surprised. Watch and see.
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vvv
Sophomore
Posts: 128
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Post by vvv on Oct 28, 2022 13:56:05 GMT -5
Hmmmm.... very good points actually. Thanks for sharing. Seems like you do have more insight in some areas and I can see what you mean. Will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Hope we can do well the rest of this season too. Does anyone have any information on Bower's injury and if it is season or just for a bit?
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BYU 2022
Oct 28, 2022 14:34:12 GMT -5
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Post by karma on Oct 28, 2022 14:34:12 GMT -5
Sorry but Abbey Taylor set the pins way better than bower Taylor shouldn't be on the roster. She might set the outsides fairly well but with the current BYU roster Taylor can't do what Bower can in any respect. Taylor wasn't able to set a 5-1 for Wyoming, she wouldn't be successful doing it for BYU. Wtf you didn’t watch the match clearly. Her sets to everyone looked way cleaner than bowers. She played good defense. Served well. Bower is more flashy but she doubles a lot more. (And gets away with it a lot) |
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