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Post by werka on May 19, 2021 18:44:34 GMT -5
start of week 4 I'm pretty sure. See, that is only 8 matches (6 in the round robin and 2 in the finals). I don't understand completely skipping this tournament. Like at all. Besides, it's not like players like Bosko, Egonu and co. would be playing all 8 of those matches once on the roster. Sigh. I would honestly be in support of a new rule where an athlete CANNOT be named to a WCH or OG's roster unless they have STARTED in at least a certain percentage (1/3 or 1/4) of total sets/matches played by their team in the tournaments leading up to said major tournament. You wanna rest, so be it. But, if you want to play in the big tournaments, you simply cannot sit out all matches leading up to the major tournaments. I'm looking at you Maja. She hasn't played a single VNL/WGP this entire quad. She should have to participate in at least some of those matches to be eligible to show off at the big tournaments. How long will fans continue to watch the VNL if all of the stars don't participate? This is NOT a problem on the Men's side. Since the level of pay during international play is the same for both sexes, what do you all think is the difference maker? Inequitable pay during the pro season? Players having children/wanting to spend more time with their families? I don't mean to beat this horse to death, I just want to know why, besides just needing time off? I do think that the VNL could be split up so that the prelims aren't so daunting/long. I would support a two group VNL of 8 and 8 or 10 and 10. One group of 16 is a lot. As long as the teams with the biggest fan bases (USA, BRA, TUR, CHN, JPN, THA) continue to participate, I think the VNL will be fine. Italy and Serbia practically have zero fans outside their country that will buy vbtv passes imo. Lol. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 18:44:39 GMT -5
With relegation off the table, anything is possible. We can make predictions all day long, but until we see these teams in action, it's going to be hard to guess where they will land. Heck, three of the challenger teams placed 6-8 in the 2019 edition. Will they try as hard this time around knowing that they cannot be relegated? I'm thinking nah.
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Post by werka on May 19, 2021 18:45:19 GMT -5
I'm also going to make a stretch here and argue that his young Dutch team could also make some noise. I honestly think that they rode Sloetjes (who was in rapid decline) and other veterans like Dijkema and Balkestein for too long. Plak or Buijs should play at opposite since they both are atrocious at passing but have the biggest arms on the team. I would start Daalderop and M. Jasper on the left and keep Schoot at Libero. That might actually improve their passing enough to be in the conversation. Bongaerts is fully capable of running the offense and I think that Lohuis and either Baijens or de Zwart are fully capable and lethal middles when in system. de Zwart is 6'8"!!!! I wonder how quick she is moving laterally? Anyone ever seen this "de Zwart" and Rettke in the same room? I think a lot for the Dutch depends on how Plak comes back from her time off. Would love to see them get it together again. Are you saying they may be the same person? 🤭🤔 |
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Post by basil on May 19, 2021 18:45:23 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me.... but I think Canada can make some noise. I'm not lumping them in with the weaker teams yet I mean...to be fair to Canada I personally haven't seen Van Ryk touch a volleyball yet so I can't say for certain how good she really is on my own. Like how well would they match up with this Italy B team? |
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Post by basil on May 19, 2021 18:48:42 GMT -5
Sigh. I would honestly be in support of a new rule where an athlete CANNOT be named to a WCH or OG's roster unless they have STARTED in at least a certain percentage (1/3 or 1/4) of total sets/matches played by their team in the tournaments leading up to said major tournament. You wanna rest, so be it. But, if you want to play in the big tournaments, you simply cannot sit out all matches leading up to the major tournaments. I'm looking at you Maja. She hasn't played a single VNL/WGP this entire quad. She should have to participate in at least some of those matches to be eligible to show off at the big tournaments. I honestly don't hate that. Tennis has similar rules. You have to play x-amount of events at the different levels or you're going to be penalized. (but recently, they've loosened the rules for veterans).
I don't think there's another way to get better participation unless you use it as a qualifier for something. (winner gets a seed at WCH or something) but that's treading a fine line (guaranteeing something like that)
Tbh I wouldn't hate it either. As of the VNL in 2019 Larson has 200+ matches with the national team. Once you hit a benchmark like that do whatever you want, but before that, you gotta show up to some of the qualifying tournaments. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 18:49:51 GMT -5
Maybe it's just me.... but I think Canada can make some noise. I'm not lumping them in with the weaker teams yet I mean...to be fair to Canada I personally haven't seen Van Ryk touch a volleyball yet so I can't say for certain how good she really is on my own. Like how well would they match up with this Italy B team? Here is her match against Scandicci. But Van Ryk isn't my concern. My concern is their OH2 and L. that's where their weakpoints are. If Gray's passing is stable, I have higher hopes. Canada will go as Gray's passing goes.
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Post by basil on May 19, 2021 18:52:32 GMT -5
Also, the new FIVB VNL site (as of right now) doesn't have the individual player pages, like the one with the jump touch numbers and how many national team matches they had...bring those back please.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 18:53:34 GMT -5
Sigh. I would honestly be in support of a new rule where an athlete CANNOT be named to a WCH or OG's roster unless they have STARTED in at least a certain percentage (1/3 or 1/4) of total sets/matches played by their team in the tournaments leading up to said major tournament. You wanna rest, so be it. But, if you want to play in the big tournaments, you simply cannot sit out all matches leading up to the major tournaments. I'm looking at you Maja. She hasn't played a single VNL/WGP this entire quad. She should have to participate in at least some of those matches to be eligible to show off at the big tournaments. I honestly don't hate that. Tennis has similar rules. You have to play x-amount of events at the different levels or you're going to be penalized. (but recently, they've loosened the rules for veterans).
I don't think there's another way to get better participation unless you use it as a qualifier for something. (winner gets a seed at WCH or something) but that's treading a fine line (guaranteeing something like that)
If we only use Serbia as an example in 2019 and 2021 (obvs no 2020). We should also only count the VNL prelims (finals are a bonus) and the WCup and the IOQT. 2019 VNL: 15 matches 2019 IOQT: 3 matches (Maja played all three of these) 2019 WC: 11 matches 2021 VNL: 15 matches Total: 44 matches. If we say the rule was to play 1/4 of the total matches, Maja would have to have started in/played (dunno if it would be better to go off of sets or total matches) 11 matches / 33 sets. That isn't that much volleyball compared to the entire season which for some teams is upwards of 60+ matches (China and USA in 2019). I would also go a step further and say that we might include the prelims of the continental competitions but not the elimination rounds. At first, i wanted to EXCLUDE continental tournaments all together but I do think that would throw mud in the eye of the CEV teams. So, in theory, we could include that tournament, which would allow European stars to play in even less VNL matches, but not ignore them completely in back to back editions. The trick is how do you tweak the rules for players like Ana Cristina/Plummer/Fedorovtseva who joined a team late? My head says that the percentage would need to be slightly tweaked or would have to be a percentage of matches from the first tournament they joined a team, so the qualification threshold might have to be significantly lower. I also worry that this could dissuade coaches from adding new talent late in a mini two year cycle. We don't want that I would think. Remember, I'm not saying this should span the entire quad, just every two years leading up to the two majors. I don't really count the World Cup since I expect it to return to being an Olympic qualifying event now that Japan has hosted. |
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Post by chisovnik on May 19, 2021 18:54:01 GMT -5
I'm also going to make a stretch here and argue that his young Dutch team could also make some noise. I honestly think that they rode Sloetjes (who was in rapid decline) and other veterans like Dijkema and Balkestein for too long. Plak or Buijs should play at opposite since they both are atrocious at passing but have the biggest arms on the team. I would start Daalderop and M. Jasper on the left and keep Schoot at Libero. That might actually improve their passing enough to be in the conversation. Bongaerts is fully capable of running the offense and I think that Lohuis and either Baijens or de Zwart are fully capable and lethal middles when in system. de Zwart is 6'8"!!!! I wonder how quick she is moving laterally? Anyone ever seen this "de Zwart" and Rettke in the same room? I think a lot for the Dutch depends on how Plak comes back from her time off. Would love to see them get it together again. If the Dutch are going to rely on Plak for success at this tournament, they’re not going to do well. |
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Post by n00b on May 19, 2021 18:56:33 GMT -5
With relegation off the table, anything is possible. We can make predictions all day long, but until we see these teams in action, it's going to be hard to guess where they will land. Heck, three of the challenger teams placed 6-8 in the 2019 edition. Will they try as hard this time around knowing that they cannot be relegated? I'm thinking nah. Challenger Teams are going to be in the bubble zone for World Championship qualification though. THAT is where the new ranking system is going to matter (not for top teams). I believe WCH qualification is Netherlands, Poland, Serbia, then top 2 from each continental championship this fall, then the next 11 in the world rankings. That probably takes you to #22 in the rankings. Canada and Belgium probably shouldn't tank here or it could get dicey. |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 18:57:42 GMT -5
I honestly don't hate that. Tennis has similar rules. You have to play x-amount of events at the different levels or you're going to be penalized. (but recently, they've loosened the rules for veterans).
I don't think there's another way to get better participation unless you use it as a qualifier for something. (winner gets a seed at WCH or something) but that's treading a fine line (guaranteeing something like that)
Tbh I wouldn't hate it either. As of the VNL in 2019 Larson has 200+ matches with the national team. Once you hit a benchmark like that do whatever you want, but before that, you gotta show up to some of the qualifying tournaments. Nope. Larson put in the work all quad in each tournament except for the 2017 WGP. I am not considering total matches played over their entire career. I think developing youth should be one of the crucial factors of the VNL, but the stars should have to also play a certain percentage of matches in tournaments leading up to the majors. That way if a player is riddled with injuries like Natalia, there is ample time to get those games in so that she may be considered for the major rosters. That is why you get 30 matches across two editions of the VNL in order to pass the qualification percentage. This is why if a team makes the finals, all of those games are bonuses. I would also include the Grand Champions Cup and the IOQT (assuming both return in the LA Quad). |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 18:59:33 GMT -5
With relegation off the table, anything is possible. We can make predictions all day long, but until we see these teams in action, it's going to be hard to guess where they will land. Heck, three of the challenger teams placed 6-8 in the 2019 edition. Will they try as hard this time around knowing that they cannot be relegated? I'm thinking nah. Challenger Teams are going to be in the bubble zone for World Championship qualification though. THAT is where the new ranking system is going to matter (not for top teams). I believe WCH qualification is Netherlands, Poland, Serbia, then top 2 from each continental championship this fall, then the next 11 in the world rankings. That probably takes you to #22 in the rankings. Canada and Belgium probably shouldn't tank here or it could get dicey. That's awesome. I appreciate your analysis on this. I hadn't given it too much thought yet. The more I learn about this new system, the more I think it makes things fun. Mainly because I don't quite know how to do the math/don't have to since the rankings will change literally after every single match and tournament. I dig it. |
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Post by basil on May 19, 2021 18:59:38 GMT -5
Anyone ever seen this "de Zwart" and Rettke in the same room? I think a lot for the Dutch depends on how Plak comes back from her time off. Would love to see them get it together again. If the Dutch are going to rely on Plak for success at this tournament, they’re not going to do well. If they get solid production out of her as well as good production from the OHs? I'm not saying she has to put them on her back, but they just need her to be good so their OHs and MBs can be good too. |
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Post by ironhammer on May 19, 2021 19:02:21 GMT -5
Well...we'll find out whether you are right with that prediction soon enough.  I'm always right, so we won't have to wait long  Hehehe, we'll know soon enough, either way. |
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Post by basil on May 19, 2021 19:06:14 GMT -5
I mean...to be fair to Canada I personally haven't seen Van Ryk touch a volleyball yet so I can't say for certain how good she really is on my own. Like how well would they match up with this Italy B team? Here is her match against Scandicci. But Van Ryk isn't my concern. My concern is their OH2 and L. that's where their weakpoints are. If Gray's passing is stable, I have higher hopes. Canada will go as Gray's passing goes.
Wait she's pretty good lol. She's coming to THY next season? Can't wait to watch Carlini set her. |
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