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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:13:28 GMT -5
I think South Korea is going to have the most problems. They lost four of their starters, the twins (S and OH), Kim Heejin (OPP) to injury, and Kim Haeran (L) to pregnancy. And to top all that Lavarini was only able to join the team in person for training last week because he had to quarantine for 2 weeks. KYK is going to used sparingly in order to not overwork her before Tokyo. Other than the starters I'm not familiar with the other players, but there's not much depth to keep up even with the likes of European B/C teams. Kim Heejin is injured too?! Will she be back for Tokyo? |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:20:19 GMT -5
start of week 4 I'm pretty sure. See, that is only 8 matches (6 in the round robin and 2 in the finals). I don't understand completely skipping this tournament. Like at all. Besides, it's not like players like Bosko, Egonu and co. would be playing all 8 of those matches once on the roster. Sigh. I would honestly be in support of a new rule where an athlete CANNOT be named to a WCH or OG's roster unless they have STARTED in at least a certain percentage (1/3 or 1/4) of total sets/matches played by their team in the tournaments leading up to said major tournament. You wanna rest, so be it. But, if you want to play in the big tournaments, you simply cannot sit out all matches leading up to the major tournaments.
I'm looking at you Maja. She hasn't played a single VNL/WGP this entire quad. She should have to participate in at least some of those matches to be eligible to show off at the big tournaments. How long will fans continue to watch the VNL if all of the stars don't participate? This is NOT a problem on the Men's side. Since the level of pay during international play is the same for both sexes, what do you all think is the difference maker? Inequitable pay during the pro season? Players having children/wanting to spend more time with their families? I don't mean to beat this horse to death, I just want to know why, besides just needing time off? I do think that the VNL could be split up so that the prelims aren't so daunting/long. I would support a two group VNL of 8 and 8 or 10 and 10. One group of 16 is a lot. I have an alternative suggestion. Take the top rated team from each confederation, and take the hosts, then take the next 6 top rated teams for Olympics.
For World Championships, take the defending WCh, hosts, and allocate the rest based on ranking entirely. There will be no option to sit out VNL. If Serbia drops too much, they don't go to Olympics, simple as that.
I don't like Maja either, but for different reasons.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:21:03 GMT -5
I think South Korea is going to have the most problems. They lost four of their starters, the twins (S and OH), Kim Heejin (OPP) to injury, and Kim Haeran (L) to pregnancy. And to top all that Lavarini was only able to join the team in person for training last week because he had to quarantine for 2 weeks. KYK is going to used sparingly in order to not overwork her before Tokyo. Other than the starters I'm not familiar with the other players, but there's not much depth to keep up even with the likes of European B/C teams. Kim Heejin is injured too?! Will she be back for Tokyo? very unlikely. Pool A looks like it's all decided (SRB-BRA-JPN-DOM) |
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Post by alohavball on May 19, 2021 19:24:43 GMT -5
I think South Korea is going to have the most problems. They lost four of their starters, the twins (S and OH), Kim Heejin (OPP) to injury, and Kim Haeran (L) to pregnancy. And to top all that Lavarini was only able to join the team in person for training last week because he had to quarantine for 2 weeks. KYK is going to used sparingly in order to not overwork her before Tokyo. Other than the starters I'm not familiar with the other players, but there's not much depth to keep up even with the likes of European B/C teams. Kim Heejin is injured too?! Will she be back for Tokyo? She felt pain in her left knee and had surgery to remove bone fragments there. Whether she is available for Tokyo will be dependent on her recovery process which is around 45 days. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:26:16 GMT -5
I honestly don't hate that. Tennis has similar rules. You have to play x-amount of events at the different levels or you're going to be penalized. (but recently, they've loosened the rules for veterans).
I don't think there's another way to get better participation unless you use it as a qualifier for something. (winner gets a seed at WCH or something) but that's treading a fine line (guaranteeing something like that)
If we only use Serbia as an example in 2019 and 2021 (obvs no 2020). We should also only count the VNL prelims (finals are a bonus) and the WCup and the IOQT. 2019 VNL: 15 matches 2019 IOQT: 3 matches (Maja played all three of these) 2019 WC: 11 matches 2021 VNL: 15 matches Total: 44 matches. If we say the rule was to play 1/4 of the total matches, Maja would have to have started in/played (dunno if it would be better to go off of sets or total matches) 11 matches / 33 sets. That isn't that much volleyball compared to the entire season which for some teams is upwards of 60+ matches (China and USA in 2019). I would also go a step further and say that we might include the prelims of the continental competitions but not the elimination rounds. At first, i wanted to EXCLUDE continental tournaments all together but I do think that would throw mud in the eye of the CEV teams. So, in theory, we could include that tournament, which would allow European stars to play in even less VNL matches, but not ignore them completely in back to back editions. The trick is how do you tweak the rules for players like Ana Cristina/Plummer/Fedorovtseva who joined a team late? My head says that the percentage would need to be slightly tweaked or would have to be a percentage of matches from the first tournament they joined a team, so the qualification threshold might have to be significantly lower. I also worry that this could dissuade coaches from adding new talent late in a mini two year cycle. We don't want that I would think. Remember, I'm not saying this should span the entire quad, just every two years leading up to the two majors. I don't really count the World Cup since I expect it to return to being an Olympic qualifying event now that Japan has hosted. nah, screw that, Europe is just another continent like Asia or North America...
If they think they're so good at volleyball maybe they should win an olympics first (USSR doesn't count)
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:26:54 GMT -5
South Korea's only hope is *somehow* the twins come back.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:28:46 GMT -5
If we only use Serbia as an example in 2019 and 2021 (obvs no 2020). We should also only count the VNL prelims (finals are a bonus) and the WCup and the IOQT. 2019 VNL: 15 matches 2019 IOQT: 3 matches (Maja played all three of these) 2019 WC: 11 matches 2021 VNL: 15 matches Total: 44 matches. If we say the rule was to play 1/4 of the total matches, Maja would have to have started in/played (dunno if it would be better to go off of sets or total matches) 11 matches / 33 sets. That isn't that much volleyball compared to the entire season which for some teams is upwards of 60+ matches (China and USA in 2019). I would also go a step further and say that we might include the prelims of the continental competitions but not the elimination rounds. At first, i wanted to EXCLUDE continental tournaments all together but I do think that would throw mud in the eye of the CEV teams. So, in theory, we could include that tournament, which would allow European stars to play in even less VNL matches, but not ignore them completely in back to back editions. The trick is how do you tweak the rules for players like Ana Cristina/Plummer/Fedorovtseva who joined a team late? My head says that the percentage would need to be slightly tweaked or would have to be a percentage of matches from the first tournament they joined a team, so the qualification threshold might have to be significantly lower. I also worry that this could dissuade coaches from adding new talent late in a mini two year cycle. We don't want that I would think. Remember, I'm not saying this should span the entire quad, just every two years leading up to the two majors. I don't really count the World Cup since I expect it to return to being an Olympic qualifying event now that Japan has hosted. nah, screw that, Europe is just another continent like Asia or North America...
If they think they're so good at volleyball maybe they should win an olympics first (USSR doesn't count)
the shaaaaaade |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:30:03 GMT -5
nah, screw that, Europe is just another continent like Asia or North America...
If they think they're so good at volleyball maybe they should win an olympics first (USSR doesn't count)
the shaaaaaade tired of them belittling the world cup and thinking they're the best lol |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:30:08 GMT -5
See, that is only 8 matches (6 in the round robin and 2 in the finals). I don't understand completely skipping this tournament. Like at all. Besides, it's not like players like Bosko, Egonu and co. would be playing all 8 of those matches once on the roster. Sigh. I would honestly be in support of a new rule where an athlete CANNOT be named to a WCH or OG's roster unless they have STARTED in at least a certain percentage (1/3 or 1/4) of total sets/matches played by their team in the tournaments leading up to said major tournament. You wanna rest, so be it. But, if you want to play in the big tournaments, you simply cannot sit out all matches leading up to the major tournaments.
I'm looking at you Maja. She hasn't played a single VNL/WGP this entire quad. She should have to participate in at least some of those matches to be eligible to show off at the big tournaments. How long will fans continue to watch the VNL if all of the stars don't participate? This is NOT a problem on the Men's side. Since the level of pay during international play is the same for both sexes, what do you all think is the difference maker? Inequitable pay during the pro season? Players having children/wanting to spend more time with their families? I don't mean to beat this horse to death, I just want to know why, besides just needing time off? I do think that the VNL could be split up so that the prelims aren't so daunting/long. I would support a two group VNL of 8 and 8 or 10 and 10. One group of 16 is a lot. I have an alternative suggestion. Take the top rated team from each confederation, and take the hosts, then take the next 6 top rated teams for Olympics.
For World Championships, take the defending WCh, hosts, and allocate the rest based on ranking entirely. There will be no option to sit out VNL. If Serbia drops too much, they don't go to Olympics, simple as that.
I don't like Maja either, but for different reasons.
I love Maja. She is just the glaring example I was using. Wolosz could be in that same boat soon if Poland continues to trend up. FIVB is never going to just use the WR to qualify teams. They will continue to organize qualification tournaments, as they should. THEN use the WR points to certify the remaining teams. I am in support of what ever compromise the FIVB and the athletes work out. I do think that a shorter international season is something that the new athletes board, that Ognjenović and Larson both sit on, will advocate for. I just think that the FIVB should implement some sort of participation percentage quota so that we the fans, don't see huge drops in competition levels between tournaments. I think there is a sweet spot to be found. Lots of conversations need to be happening. |
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Post by n00b on May 19, 2021 19:31:35 GMT -5
See, that is only 8 matches (6 in the round robin and 2 in the finals). I don't understand completely skipping this tournament. Like at all. Besides, it's not like players like Bosko, Egonu and co. would be playing all 8 of those matches once on the roster. Sigh. I would honestly be in support of a new rule where an athlete CANNOT be named to a WCH or OG's roster unless they have STARTED in at least a certain percentage (1/3 or 1/4) of total sets/matches played by their team in the tournaments leading up to said major tournament. You wanna rest, so be it. But, if you want to play in the big tournaments, you simply cannot sit out all matches leading up to the major tournaments.
I'm looking at you Maja. She hasn't played a single VNL/WGP this entire quad. She should have to participate in at least some of those matches to be eligible to show off at the big tournaments. How long will fans continue to watch the VNL if all of the stars don't participate? This is NOT a problem on the Men's side. Since the level of pay during international play is the same for both sexes, what do you all think is the difference maker? Inequitable pay during the pro season? Players having children/wanting to spend more time with their families? I don't mean to beat this horse to death, I just want to know why, besides just needing time off? I do think that the VNL could be split up so that the prelims aren't so daunting/long. I would support a two group VNL of 8 and 8 or 10 and 10. One group of 16 is a lot. I have an alternative suggestion. Take the top rated team from each confederation, and take the hosts, then take the next 6 top rated teams for Olympics.
For World Championships, take the defending WCh, hosts, and allocate the rest based on ranking entirely. There will be no option to sit out VNL. If Serbia drops too much, they don't go to Olympics, simple as that.
I don't like Maja either, but for different reasons.
Nah. Why get rid of tournaments that people DO care about (Olympic qualifiers) to try to prop up an event that people don't care about? |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:32:26 GMT -5
I'm loving chatting about this with you all. I could do this all day. haha
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:34:09 GMT -5
I have an alternative suggestion. Take the top rated team from each confederation, and take the hosts, then take the next 6 top rated teams for Olympics.
For World Championships, take the defending WCh, hosts, and allocate the rest based on ranking entirely. There will be no option to sit out VNL. If Serbia drops too much, they don't go to Olympics, simple as that.
I don't like Maja either, but for different reasons.
Nah. Why get rid of tournaments that people DO care about (Olympic qualifiers) to try to prop up an event that people don't care about? Then every tournament is going to be part of an olympic qualifier. The results will be cumulative. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:37:38 GMT -5
I have an alternative suggestion. Take the top rated team from each confederation, and take the hosts, then take the next 6 top rated teams for Olympics.
For World Championships, take the defending WCh, hosts, and allocate the rest based on ranking entirely. There will be no option to sit out VNL. If Serbia drops too much, they don't go to Olympics, simple as that.
I don't like Maja either, but for different reasons.
I love Maja. She is just the glaring example I was using. Wolosz could be in that same boat soon if Poland continues to trend up. FIVB is never going to just use the WR to qualify teams. They will continue to organize qualification tournaments, as they should. THEN use the WR points to certify the remaining teams. I am in support of what ever compromise the FIVB and the athletes work out. I do think that a shorter international season is something that the new athletes board, that Ognjenović and Larson both sit on, will advocate for. I just think that the FIVB should implement some sort of participation percentage quota so that we the fans, don't see huge drops in competition levels between tournaments. I think there is a sweet spot to be found. Lots of conversations need to be happening. That applies to the entire Serbian A team. What about China in 2019 when they played their starters for 4 weeks (and went 11-1, eventually finishing 12-3 in the prelims) and sent a A-/B+ team to the VNL finals? Should the finals count for more?
I definitely cannot speak from a neutral perspective on this, but IMO it's one thing when China sends a B team that is still competitive to the VNL finals and an entirely different thing when Serbia/Italy send C teams that we've never heard of internationally.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:38:51 GMT -5
Can we all agree that the FIVB needs to hold the World Cup BEFORE any IOQT or COQT this time around? 2019 was bassackwards.
2023 needs to be VNL, WCup (2 olympic slots), COQT (5 olympic slots) then IOQT (4 final olympic slots) + 1 host.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:42:59 GMT -5
Can we all agree that the FIVB needs to hold the World Cup BEFORE any IOQT or COQT this time around? 2019 was bassackwards. 2023 needs to be VNL, WCup (2 olympic slots), COQT (5 olympic slots) then IOQT (4 final olympic slots) + 1 host. I heard there will not be a WCup. At least, not the current format.
There is only 8 days for the "World Cup". That's at most 8 teams.
Somehow, the Olympic qualifiers are held concurrently (wtf?!)
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