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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:38:51 GMT -5
Can we all agree that the FIVB needs to hold the World Cup BEFORE any IOQT or COQT this time around? 2019 was bassackwards.
2023 needs to be VNL, WCup (2 olympic slots), COQT (5 olympic slots) then IOQT (4 final olympic slots) + 1 host.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:42:59 GMT -5
Can we all agree that the FIVB needs to hold the World Cup BEFORE any IOQT or COQT this time around? 2019 was bassackwards. 2023 needs to be VNL, WCup (2 olympic slots), COQT (5 olympic slots) then IOQT (4 final olympic slots) + 1 host. I heard there will not be a WCup. At least, not the current format.
There is only 8 days for the "World Cup". That's at most 8 teams.
Somehow, the Olympic qualifiers are held concurrently (wtf?!)
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Post by basil on May 19, 2021 19:43:03 GMT -5
my brain hurts...it's Wednesday y'all.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:45:35 GMT -5
And if the world cup does have the best 8 teams with only 2 qualifiers, there'd be protests since there are much weaker olympic qualifying pools held concurrently.
Unfortunately the reality is that compared to the Olympics, every other competition is practically worthless.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:47:23 GMT -5
my brain hurts...it's Wednesday y'all. It's because there's no volleyball to watch |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:48:17 GMT -5
Can we all agree that the FIVB needs to hold the World Cup BEFORE any IOQT or COQT this time around? 2019 was bassackwards. 2023 needs to be VNL, WCup (2 olympic slots), COQT (5 olympic slots) then IOQT (4 final olympic slots) + 1 host. I heard there will not be a WCup. At least, not the current format.
There is only 8 days for the "World Cup". That's at most 8 teams.
Somehow, the Olympic qualifiers are held concurrently (wtf?!)
I read about this somewhere (i'll have to double check) but if memory serves me right.... it's going to be "World Cup" in name only. It'll be the OQT that Japan is involved in. let me look into it |
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 19:48:17 GMT -5
I love Maja. She is just the glaring example I was using. Wolosz could be in that same boat soon if Poland continues to trend up. FIVB is never going to just use the WR to qualify teams. They will continue to organize qualification tournaments, as they should. THEN use the WR points to certify the remaining teams. I am in support of what ever compromise the FIVB and the athletes work out. I do think that a shorter international season is something that the new athletes board, that Ognjenović and Larson both sit on, will advocate for. I just think that the FIVB should implement some sort of participation percentage quota so that we the fans, don't see huge drops in competition levels between tournaments. I think there is a sweet spot to be found. Lots of conversations need to be happening. That applies to the entire Serbian A team. What about China in 2019 when they played their starters for 4 weeks (and went 11-1, eventually finishing 12-3 in the prelims) and sent a A-/B+ team to the VNL finals? Should the finals count for more?
I definitely cannot speak from a neutral perspective on this, but IMO it's one thing when China sends a B team that is still competitive to the VNL finals and an entirely different thing when Serbia/Italy send C teams that we've never heard of internationally.
I agree. I kind of wish that more teams would send more developing players in the beginning of the VNL and then add in their vets/starters in the later weeks/for the finals. I wouldn't argue at all if that were the tournament norm. I do agree that I am a little tired of the CEV C/D teams getting blown away. They actually play less ball then NORCECA and AVC teams do during the international season. The only difference is is that China and USA probably have the most depth and can send B/C teams to the continental tournaments and still win where as CEV cannot skip the European Champs. This is why it baffles me that people on here argue that the CEV teams need breaks when the American players are also participating in the pro leagues over there playing just as much ball and then playing arguably longer international seasons with quite a few more matches. Look at the Dominican Republic for example. Their same core group of players played close to 60 matches in 2019. Serbia, the Netherlands and Russia played the VNL, WCup and EuroChamps. Serbia played the most with 35 matches. The other two only two less at 33. Italy played WAY fewer since they were not at the WCup. That is why they played more of their A team in the 2019 VNL. The math doesn't add up to me. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:50:33 GMT -5
I heard there will not be a WCup. At least, not the current format.
There is only 8 days for the "World Cup". That's at most 8 teams.
Somehow, the Olympic qualifiers are held concurrently (wtf?!)
I read about this somewhere (i'll have to double check) but if memory serves me right.... it's going to be "World Cup" in name only. It'll be the OQT that Japan is involved in. let me look into it Japan is nice and all that but that's such nonsense... |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 19:53:26 GMT -5
That applies to the entire Serbian A team. What about China in 2019 when they played their starters for 4 weeks (and went 11-1, eventually finishing 12-3 in the prelims) and sent a A-/B+ team to the VNL finals? Should the finals count for more?
I definitely cannot speak from a neutral perspective on this, but IMO it's one thing when China sends a B team that is still competitive to the VNL finals and an entirely different thing when Serbia/Italy send C teams that we've never heard of internationally.
I agree. I kind of wish that more teams would send more developing players in the beginning of the VNL and then add in their vets/starters in the later weeks/for the finals. I wouldn't argue at all if that were the tournament norm. I do agree that I am a little tired of the CEV C/D teams getting blown away. They actually play less ball then NORCECA and AVC teams do during the international season. The only difference is is that China and USA probably have the most depth and can send B/C teams to the continental tournaments and still win where as CEV cannot skip the European Champs. This is why it baffles me that people on here argue that the CEV teams need breaks when the American players are also participating in the pro leagues over there playing just as much ball and then playing arguably longer international seasons with quite a few more matches. Look at the Dominican Republic for example. Their same core group of players played close to 60 matches in 2019. Serbia, the Netherlands and Russia played the VNL, WCup and EuroChamps. Serbia played the most with 35 matches. The other two only two less at 33. Italy played WAY fewer since they were not at the WCup. That is why they played more of their A team in the 2019 VNL. The math doesn't add up to me. now that I think of it you're right. Americans usually play in the European leagues too, so it should in theory apply equally.
Of course, one may wish to argue that Americans taking VNL too seriously was the cause of a 5th place finish in the 18 WCh, but I don't think that's the case.
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Post by n00b on May 19, 2021 19:58:34 GMT -5
I heard there will not be a WCup. At least, not the current format.
There is only 8 days for the "World Cup". That's at most 8 teams. Somehow, the Olympic qualifiers are held concurrently (wtf?!)
I read about this somewhere (i'll have to double check) but if memory serves me right.... it's going to be "World Cup" in name only. It'll be the OQT that Japan is involved in. let me look into it 2019 was the exception. World Cup typically doubles as the first Olympic qualifier. It just wasn't the case in 2019 because Japan always hosts, but weren't allowed to participate in a qualification tournament since they were already in as Olympic hosts. Looks like it's been an Olympic qualifier since 1991. That 2023 calendar is actually 9 days, not 8. You could hold a 12-team event with the same format as the Olympics over 9 days. |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 20:00:49 GMT -5
Can we all agree that the FIVB needs to hold the World Cup BEFORE any IOQT or COQT this time around? 2019 was bassackwards. 2023 needs to be VNL, WCup (2 olympic slots), COQT (5 olympic slots) then IOQT (4 final olympic slots) + 1 host. From the calendar it looks like either
WC + (2x) IOQTs (8 teams, 2 advance, 6 total), then COQT (5 total) + France.
or
WC + (1x) IOQTs (8 teams, 3 advance, 6 total), then COQT (5 total) + France.
either would be nonsense imo. Imagine picking the best 2 or 3 from China, USA, Serbia, Italy, Russia, Turkey, Japan, Brazil in the WC (that is brutal!!) and the "IOQT" is filled with much weaker teams... or not allowing the best teams in the world to compete for the world cup title.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 20:01:59 GMT -5
I read about this somewhere (i'll have to double check) but if memory serves me right.... it's going to be "World Cup" in name only. It'll be the OQT that Japan is involved in. let me look into it Japan is nice and all that but that's such nonsense... Yea, I'm not 100% about it. We don't have clarification from the FIVB.
What we do know, is the World Cup as we knew it, is over. It's going to be called the World Cup because FIVB has contractual obligations with Japan. But in practice, its just an OQT. (my comments in the other thread expand, but we don't have citation from the FIVB on that yet)
But in those comments, rankings take the place of continental qualifying tournaments.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2021 20:03:09 GMT -5
I read about this somewhere (i'll have to double check) but if memory serves me right.... it's going to be "World Cup" in name only. It'll be the OQT that Japan is involved in. let me look into it 2019 was the exception. World Cup typically doubles as the first Olympic qualifier. It just wasn't the case in 2019 because Japan always hosts, but weren't allowed to participate in a qualification tournament since they were already in as Olympic hosts. Looks like it's been an Olympic qualifier since 1991. That 2023 calendar is actually 9 days, not 8. You could hold a 12-team event with the same format as the Olympics over 9 days. Oh hell yeah. I would LOVE to see a copy and paste (2 pools of 6 then single elimination bracket style) Olympic qualifier. Would only one team qualify though? or would the three medalists? |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 20:04:41 GMT -5
2019 was the exception. World Cup typically doubles as the first Olympic qualifier. It just wasn't the case in 2019 because Japan always hosts, but weren't allowed to participate in a qualification tournament since they were already in as Olympic hosts. Looks like it's been an Olympic qualifier since 1991. That 2023 calendar is actually 9 days, not 8. You could hold a 12-team event with the same format as the Olympics over 9 days. Oh hell yeah. I would LOVE to see a copy and paste (2 pools of 6 then single elimination bracket style) Olympic qualifier. Would only one team qualify though? or would the three medalists? three would be weird since then the semifinals becomes the "most important" match.
I honestly prefer one... but realistically it'll probably have to be two or three.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on May 19, 2021 20:05:37 GMT -5
Japan is nice and all that but that's such nonsense... Yea, I'm not 100% about it. We don't have clarification from the FIVB.
What we do know, is the World Cup as we knew it, is over. It's going to be called the World Cup because FIVB has contractual obligations with Japan. But in practice, its just an OQT. (my comments in the other thread expand, but we don't have citation from the FIVB on that yet)
But in those comments, rankings take the place of continental qualifying tournaments.
still didn't understand why the original qualification method of taking the top 2 or 3 from the world cup (2011, 2015) wasn't good tbh. |
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