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Post by guest2 on Jul 26, 2021 16:14:02 GMT -5
You sidestepped the question about whether the curve makes you slower or faster. I'd also suggest that since he very rarely ran it, the odds of him posting his best time in a timed race, seems unlikely. It might make it faster or slower depending on how he took the curve and where it fell. I brought it up mainly because you were saying it was the same track, and it wasn’t. I think you’re just really set on this line of thinking. He, in close to peak form, with wind at the absolute limit of legality (literally), was still far off - in relative terms - a top 100 time. If he were competitive at the highest level, he would have competed it at the highest level. Or USATF would have put him as one of the 5-6 in the relay pool and he would have gotten another medal without having to work through heats. Isn't the curve always in the same place for major events? It depends on what you mean by "competitive at the highest level." Do I think there was a situation in which he could have won the 100 at a major event? No, but I also think that is true of much of the field in the Olympic 100m semis or even final. But if you ask, if he were in the Olympic 100m final in either of the years he won the 400, would he have been a sure bet to finish last or even in the last 2-3, I would say no. How do I know that? Because at the same event, facing the disadvantaged of a curved track, he beat the times of those finishers. Also in that race, at the 10 second mark, he appeared to be ahead of Ato Bolden, who won the bronze in the 100m
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Post by bbg95 on Jul 26, 2021 16:26:58 GMT -5
It might make it faster or slower depending on how he took the curve and where it fell. I brought it up mainly because you were saying it was the same track, and it wasn’t. I think you’re just really set on this line of thinking. He, in close to peak form, with wind at the absolute limit of legality (literally), was still far off - in relative terms - a top 100 time. If he were competitive at the highest level, he would have competed it at the highest level. Or USATF would have put him as one of the 5-6 in the relay pool and he would have gotten another medal without having to work through heats. Isn't the curve always in the same place for major events? It depends on what you mean by "competitive at the highest level." Do I think there was a situation in which he could have won the 100 at a major event? No, but I also think that is true of much of the field in the Olympic 100m semis or even final. But if you ask, if he were in the Olympic 100m final in either of the years he won the 400, would he have been a sure bet to finish last or even in the last 2-3, I would say no. How do I know that? Because at the same event, facing the disadvantaged of a curved track, he beat the times of those finishers. Also in that race, at the 10 second mark, he appeared to be ahead of Ato Bolden, who won the bronze in the 100m Johnson was renowned for running an exceptional curve, so that likely explains why he could be ahead of Bolden at 100m. Boldon (and everyone else in the race) was also running the first 100m on the curve. That doesn't tell us that Johnson would be competitive at the 100 on the straightaway. Edit: I agree with everything c4 said below. You really can't compare those performances to each other.
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Swimming
Jul 26, 2021 16:31:43 GMT -5
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Post by c4ndlelight on Jul 26, 2021 16:31:43 GMT -5
It might make it faster or slower depending on how he took the curve and where it fell. I brought it up mainly because you were saying it was the same track, and it wasn’t. I think you’re just really set on this line of thinking. He, in close to peak form, with wind at the absolute limit of legality (literally), was still far off - in relative terms - a top 100 time. If he were competitive at the highest level, he would have competed it at the highest level. Or USATF would have put him as one of the 5-6 in the relay pool and he would have gotten another medal without having to work through heats. Isn't the curve always in the same place for major events? It depends on what you mean by "competitive at the highest level." Do I think there was a situation in which he could have won the 100 at a major event? No, but I also think that is true of much of the field in the Olympic 100m semis or even final. But if you ask, if he were in the Olympic 100m final in either of the years he won the 400, would he have been a sure bet to finish last or even in the last 2-3, I would say no. How do I know that? Because at the same event, facing the disadvantaged of a curved track, he beat the times of those finishers. Also in that race, at the 10 second mark, he appeared to be ahead of Ato Bolden, who won the bronze in the 100m You cannot extrapolate times on different sections of a track on different days in different conditions (wind, heat, humidity) with the level of precision you are trying to do, notwithstanding that 100 split wasn’t a competitive 100 time. Bolton ran a 9.90 100 to win bronze that year. If he ran that pace in the 100, he doesn’t have a bronze. The time you’re talking about Johnson running to place in the final wouldn’t have even qualified for the final - that’s the race to race differential you can see. Boldon probably didn’t take the curve well or got out of the blocks poorly, or maybe he was worried about stamina and tried to pace himself. Taking that one example just shows you’re not thinking about track the right way. You’ve said you have a swimming background and you’re applying logic that sounds like it works in the pool To a situation where it doesn’t. I’m not responding again
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Post by sonofdogman on Jul 26, 2021 16:46:27 GMT -5
This is the swimming thread on a volleyball message board. It's way off track.
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Post by guest2 on Jul 26, 2021 16:49:48 GMT -5
Isn't the curve always in the same place for major events? It depends on what you mean by "competitive at the highest level." Do I think there was a situation in which he could have won the 100 at a major event? No, but I also think that is true of much of the field in the Olympic 100m semis or even final. But if you ask, if he were in the Olympic 100m final in either of the years he won the 400, would he have been a sure bet to finish last or even in the last 2-3, I would say no. How do I know that? Because at the same event, facing the disadvantaged of a curved track, he beat the times of those finishers. Also in that race, at the 10 second mark, he appeared to be ahead of Ato Bolden, who won the bronze in the 100m You cannot extrapolate times on different sections of a track on different days in different conditions (wind, heat, humidity) with the level of precision you are trying to do, notwithstanding that 100 split wasn’t a competitive 100 time. Bolton ran a 9.90 100 to win bronze that year. He probably didn’t take the curve well or got out of the blocks poorly, or maybe he was worried about stamina and tried to pace himself. Taking that one example just shows you’re not thinking about track the right way. You’ve said you have a swimming background and you’re applying logic that sounds like it works in the pool To a situation where it doesn’t. I’m not responding again Boldon ran a 19.80. His best ever time was 19.77. I think its fair to conclude he didn't get a terrible start, screw up the curve, or make some other huge mistake. BTW Johnson was also ahead of Frankie Fredericks after 100 meters. Fredericks took the silver in the 100. Did he also have a bad start and screw up the curve? And Mike Marsh, 5th in the 100. Did you even bother watching the race? Its on Youtube You also still haven't explained why its unfair to extrapolate that someone on a slower path - a curve - could run the same speed on a better path - a straight line.
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Swimming
Jul 26, 2021 20:46:11 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 26, 2021 20:46:11 GMT -5
Women’s 200m Semis:
Titmus going into the finals as the first seed Siobhan Haughey as second Ledecky as third
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Post by huskersrule95 on Jul 26, 2021 20:56:16 GMT -5
Reagan Smith gets the bronze in the 100m backstroke
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Swimming
Jul 26, 2021 21:05:24 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 26, 2021 21:05:24 GMT -5
Men’s 100m Back
A lot of pressure on Ryan Murphy’s back, literally to keep US’s 7 straight streak.
But he’s out touched by two Russians.
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Swimming
Jul 26, 2021 21:20:18 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 26, 2021 21:20:18 GMT -5
How many times does Lilly King have to slap her thighs before they finally let them in the water 😏
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Swimming
Jul 26, 2021 21:26:31 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 26, 2021 21:26:31 GMT -5
Women’s 100m Backstroke
Lilly King unable to defend her title but Lydia Jacoby (the first from Alaska to make the US Olympics team) win the gold. Lilly King with the bronze.
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Swimming
Jul 27, 2021 20:49:09 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 27, 2021 20:49:09 GMT -5
Women’s 200m Free
Titmus wins again. Hong Kong gets it’s first swimming medal, a silver in Haughey. Penny Olesiak 3rd.
Ledecky in 5th…
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Post by huskersrule95 on Jul 27, 2021 20:50:09 GMT -5
Women’s 200m Free Titmus wins again. Hong Kong gets it’s first swimming medal, a silver in Haughey. Penny Olesiak 3rd. Ledecky in 5th… Ledecky just didn’t have it, behind the entire way
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Swimming
Jul 27, 2021 20:52:20 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 27, 2021 20:52:20 GMT -5
Women’s 200m Free Titmus wins again. Hong Kong gets it’s first swimming medal, a silver in Haughey. Penny Olesiak 3rd. Ledecky in 5th… Ledecky just didn’t have it, behind the entire way And an hour later, she has the 1500m free. USA swimming hasn’t had a very good day at the pool since Day 1 😒
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Post by huskersrule95 on Jul 27, 2021 20:59:40 GMT -5
Ledecky just didn’t have it, behind the entire way And an hour later, she has the 1500m free. USA swimming hasn’t had a very good day at the pool since Day 1 😒 I think Ledecky will be good in that one. USA definitely not been doing as good as expected.
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Swimming
Jul 27, 2021 21:03:08 GMT -5
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Post by tamz on Jul 27, 2021 21:03:08 GMT -5
And an hour later, she has the 1500m free. USA swimming hasn’t had a very good day at the pool since Day 1 😒 I think Ledecky will be good in that one. USA definitely not been doing as good as expected. I miss Phelps. Too bad he’s in Japan commentating and not in the pool swimming. The 200m butterfly that just finished — US Gunnar Bentz finished 7th.
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