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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jul 28, 2021 22:00:53 GMT -5
honestly, if it's a mutual-exclusive choice between - group stage exit - qf loss to Serbia then I'd rather they have a group stage exit so the coaches and the CVA people can take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror and ask where they went wrong. Paris is only three years away and the ages of most of these players absolutely give them time to recover and be a medal contender in 3 years. As long as the non-players know what they're doing... I don't know, old habits die hard in China's volleyball world. Domestic critics have long pointed out problems with the Chinese volleyball league. That the pool of elite volleyball players are too small. That they aren't expose to very high level international volleyball until they reach the NT, by which time it may be too late for them to make a big leap in improvement in skills. That the league and Chinese volleyball in general is under-funded and lack adequate resources. That the coaches in Chinese volleyball lag behind their international peers in coaching skills and techniques and moreover, that they are resistant to new ideas and innovations, they are stuck in their old ways. These issues have been raised for well over a decade, yet only a few improvements were made, except for some cosmetic changes here and there. The vested interest in the existing system is too strong to make the necessary reform.
Lang Ping's excellent coaching skills and the rise of Zhu Ting has to some extent covered up those problems, but those problems are still there. Would China's exit in the quarter-final, or worst, being unable to qualify for the quarter-final wake them up? It will certainly be a shock, but enough of a shock to for the Chinese to make more drastic reform to their volleyball program? That I am not sure.
You could also say the rise of Zhu Ting made Lang Ping look good from 2013-19. They were 4th at 2013 ACh ffs |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jul 28, 2021 22:06:34 GMT -5
I thought JLP had a system, but actually, it's all about ZT and lives and dies with her wrist.
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Post by ironhammer on Jul 28, 2021 22:09:20 GMT -5
Agree, China is mentally weak and seem to struggle to get out of their funk. While you can argue China did play better against the US than against Turkey, they still are very inconsistent and collapse in the crucial points. I think Russia is the favorite here. Normally they're pretty strong mentally... I don't think any other team would have held up against the Brazilians (+ home crowd!) in Rio for example. And taking the 4th set vs Italy in 2018 WCh to send it to a decider, or coming back from two sets down vs Italy in the 2019 VNL.
Something abnormal happened between the last VNL match vs USA and the first group-stage match vs. Turkey. I'm not exactly sure what yet but Zhu Ting's wrist is probably one of them (although it's an inadequate explanation since the team basically beat Turkey without Zhu in 2019 VNL).
That was different I think. China wasn't the favorite and was an underdog at Rio. Few Chinese fans expected China to beat Brazil at Rio. There wasn't the same pressure to stand on the podium in Rio. But now China is supposed to be one of the favorites. That pressure might be getting to them. |
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Post by ironhammer on Jul 28, 2021 22:10:44 GMT -5
I don't know, old habits die hard in China's volleyball world. Domestic critics have long pointed out problems with the Chinese volleyball league. That the pool of elite volleyball players are too small. That they aren't expose to very high level international volleyball until they reach the NT, by which time it may be too late for them to make a big leap in improvement in skills. That the league and Chinese volleyball in general is under-funded and lack adequate resources. That the coaches in Chinese volleyball lag behind their international peers in coaching skills and techniques and moreover, that they are resistant to new ideas and innovations, they are stuck in their old ways. These issues have been raised for well over a decade, yet only a few improvements were made, except for some cosmetic changes here and there. The vested interest in the existing system is too strong to make the necessary reform.
Lang Ping's excellent coaching skills and the rise of Zhu Ting has to some extent covered up those problems, but those problems are still there. Would China's exit in the quarter-final, or worst, being unable to qualify for the quarter-final wake them up? It will certainly be a shock, but enough of a shock to for the Chinese to make more drastic reform to their volleyball program? That I am not sure.
You could also say the rise of Zhu Ting made Lang Ping look good from 2013-19. They were 4th at 2013 ACh ffs No, Lang Ping deserves credit for discovering and training Zhu Ting. Zhu was quite wobbly too when she first got on the NT. Lang Ping had to train her to refine her skills and mental game. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2021 22:43:34 GMT -5
I thought JLP had a system, but actually, it's all about ZT and lives and dies with her wrist. It always has been. Their opposite receives. |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jul 28, 2021 23:59:39 GMT -5
If Korea makes the QF's and China doesn't I'm just convinced that life is not real and this is some weird simulation. Life since COVID has just been other worldly.
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Post by ironhammer on Jul 29, 2021 0:01:01 GMT -5
If Korea makes the QF's and China doesn't I'm just convinced that life is not real and this is some weird simulation. Life since COVID has just been other worldly. Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get...  |
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jul 29, 2021 0:46:22 GMT -5
If Korea makes the QF's and China doesn't I'm just convinced that life is not real and this is some weird simulation. Life since COVID has just been other worldly. Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get... unless if you're a dog, in which case you know you're getting poison. |
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Post by ironhammer on Jul 29, 2021 1:02:53 GMT -5
Life is like a box of chocolates, you never know what you are going to get... unless if you're a dog, in which case you know you're getting poison. There are no dogs in the group...right? |
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jul 29, 2021 1:47:18 GMT -5
This game will start on time as Serbia just swept Kenya.
I think everyone in the tournament is rooting for Russia at this point. Well, maybe Kenya and Argentina don't care.
China looks so vulnerable .. but then again... I've seen China look lost, come back from being down 0-2 and 17-20 in the 3rd (2014 trauma trigger) to avoid elimination, win in 5, and win subsequent matches to end up with a silver after nearly not making the semifinals.. They are fully capable of turning it around. JLP and even an injured Zhu on the other side, they have a fighting chance in any match.
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Post by CAI BIN MUST GO on Jul 29, 2021 1:54:13 GMT -5
I think everyone in the tournament is rooting for Russia at this point. Yeah... everyone except China themselves and (maybe) Guidetti (but not Turkey) lol. I don't think KOR/JPN/DOM/KEN care either because the probability of getting matched up with China is 0. Neither would Argentina like you said.
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trojansc
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Post by trojansc on Jul 29, 2021 2:05:02 GMT -5
I think everyone in the tournament is rooting for Russia at this point. Yeah... everyone except China themselves and (maybe) Guidetti (but not Turkey) lol. I don't think KOR/JPN/DOM/KEN care either because the probability of getting matched up with China is 0. Neither would Argentina like you said. I don't think the probability is 0. Sure, it's very low, but China could still finish 3-2 and take 3rd in the pool, so the KOR/JPN/DOM grouping could care. Nobody watching so far would think that China would beat Italy at this point, but, can't say zero! |
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Post by basil on Jul 29, 2021 2:08:33 GMT -5
if injuries and overtraining are really what took down China, that's really disappointing.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2021 2:10:31 GMT -5
I’m so tired Ughhhh
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Post by ironhammer on Jul 29, 2021 2:10:58 GMT -5
This game will start on time as Serbia just swept Kenya. I think everyone in the tournament is rooting for Russia at this point. Well, maybe Kenya and Argentina don't care. China looks so vulnerable .. but then again... I've seen China look lost, come back from being down 0-2 and 17-20 in the 3rd (2014 trauma trigger) to avoid elimination, win in 5, and win subsequent matches to end up with a silver after nearly not making the semifinals.. They are fully capable of turning it around. JLP and even an injured Zhu on the other side, they have a fighting chance in any match. Yeah, that has happened in the past. It looked all over for China only for them to come back from the dead. Like Athens 2004, China was down two sets in the gold medal match and needed to turn around in set 3 to remain in the match and deny Russia a gold. Things look grim until China squeezed past Russia in set 3 to a 3-2 victory and gold medal. In Rio 2016, China was crushed by Brazil in set 1 in the quarter-final. Brazil and their fans were celebrating prematurely, thinking it will be an easy match, but China came from behind to a shocking 3-2 victory over Brazil that stunned the crowd. In a 2019 VNL match in Hong Kong, China was again down 0-2 in sets and was facing a 3-0 defeat by Italy, but China managed to pull some tricks out of their hat at the last minute and got back set 3, and then went on to beat Italy 3-2.
However, in all those cases, China wasn't performing as badly as they are now. They weren't losing back-to-back 3-0 matches coming in to those games. Which means China has an even higher hill to climb here. I don't know if they could do it again here. We'll just have to wait and see.
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