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Post by slxpress on May 19, 2022 14:42:33 GMT -5
Only in the very broadest sense of that word. Certainly nothing equivalent to a college coach. I’m not sure I understand the implication. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion? |
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Steve Aird
May 19, 2022 14:47:51 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by n00b on May 19, 2022 14:47:51 GMT -5
Holy hell. I’m not comparing Pete Waite and Wisconsin to Indiana and Aird. I’m saying that a great program has to both find the right coach and keep them. Indiana is not only going to have to find the right coach - which they obviously haven’t yet. They will also have to then keep them, which is another set of challenges. One I’m sure they’d aspire to at this point, but a challenge nonetheless. I get your point. Indiana would have the same problem as a mid-major if they find the right coach to get the program on track: being poached by a better program. But if you could get things going in Indiana, it could become a destination school. Indiana is not in the same stratosphere as the vast majority of mid-majors. Theoretically, you’re right that it’s possible that coach gets poached. But the next coach to leave a $350k salary to take a bigger job will probably be the first. (Did Hambly make that much at Illinois?) There are probably 50 programs that can easily double a successful mid-major head coach’s salary to poach them. The number of programs who could significantly increase Aird’s salary is in the single digits and don’t open up very often. |
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Post by bbg95 on May 19, 2022 14:52:41 GMT -5
I get your point. Indiana would have the same problem as a mid-major if they find the right coach to get the program on track: being poached by a better program. But if you could get things going in Indiana, it could become a destination school. But the next coach to leave a $350k salary to take a bigger job will probably be the first. (Did Hambly make that much at Illinois?) Eh, it's only a matter of time before that happens. Notre Dame, Oklahoma and Oregon all saw their football coaches get poached this offseason, not to mention many others. And those programs are infinitely more successful than Indiana volleyball is. |
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Post by bbg95 on May 19, 2022 14:54:23 GMT -5
Also, that reminds me. Who did Aird beat out to get this job in the first place? Were there a lot of other top candidates who applied?
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Post by n00b on May 19, 2022 14:56:12 GMT -5
But the next coach to leave a $350k salary to take a bigger job will probably be the first. (Did Hambly make that much at Illinois?) Eh, it's only a matter of time before that happens. Notre Dame, Oklahoma and Oregon all saw their football coaches get poached this offseason, not to mention many others. And those programs are infinitely more successful than Indiana volleyball is. And athletic departments stand to make tens of millions of more dollars if their football team is more successful. That just isn’t true in volleyball. |
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Post by bbg95 on May 19, 2022 14:58:16 GMT -5
Eh, it's only a matter of time before that happens. Notre Dame, Oklahoma and Oregon all saw their football coaches get poached this offseason, not to mention many others. And those programs are infinitely more successful than Indiana volleyball is. And athletic departments stand to make tens of millions of more dollars if their football team is more successful. That just isn’t true in volleyball. Yes, that's true. But as volleyball continues to grow, it's inevitable that more coaches will get poached. Also, I forgot to mention this earlier, but I think there is a 100% chance that Aird himself would have jumped at the chance to leave Indiana for Penn State if Penn State actually wanted him. |
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Post by mikegarrison on May 19, 2022 14:58:23 GMT -5
Only in the very broadest sense of that word. Certainly nothing equivalent to a college coach. I’m not sure I understand the implication. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion? Sure you can have an opinion. I'm just pointing out that everybody likes to be the hero of their own story, and everybody tends to feel like their own part of the puzzle is the most important part. |
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Post by slxpress on May 19, 2022 15:00:22 GMT -5
Only in the very broadest sense of that word. Certainly nothing equivalent to a college coach. I’m not sure I understand the implication. Does that mean I can’t have an opinion? Sure you can have an opinion. I'm just pointing out that everybody likes to be the hero of their own story, and everybody tends to feel like their own part of the puzzle is the most important part. It's just that in terms of collegiate sports programs, the head coach is the most important part. Spoken as someone who isn't a head coach of a college sports program. |
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Post by bbg95 on May 19, 2022 15:03:35 GMT -5
Sure you can have an opinion. I'm just pointing out that everybody likes to be the hero of their own story, and everybody tends to feel like their own part of the puzzle is the most important part. It's just that in terms of collegiate sports programs, the head coach is the most important part. Spoken as someone who isn't a head coach of a college sports program. Yes, the head coach is the most important factor in the success or failure of any program. Well, sometimes, it's actually a top assistant who is the de facto head coach, but it's basically the same idea. Now, some schools may find it impossible to keep their great coach due to resources or other limitations. But if you can actually get a great coach to stay at a smaller school (e.g. like Mark Few at Gonzaga, which you mentioned earlier), then that success can continue. |
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Post by slxpress on May 19, 2022 15:15:50 GMT -5
It's just that in terms of collegiate sports programs, the head coach is the most important part. Spoken as someone who isn't a head coach of a college sports program. Yes, the head coach is the most important factor in the success or failure of any program. Well, sometimes, it's actually a top assistant who is the de facto head coach, but it's basically the same idea. Now, some schools may find it impossible to keep their great coach due to resources or other limitations. But if you can actually get a great coach to stay at a smaller school (e.g. like Mark Few at Gonzaga, which you mentioned earlier), then that success can continue. Bill Snyder is my exhibit A. Took over the worst program in the history of college football and not only turned them into a powerhouse for a time, but churned out a series of decent head football coaches as well. |
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Post by Hisbots on May 19, 2022 15:16:41 GMT -5
I think I’m short the message you’re trying to relay is that until these jobs aren’t seen as “stepping stones”, the programs will continue to struggle to remain competitive (if they can even get there) because they will continue to have coaching turnover whether the last hire is successful (which means ‘promotion’ to something bigger and better) or not successful. (fired or contract not renewed.)
These programs need to make it so their coaches don’t want to leave for something bigger and better; and I think that’s what Indiana was trying to do with Aird. Better facilities, great pay, let him build the program and give performance bonuses as they build etc… It’s just not going to work out because they picked the wrong guy.
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Post by mervynpumpkinhead on May 19, 2022 15:17:03 GMT -5
I get your point. Indiana would have the same problem as a mid-major if they find the right coach to get the program on track: being poached by a better program. But if you could get things going in Indiana, it could become a destination school. Indiana is not in the same stratosphere as the vast majority of mid-majors. Theoretically, you’re right that it’s possible that coach gets poached. But the next coach to leave a $350k salary to take a bigger job will probably be the first. (Did Hambly make that much at Illinois?) There are probably 50 programs that can easily double a successful mid-major head coach’s salary to poach them. The number of programs who could significantly increase Aird’s salary is in the single digits and don’t open up very often. Not saying Indiana is in the same stratosphere as the vast majority of mid-majors. I'm saying it's the same problem: keeping a coach who has elevated the program. |
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Post by knapplc on May 19, 2022 15:20:35 GMT -5
Sure you can have an opinion. I'm just pointing out that everybody likes to be the hero of their own story, and everybody tends to feel like their own part of the puzzle is the most important part. It's just that in terms of collegiate sports programs, the head coach is the most important part. Spoken as someone who isn't a head coach of a college sports program. Bill Snyder is probably the best example of this. |
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Post by bbg95 on May 19, 2022 15:23:40 GMT -5
Yes, the head coach is the most important factor in the success or failure of any program. Well, sometimes, it's actually a top assistant who is the de facto head coach, but it's basically the same idea. Now, some schools may find it impossible to keep their great coach due to resources or other limitations. But if you can actually get a great coach to stay at a smaller school (e.g. like Mark Few at Gonzaga, which you mentioned earlier), then that success can continue. Bill Snyder is my exhibit A. Took over the worst program in the history of college football and not only turned them into a powerhouse for a time, but churned out a series of decent head football coaches as well. Bill Snyder was incredible. Kansas State actually had a look at a national championship game, which should have been impossible. |
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Post by slxpress on May 19, 2022 15:28:12 GMT -5
I think I’m short the message you’re trying to relay is that until these jobs aren’t seen as “stepping stones”, the programs will continue to struggle to remain competitive (if they can even get there) because they will continue to have coaching turnover whether the last hire is successful (which means ‘promotion’ to something bigger and better) or not successful. (fired or contract not renewed.) These programs need to make it so their coaches don’t want to leave for something bigger and better; and I think that’s what Indiana was trying to do with Aird. Better facilities, great pay, let him build the program and give performance bonuses as they build etc… It’s just not going to work out because they picked the wrong guy. Having your job being a stepping stone is a heck of a lot better than being a moribund program. Miami football was basically a stepping stone throughout the 80s and 90s, with Schnellenberger, Johnson, Franchione, and Butch Davis. It’s not THE problem for programs. It’s simply A problem distinct from being able to hire the right person in the first place. Hiring the right person is the unbelievably hard part. It’s because it’s so difficult that being able to retain them when you do find them is important, too. But I don’t mean to make them equivalent. Just separate issues. But for Indiana, apparently firing the obviously wrong person is a bridge too far. I mean, stupid is as stupid does, and you can’t fix stupid. It’s a shame to me he’ll have the job for another year. |
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