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Post by jagdpanther on Jul 5, 2022 19:18:44 GMT -5
The Aird story will be "over" when it falls off of page 1 of VT for 30 consecutive days. Hooboy, we got a ways to go, then. |
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Post by n00b on Jul 5, 2022 20:30:46 GMT -5
The IU players deserve the opportunity to play without dwelling on the past controversy. If only there was some way the IU administration could make this happen… |
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Post by beavis on Jul 6, 2022 0:48:52 GMT -5
Anyone who attends at least a few IU matches per year has seen the obvious decline. Things were horrible at the end under Kruzan, and the same pattern is emerging with Aird. Allegations of misconduct aside, the program, with all new facilities and high expectations, has gone from 16-15 overall and 7-13 in the conference in Aird's first year (a pretty good achievement considering he had Kruzan's players who had gone 12-20 and 1-19 the year before) to 10-22 overall and 4-16 in the conference last year. Fitzner may have stayed, but barely played last year - the same with Zulauf. Clearly one of the worst, if not the worst, passing teams in the Conference. Pretty clear there has been no turnaround, and the direction the program has been heading has been steadily downward during his tenure. And worries about him suing if they gave him the buyout are silly, because they would clearly only pay the buyout if he entered into a Release and agreement not to sue. Get it over with, buy him out, and lure Miller-Phillips away from Ball State already. I tried to get off of the other issues about Aird, and laid out (see above) why the performance of his teams warrants his dismissal, but no one seems interested in discussing how much they have sucked and underperformed under his tutelage. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 6, 2022 5:00:05 GMT -5
Anyone who attends at least a few IU matches per year has seen the obvious decline. Things were horrible at the end under Kruzan, and the same pattern is emerging with Aird. Allegations of misconduct aside, the program, with all new facilities and high expectations, has gone from 16-15 overall and 7-13 in the conference in Aird's first year (a pretty good achievement considering he had Kruzan's players who had gone 12-20 and 1-19 the year before) to 10-22 overall and 4-16 in the conference last year. Fitzner may have stayed, but barely played last year - the same with Zulauf. Clearly one of the worst, if not the worst, passing teams in the Conference. Pretty clear there has been no turnaround, and the direction the program has been heading has been steadily downward during his tenure. And worries about him suing if they gave him the buyout are silly, because they would clearly only pay the buyout if he entered into a Release and agreement not to sue. Get it over with, buy him out, and lure Miller-Phillips away from Ball State already. I tried to get off of the other issues about Aird, and laid out (see above) why the performance of his teams warrants his dismissal, but no one seems interested in discussing how much they have sucked and underperformed under his tutelage. This is a good point that everyone seems to be missing. The IU administration has a complete out here. The program is worse now than when he came in, all the top recruits have bailed, etc. They can just fire him for poor performance and call it a day. It won’t feel satisfying if they don’t admit the harm he caused his players, but it’s solid from a harm reduction standpoint - it will accomplish the primary goal of removing from a position of power where he can continue to mistreat players, and make it a lot harder for him to be put in such a position elsewhere. |
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Post by northwoods on Jul 6, 2022 8:34:03 GMT -5
I tried to get off of the other issues about Aird, and laid out (see above) why the performance of his teams warrants his dismissal, but no one seems interested in discussing how much they have sucked and underperformed under his tutelage. This is a good point that everyone seems to be missing. The IU administration has a complete out here. The program is worse now than when he came in, all the top recruits have bailed, etc. They can just fire him for poor performance and call it a day. It won’t feel satisfying if they don’t admit the harm he caused his players, but it’s solid from a harm reduction standpoint - it will accomplish the primary goal of removing from a position of power where he can continue to mistreat players, and make it a lot harder for him to be put in such a position elsewhere. The primary issue is that IU does not want to pay him. Why that is so important to a B1G school that they are willing to get a reputation for not protecting Student Athletes from abuse is confusing to me….. |
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Post by rjaege on Jul 6, 2022 9:11:09 GMT -5
I tried to get off of the other issues about Aird, and laid out (see above) why the performance of his teams warrants his dismissal, but no one seems interested in discussing how much they have sucked and underperformed under his tutelage. This is a good point that everyone seems to be missing. The IU administration has a complete out here. The program is worse now than when he came in, all the top recruits have bailed, etc. They can just fire him for poor performance and call it a day. It won’t feel satisfying if they don’t admit the harm he caused his players, but it’s solid from a harm reduction standpoint - it will accomplish the primary goal of removing from a position of power where he can continue to mistreat players, and make it a lot harder for him to be put in such a position elsewhere. Regardless of what you want, this is how I see it. 1) IU has already decided to retain him for 2022 for past issues. 2) No guarantees for him after 2022, assume his release or retention will be based on performance in practices, team management and team practice. Very likely he is on a short lease. 3) Very, very likely that UI has a lot more information on past events than the commenters on this board. They made the decision they made. It's a done deal for 2022. 4) Unless he is charged with a crime, very unlikely UI Admin will acknowledge harm to players. It's a personnel issue. Making personnel issues public risks a lawsuit. 5) Steve Aird at this point is damaged goods IMO. Very unlikely he can land another coaching job any time soon, even as an assistant, at least not at the D1 level. IMO, continued Aird bashing only harms his current players at this point. Creating additional challenges for them to deal with. None of this "harm" appears to meet the definition of a crime. So I don't expect charges against Aird, and Aird bashing commenters are free to continue. P.S. To explain my perspective. Had one boss force me out for non-performance issues. He was extremely verbally abusive to me and others. No relief from personnel. He did real dirt to me. I moved on. His stupid performance continued with others, but he was politically connected. There is good and bad in all lives. A verbally abusive boss or coach is a minor bad. It may not seem like it at the time, but it is. Move on! Now I have cancer, but as an old guy, not as a child or young person, like many others. Lost some abilities, but my cancer in remission for now. I've had a very good life. Feel lucky/blessed in that regard. Not all good, but very good overall. Could complain about some things, but much prefer to focus on the good. Focusing on the bad just makes things worse, in my experience. |
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Post by robtearle on Jul 6, 2022 9:24:43 GMT -5
Maybe if those others had been warned, they could have avoided being in the position that allowed him to continue. Maybe speaking out repeatedly becomes that warning for the next set of 'others'. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 6, 2022 9:40:05 GMT -5
This is a good point that everyone seems to be missing. The IU administration has a complete out here. The program is worse now than when he came in, all the top recruits have bailed, etc. They can just fire him for poor performance and call it a day. It won’t feel satisfying if they don’t admit the harm he caused his players, but it’s solid from a harm reduction standpoint - it will accomplish the primary goal of removing from a position of power where he can continue to mistreat players, and make it a lot harder for him to be put in such a position elsewhere. Regardless of what you want, this is how I see it. 1) IU has already decided to retain him for 2022 for past issues. 2) No guarantees for him after 2022, assume his release or retention will be based on performance in practices, team management and team practice. Very likely he is on a short lease. 3) Very, very likely that UI has a lot more information on past events than the commenters on this board. They made the decision they made. It's a done deal for 2022. 4) Unless he is charged with a crime, very unlikely UI Admin will acknowledge harm to players. It's a personnel issue. Making personnel issues public risks a lawsuit. 5) Steve Aird at this point is damaged goods IMO. Very unlikely he can land another coaching job any time soon, even as an assistant, at least not at the D1 level. IMO, continued Aird bashing only harms his current players at this point. Creating additional challenges for them to deal with. None of this "harm" appears to meet the definition of a crime. So I don't expect charges against Aird, and Aird bashing commenters are free to continue. P.S. To explain my perspective. Had one boss force me out for non-performance issues. He was extremely verbally abusive to me and others. No relief from personnel. He did real dirt to me. I moved on. His stupid performance continued with others, but he was politically connected. There is good and bad in all lives. A verbally abusive boss or coach is a minor bad. It may not seem like it at the time, but it is. Move on! Now I have cancer, but as an old guy, not as a child or young person, like many others. Lost some abilities, but my cancer in remission for now. I've had a very good life. Feel lucky/blessed in that regard. Not all good, but very good overall. Could complain about some things, but much prefer to focus on the good. Focusing on the bad just makes things worse, in my experience. How does it harm the current players? How does people knowing about their struggles and expressing concern and support for them do anything but make them feel less alone? |
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Post by rjaege on Jul 6, 2022 10:15:59 GMT -5
Regardless of what you want, this is how I see it. 1) IU has already decided to retain him for 2022 for past issues. 2) No guarantees for him after 2022, assume his release or retention will be based on performance in practices, team management and team practice. Very likely he is on a short lease. 3) Very, very likely that UI has a lot more information on past events than the commenters on this board. They made the decision they made. It's a done deal for 2022. 4) Unless he is charged with a crime, very unlikely UI Admin will acknowledge harm to players. It's a personnel issue. Making personnel issues public risks a lawsuit. 5) Steve Aird at this point is damaged goods IMO. Very unlikely he can land another coaching job any time soon, even as an assistant, at least not at the D1 level. IMO, continued Aird bashing only harms his current players at this point. Creating additional challenges for them to deal with. None of this "harm" appears to meet the definition of a crime. So I don't expect charges against Aird, and Aird bashing commenters are free to continue. P.S. To explain my perspective. Had one boss force me out for non-performance issues. He was extremely verbally abusive to me and others. No relief from personnel. He did real dirt to me. I moved on. His stupid performance continued with others, but he was politically connected. There is good and bad in all lives. A verbally abusive boss or coach is a minor bad. It may not seem like it at the time, but it is. Move on! Now I have cancer, but as an old guy, not as a child or young person, like many others. Lost some abilities, but my cancer in remission for now. I've had a very good life. Feel lucky/blessed in that regard. Not all good, but very good overall. Could complain about some things, but much prefer to focus on the good. Focusing on the bad just makes things worse, in my experience. How does it harm the current players? How does people knowing about their struggles and expressing concern and support for them do anything but make them feel less alone? Obviously IU volleyball will play with the controversy surrounding Coach Aird. Continuing to stir that pot helps continue and exasperate that controversy. The players will need to ignore it, but why make it harder? No reason not to give it a rest at this time IMO. Everyone knows about the controversy. |
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Post by robtearle on Jul 6, 2022 10:19:16 GMT -5
How does it harm the current players? How does people knowing about their struggles and expressing concern and support for them do anything but make them feel less alone? Obviously IU volleyball will play with the controversy surrounding Coach Aird. Continuing to stir that pot helps continue and exasperate that controversy. The players will need to ignore it, but why make it harder? No reason not to give it a rest at this time IMO. Everyone knows about the controversy. I VERY much disagree. "Continuing" the "controversy" serves both to keep Aird in check, because he knows the scrutiny is there and has not "gone away", and as a warning to the next set of players who might be considering playing for him. |
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Post by rjaege on Jul 6, 2022 10:31:21 GMT -5
Obviously IU volleyball will play with the controversy surrounding Coach Aird. Continuing to stir that pot helps continue and exasperate that controversy. The players will need to ignore it, but why make it harder? No reason not to give it a rest at this time IMO. Everyone knows about the controversy. I VERY much disagree. "Continuing" the "controversy" serves both to keep Aird in check, because he knows the scrutiny is there and has not "gone away", and as a warning to the next set of players who might be considering playing for him. Yes we definitely disagree. Your beating a dead horse from my perspective. But you are free to continue. ENJOY! |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 6, 2022 10:36:37 GMT -5
How does it harm the current players? How does people knowing about their struggles and expressing concern and support for them do anything but make them feel less alone? Obviously IU volleyball will play with the controversy surrounding Coach Aird. Continuing to stir that pot helps continue and exasperate that controversy. The players will need to ignore it, but why make it harder? No reason not to give it a rest at this time IMO. Everyone knows about the controversy. That's like saying that we shouldn't talk about a dude who beats his girlfriend because she's got to live with it. |
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Post by rainbowbadger on Jul 6, 2022 10:54:47 GMT -5
Obviously IU volleyball will play with the controversy surrounding Coach Aird. Continuing to stir that pot helps continue and exasperate that controversy. The players will need to ignore it, but why make it harder? No reason not to give it a rest at this time IMO. Everyone knows about the controversy. That's like saying that we shouldn't talk about a dude who beats his girlfriend because she's got to live with it. Like, at a minimum, shouldn't we make it known that this dude has abused his girlfriends in the past so other ladies know what they may be getting into with this guy? Especially if he's charming and has a nice place and talks a good game. |
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Post by rjaege on Jul 6, 2022 11:10:01 GMT -5
That's like saying that we shouldn't talk about a dude who beats his girlfriend because she's got to live with it. Like, at a minimum, shouldn't we make it known that this dude has abused his girlfriends in the past so other ladies know what they may be getting into with this guy? Especially if he's charming and has a nice place and talks a good game. Coach Aird beat(s) his players? That's a crime. Arrest him. The word is out. Just give this team a chance and him a second chance. That's what I am saying. I'm not optimistic, but give it a chance. Any new recruits are aware and if problems continue the vibe during campus visits will be obvious. Also the transfer portal provides an easy out. But you disagree, so continue and enjoy. |
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Post by greatlakesvballer on Jul 6, 2022 11:13:53 GMT -5
That's like saying that we shouldn't talk about a dude who beats his girlfriend because she's got to live with it. Like, at a minimum, shouldn't we make it known that this dude has abused his girlfriends in the past so other ladies know what they may be getting into with this guy? Especially if he's charming and has a nice place and talks a good game. LOL I love the "has a nice place" reference. "Hey baby...want to come back to Wilkinson Hall? It's brand new...and I tend to be less abusive in front of 1400 fans." |
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