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Post by Logan Tom Fan on Aug 24, 2022 19:40:59 GMT -5
Wonder what the side out ratio was for UH’s opponents last year with Lang up front and the opponent getting kills from the side she was blocking on?
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Post by noblesol on Aug 24, 2022 19:42:07 GMT -5
Matias looked darn good in the scrimmage, Byrd had her moments, and it was easy to see that position wasn't locked down. Not a bad problem to have. Suggests we'll see more than one lineup.
And as the season moves on, maybe a 6-2 proves more productive for this group. If relying on defense, and frequently out-of-system and not running the middles as much, a 6-2 gives another front-row attack option, and should be better for blocking and against the block.
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Post by eyelander on Aug 24, 2022 19:49:49 GMT -5
Jackie must be playing lights out. She must be so good that she has the potential to dethrone an All BW setter. Good situation to have if you're the Wahine. 2 very talented setters on one team is hard to find. Kinda reminding me of 2003, when Thurlby already had a redshirt year under her belt, was a high school all-state, all-American, and fab-50 player and ready to take the Wahine far. The only problem was Kanoe Kamana’o also came into the picture. I really like Lang, tho, and am excited to see Matias, also.
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Post by Logan Tom Fan on Aug 24, 2022 19:54:24 GMT -5
Matias looked darn good in the scrimmage, Byrd had her moments, and it was easy to see that position wasn't locked down. Not a bad problem to have. Suggests we'll see more than one lineup. And as the season moves on, maybe a 6-2 proves more productive for this group. If relying on defense, and frequently out-of-system and not running the middles as much, a 6-2 gives another front-row attack option, and should be better for blocking and against the block. A 6-2 also means that you’ll get two setters out of that one position, so if the match goes to 5 sets, the setters won’t be as tired, as say if they ran a 5-1 with one setter playing all 6 rotations. As we all know, fatigue can play a big role in a setters distribution, or lack there of, through out a match, so having that 6-2 option would be beneficial for both setters with their sets, especially when we play big name teams like Pitt, San Diego, UCLA, USC and so forth…
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Post by babybacksets on Aug 24, 2022 20:16:08 GMT -5
Probably more of a reason why we won’t see a 6-2. Coach Robyn is looking for setter consistency and you simply don’t get that from a 6-2 as you do with a 5-1 Setter consistency isn’t dependent on a 6-2 or 5-1 if both are equally good. If Lang and Matias are up and up with each other, which is what it sounds like, a 6-2 could be an option considering both aren’t tall setters. Three hitters on the front at all times with Alexander and Akana subbing in on the right, and a lesser chance of a blocking liability with Lang or Matias being up front. Two more days though! Categorically but respectfully disagree with this. Setter consistency is dependent on making adjustments as the game is going, which is absolutely something 2 good setters can be capable of, but for the 3 rotations you’re off, that’s 3 rotations where you’re not connecting with your middles, having to redefine your pin set location, keeping the opposite you’re paired with involved, etc. These are all major reasons why you don’t see 6-2’s very often. When we ran it with Iosia and Choy, we were lucky that both setters were extremely experienced already and for some l of the season only had to focus on connecting with the Middle they were paired with. Now Hawaii has 2 young setters who sure, COULD run a 6-2 if we don’t see enough out of either opposite to warrant them being in 6 rotations but I don’t think a 6-2 would form from just Lang and Matias both being good. As a setter, Robyn probably sees it’s better for their long term development to run a 5-1 and have the best setter win out the role within it, and if one is struggling, the next one up is prepared to set full time. Also truly size is becoming less and less of a factor if you are a pure setter which Matias and Lang both are. Whatever they give up on the block will be made up by their ability to run the offense consistently. There were several setters who ran 5-1’s on Top 10 teams that were not over 6ft big blockers.
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Post by noblesol on Aug 24, 2022 20:58:05 GMT -5
Setter consistency isn’t dependent on a 6-2 or 5-1 if both are equally good. If Lang and Matias are up and up with each other, which is what it sounds like, a 6-2 could be an option considering both aren’t tall setters. Three hitters on the front at all times with Alexander and Akana subbing in on the right, and a lesser chance of a blocking liability with Lang or Matias being up front. Two more days though! Categorically but respectfully disagree with this. Setter consistency is dependent on making adjustments as the game is going, which is absolutely something 2 good setters can be capable of, but for the 3 rotations you’re off, that’s 3 rotations where you’re not connecting with your middles, having to redefine your pin set location, keeping the opposite you’re paired with involved, etc. These are all major reasons why you don’t see 6-2’s very often. When we ran it with Iosia and Choy, we were lucky that both setters were extremely experienced already and for some l of the season only had to focus on connecting with the Middle they were paired with. Now Hawaii has 2 young setters who sure, COULD run a 6-2 if we don’t see enough out of either opposite to warrant them being in 6 rotations but I don’t think a 6-2 would form from just Lang and Matias both being good. As a setter, Robyn probably sees it’s better for their long term development to run a 5-1 and have the best setter win out the role within it, and if one is struggling, the next one up is prepared to set full time. Also truly size is becoming less and less of a factor if you are a pure setter which Matias and Lang both are. Whatever they give up on the block will be made up by their ability to run the offense consistently. There were several setters who ran 5-1’s on Top 10 teams that were not over 6ft big blockers. Teams with large dominant outsides gobble up small setters in the front row. The main deterrent is tough serving and exceptional back-row defense. Soft serving was a weakness of last year's group. And if you can't get a touch on the large dominant outside, your backrow has to dig exceptionally well. Otherwise every three rotations, you're in danger of giving up big runs. Lang didn't solidly grab the role from Byrd last year until the conference season, when facing fewer large dominant outsides. But against Washington in the 2nd round, the problem reared its head again. I'm not a big fan of the 6-2, but sometimes it's the better option, depending on team personnel and matchups across the net. If you have to consider a 6-2, its because you have problems matching upfront, and you probably aren't a consistently tough serving group. In conference, maybe less of an issue. But against a tough non-conference schedule, and post-season, potentially an issue. Since flipping back-and-forth between a 5-1 and 6-2 rarely works well, it's probably better to pick one and stick with it. I'm guessing this season, it's the 5-1 early. But, I don't doubt for a moment that Ah Mow would try a 6-2.
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Post by babybacksets on Aug 24, 2022 21:58:34 GMT -5
Categorically but respectfully disagree with this. Setter consistency is dependent on making adjustments as the game is going, which is absolutely something 2 good setters can be capable of, but for the 3 rotations you’re off, that’s 3 rotations where you’re not connecting with your middles, having to redefine your pin set location, keeping the opposite you’re paired with involved, etc. These are all major reasons why you don’t see 6-2’s very often. When we ran it with Iosia and Choy, we were lucky that both setters were extremely experienced already and for some l of the season only had to focus on connecting with the Middle they were paired with. Now Hawaii has 2 young setters who sure, COULD run a 6-2 if we don’t see enough out of either opposite to warrant them being in 6 rotations but I don’t think a 6-2 would form from just Lang and Matias both being good. As a setter, Robyn probably sees it’s better for their long term development to run a 5-1 and have the best setter win out the role within it, and if one is struggling, the next one up is prepared to set full time. Also truly size is becoming less and less of a factor if you are a pure setter which Matias and Lang both are. Whatever they give up on the block will be made up by their ability to run the offense consistently. There were several setters who ran 5-1’s on Top 10 teams that were not over 6ft big blockers. Teams with large dominant outsides gobble up small setters in the front row. The main deterrent is tough serving and exceptional back-row defense. Soft serving was a weakness of last year's group. And if you can't get a touch on the large dominant outside, your backrow has to dig exceptionally well. Otherwise every three rotations, you're in danger of giving up big runs. Lang didn't solidly grab the role from Byrd last year until the conference season, when facing fewer large dominant outsides. But against Washington in the 2nd round, the problem reared its head again. I'm not a big fan of the 6-2, but sometimes it's the better option, depending on team personnel and matchups across the net. If you have to consider a 6-2, its because you have problems matching upfront, and you probably aren't a consistently tough serving group. In conference, maybe less of an issue. But against a tough non-conference schedule, and post-season, potentially an issue. Since flipping back-and-forth between a 5-1 and 6-2 rarely works well, it's probably better to pick one and stick with it. I'm guessing this season, it's the 5-1 early. But, I don't doubt for a moment that Ah Mow would try a 6-2. Hey if it works, I’m all for it! I’m just saying it takes a lot from the setters to make it work, and idk if that’s necessarily what any of the setters need right now. I think consistently connecting with hitters is going to be key because if the team has focused on passing in the beginning, the last thing that anyone wants is for setter botched plays because they have to figure out a couple hitters again, when the other setter was connecting just fine a substitution ago. But if both Lang and Matias have consistent, similar tempos, are connecting well with both leftsides and middles, and it makes the team better to not have the middles draw attention/score on the slide as much, then cool, run the 6-2 all day. But I do think going with a 6-2 probably means that Edmonds isn’t going to make much of an impact as a DS, that’s just way too many subs
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Post by Logan Tom Fan on Aug 24, 2022 22:51:59 GMT -5
Setter consistency isn’t dependent on a 6-2 or 5-1 if both are equally good. If Lang and Matias are up and up with each other, which is what it sounds like, a 6-2 could be an option considering both aren’t tall setters. Three hitters on the front at all times with Alexander and Akana subbing in on the right, and a lesser chance of a blocking liability with Lang or Matias being up front. Two more days though! Categorically but respectfully disagree with this. Setter consistency is dependent on making adjustments as the game is going, which is absolutely something 2 good setters can be capable of, but for the 3 rotations you’re off, that’s 3 rotations where you’re not connecting with your middles, having to redefine your pin set location, keeping the opposite you’re paired with involved, etc. These are all major reasons why you don’t see 6-2’s very often. When we ran it with Iosia and Choy, we were lucky that both setters were extremely experienced already and for some l of the season only had to focus on connecting with the Middle they were paired with. Now Hawaii has 2 young setters who sure, COULD run a 6-2 if we don’t see enough out of either opposite to warrant them being in 6 rotations but I don’t think a 6-2 would form from just Lang and Matias both being good. As a setter, Robyn probably sees it’s better for their long term development to run a 5-1 and have the best setter win out the role within it, and if one is struggling, the next one up is prepared to set full time. Also truly size is becoming less and less of a factor if you are a pure setter which Matias and Lang both are. Whatever they give up on the block will be made up by their ability to run the offense consistently. There were several setters who ran 5-1’s on Top 10 teams that were not over 6ft big blockers. Fair enough, but as a setter myself, I don’t agree with being off for three rotations and that affecting the connection with your hitters. And that goes for any pass you get. You either have that connection with your hitters or you don’t. And if you’re a natural setter, you will find your hitters and make the best decision with what ever pass you’re given. You also know who you can go to from anywhere on the court. Whether you’re on or not, as a natural setter, you are able to perform no matter what the circumstances are. Lang and Matias have these abilities, just like how Iosia and Choi did. Both know what they can do in system or if they are brought off the net, and are good at it. That’s why Lang isn’t being guaranteed the job immediately because Matias is able to duplicate what she does. Which is good for both, so that none stays complacent in their game, and instead forces each to compete at the top of their game consistently. And that also bodes well for the team offensively too. Defensively, I’m also going to have to disagree with a consistent offense being able to offset a smaller block because that smaller block will get eaten up to a much bigger outside attacker over and over again. And the deeper you get into the tourney, the more critical it is for each position on the floor to be at its best. I know I wouldn’t want any chinks in the armor. The defense would have to be Morgan Hentz-like in all three back-row positions for the offense to offset that mismatch if we are to go far in NCAA’s (crossing fingers we get there), as the competition will only get tougher after each match. And we all know Hentz was an All-American in her own right.
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Post by babybacksets on Aug 24, 2022 23:48:45 GMT -5
Categorically but respectfully disagree with this. Setter consistency is dependent on making adjustments as the game is going, which is absolutely something 2 good setters can be capable of, but for the 3 rotations you’re off, that’s 3 rotations where you’re not connecting with your middles, having to redefine your pin set location, keeping the opposite you’re paired with involved, etc. These are all major reasons why you don’t see 6-2’s very often. When we ran it with Iosia and Choy, we were lucky that both setters were extremely experienced already and for some l of the season only had to focus on connecting with the Middle they were paired with. Now Hawaii has 2 young setters who sure, COULD run a 6-2 if we don’t see enough out of either opposite to warrant them being in 6 rotations but I don’t think a 6-2 would form from just Lang and Matias both being good. As a setter, Robyn probably sees it’s better for their long term development to run a 5-1 and have the best setter win out the role within it, and if one is struggling, the next one up is prepared to set full time. Also truly size is becoming less and less of a factor if you are a pure setter which Matias and Lang both are. Whatever they give up on the block will be made up by their ability to run the offense consistently. There were several setters who ran 5-1’s on Top 10 teams that were not over 6ft big blockers. Fair enough, but as a setter myself, I don’t agree with being off for three rotations and that affecting the connection with your hitters. And that goes for any pass you get. You either have that connection with your hitters or you don’t. And if you’re a natural setter, you will find your hitters and make the best decision with what ever pass you’re given. You also know who you can go to from anywhere on the court. Whether you’re on or not, as a natural setter, you are able to perform no matter what the circumstances are. Lang and Matias have these abilities, just like how Iosia and Choi did. Both know what they can do in system or if they are brought off the net, and are good at it. That’s why Lang isn’t being guaranteed the job immediately because Matias is able to duplicate what she does. Which is good for both, so that none stays complacent in their game, and instead forces each to compete at the top of their game consistently. And that also bodes well for the team offensively too. Defensively, I’m also going to have to disagree with a consistent offense being able to offset a smaller block because that smaller block will get eaten up to a much bigger outside attacker over and over again. And the deeper you get into the tourney, the more critical it is for each position on the floor to be at its best. I know I wouldn’t want any chinks in the armor. The defense would have to be Morgan Hentz-like in all three back-row positions for the offense to offset that mismatch if we are to go far in NCAA’s (crossing fingers we get there), as the competition will only get tougher after each match. And we all know Hentz was an All-American in her own right. Agree to disagree on how much 1 smaller blocker affects the overall game, mostly because statistically it prob didn’ doesn’t factor as much your own ability to score but I get what you mean. However in those scenarios, we can’t discount that bringing in Byrd as a blocking/setting sub is a possibility as well. I do absolutely agree that Matias and Lang are both really talented, and again if it’s a matter of getting 4 productive pins into a match I’m all for it. I just don’t want anything to mess with hitter connection but if all the setters are connecting (with Amber especially) then I say give them all a chance!
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Post by noblesol on Aug 25, 2022 0:19:34 GMT -5
"...statistically it prob didn’ doesn’t factor as much your own ability to score ..."
And there's the other issue that can bring on a 6-2, is a lack of dominant left-side hitter to bail out the small setter in the front row.
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Post by bucky415 on Aug 25, 2022 0:23:09 GMT -5
I can't wait for island streaming on Labor Day weekend! Meanwhile, I hope family and friends are in College Station and Igiede throws a Block Party for them, with multiple Wahine victories (and I think USD is underrated to start)! Robyn clearly is not ducking anyone with the non conference schedule!
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Post by babybacksets on Aug 25, 2022 0:45:28 GMT -5
"...statistically it prob didn’ doesn’t factor as much your own ability to score ..." And there's the other issue that can bring on a 6-2, is a lack of dominant left-side hitter to bail out the small setter in the front row. Yea if the slide isn’t the best option to draw the block away from the leftside hitters, then that might be what is needed!
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Post by hwnstunner on Aug 25, 2022 1:05:58 GMT -5
We can talk pros and cons for the 6-2, but ultimately we have multiple seasons of proof Ah Mow will use it.
I actually think its likely Hawaii does a 6-2 at some point this weekend.
However a 6-2 means the Hawaii bench is 5 players lol. Hawaii really can't afford an injury this season...
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Post by 5100 on Aug 25, 2022 1:10:52 GMT -5
They haven't even found a consistent right side yet, and we're talking 6-2? Westerberg hit .158, Akana .136, de Goede is coming off injury, and Alexander has zero experience against Division I competition.
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vballfreak808
Hawaiian Ohana
2020 All-VolleyTalk 1st Team, All-VolleyTalk 2nd Team (2023, 2022, 2017, 2016), All-VolleyTalk HM (2021, 2019, 2018), 2017 Fantasy League 1st Runner-up, 2016 Fantasy League Champion
#GoBows
Posts: 13,129
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Post by vballfreak808 on Aug 25, 2022 1:21:42 GMT -5
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