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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on Jun 27, 2022 11:17:04 GMT -5
A quick, probably not possible way to make everyone happy right now is to make Plan B available for free. Democrats would be smart to push for stuff like this as there would probably be enough pressure from the public to do this. Should calm things down until there's a more rational debate. This goes against all my personal economic beliefs but if the federal government purchased all of the one companies that produces "plan b" products, it would be worth ending this nightmare. Not the permanent solution but a temporary to calm things down. OK what about the women who can't get it within 72 hours. Or whose situations change between getting pregnant and choosing to terminate. Or who's pregnancies become life threatening. Or who's fetuses develop fatal conditions in the womb. It's not even a half measure it's barely a 1/16th measure. Could you elaborate on this potential scenario please? What were you envisioning? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 11:50:23 GMT -5
Random thoughts:
1. Roe v. Wade SHOULD have been overturned. It was judicial overstretch then and now. It was passed on the rationale of the 14th Amendment's 1st Section. That reads:
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
It's a big stretch to guarantee abortion rights in there--especially since it says those rights can't be removed 'without due process of law'. Legislative bodies ARE due process.
2. Just because RvW should be repealed doesn't mean abortion should be banned.
3. The modern anti-abortion movement traces to Jerry Falwell in the mid-1970s after his failure to sustain segregated schools in Virginia for whites only (including what is now Liberty University). Falwell was able to refill his church's coffers with money because of this issue as well as create 'the Moral Majority', so there wasn't really morality at the beginning. It was a money grab from a racist.
4. Evangelicals talk about Jesus and what is right, but rabbis have noted that some abortions are mandatory under rabbinic law and that Jews in 20+ states are now being denied their religious beliefs. This is also interesting because Christians insist the Old Testament is 'pro-life' but rabbis are pretty much 100% that abortion is legal. I side with the Jewish interpretation, but the fact that two major faiths have such a disparate interpretation means one should not be imposed upon any/all others.
4a. Abortions in Israel are paid for by the government.
4b. Islamic nations permit abortion in cases of the mom's endangerment and incest. It's interesting that Islamists are less fundamentalist here than evangelicals.
5. John Roberts' opinion on the current case was the right way to go. Alito et al. sent an intentional ideological message. It wasn't about the law and Alito's attacks on the liberal members of the court as well as Thomas talking about 'now we can roll back gay marriage', etc, shows that.
6. The rationale used by Alito, etc. is insanely dangerous well beyond this issue. Alito has outright said there's no right to privacy medical or not. If there's no right here, then there's no right for anything else 'private'. Law works on precedent, so it isn't that many steps until government has the complete and utter right to regulate every aspect of your life. Remember, the Constitution only guarantees interstate commerce. Traveling for vacation? Sorry, that's not permissible. No, this is not the case currently, but it is a potential worrisome direction.
7. This isn't about faith. It's about Christian Nationalism. That's why the GOP candidate here (Mary Miller) said it was a great victory for white people. It's why a GOP senator from Texas has said it's time to roll back Brown v. Topeka. They very conveniently forget Mark 12:17--""Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's". Making a single issue (abortion) into a religious totem/litmus test also runs afoul of the Old Testament and the Jews worship of false idols.
8. I don't think anyone ever expected the SCOTUS to actually tilt so far reactionary (it hasn't been this far to the right since 1855-60). While term limits for justices has been proposed, there is an alternative. SCOTUS justices are supposed to be the top of the heap with wisdom and experience. Perhaps the solution is to go back to naming older individuals who have decades of legal experience because right now they are chosen for nothing but youth and political ideology. The average age of a nominee continues to drop and there is no mandatory retirement limit. Perhaps mandatory retirement at 80 would help as well in the future.
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Post by averagefan69 on Jun 27, 2022 11:54:11 GMT -5
OK what about the women who can't get it within 72 hours. Or whose situations change between getting pregnant and choosing to terminate. Or who's pregnancies become life threatening. Or who's fetuses develop fatal conditions in the womb. It's not even a half measure it's barely a 1/16th measure. Could you elaborate on this potential scenario please? What were you envisioning? Sure, again this is a long shot and only my thinking here 1. I meant becoming a major buyer of their PRODUCT, not the company. That would be egregious government overreach. I should've framed it better. 2. I think this would be EXTREMELY popular with a lot of young people. Currently, Biden's approval numbers with Gen Z/ Young people has been dropping so fast some polls show as much as 25-30% drop since his inauguration. Most young people have a sh*t ton of sex. Whether that be in college, from meet ups at bars, Tinder and other dating apps, etc. It is becoming a cultural norm to have a lot more casual hook ups. The amount of woman that would appreciate free Plan B, that is distributed by college medical staff, anonymously, would be outstanding. A lot of woman either can't afford it, don't want their parents to know, don't have a good form of transportation to a pharmacy, etc. This would also prevent a lot of future abortions because, I believe, because it would stop the gap between of uncertainty not being sure or and actually being pregnant. It is a stressful period that doesn't need to be there, for both the men who are stressed about it as well. Not sure the condom worked? Wanna make sure everything is okay? It's just another line of defense woman have against an unwanted pregnancy. I believe the same for standard birth control, although I know that needs a prescription and will be harder to make "free". This would be popular, IMO. Just my thoughts on that |
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Post by mervinswerved on Jun 27, 2022 12:06:25 GMT -5
OK what about the women who can't get it within 72 hours. Or whose situations change between getting pregnant and choosing to terminate. Or who's pregnancies become life threatening. Or who's fetuses develop fatal conditions in the womb. It's not even a half measure it's barely a 1/16th measure. Could you elaborate on this potential scenario please? What were you envisioning? Dissolution of a relationship. Abusive partner. Financial or family crisis. |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on Jun 27, 2022 15:35:58 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on this potential scenario please? What were you envisioning? Sure, again this is a long shot and only my thinking here 1. I meant becoming a major buyer of their PRODUCT, not the company. That would be egregious government overreach. I should've framed it better. 2. I think this would be EXTREMELY popular with a lot of young people. Currently, Biden's approval numbers with Gen Z/ Young people has been dropping so fast some polls show as much as 25-30% drop since his inauguration. Most young people have a sh*t ton of sex. Whether that be in college, from meet ups at bars, Tinder and other dating apps, etc. It is becoming a cultural norm to have a lot more casual hook ups. The amount of woman that would appreciate free Plan B, that is distributed by college medical staff, anonymously, would be outstanding. A lot of woman either can't afford it, don't want their parents to know, don't have a good form of transportation to a pharmacy, etc. This would also prevent a lot of future abortions because, I believe, because it would stop the gap between of uncertainty not being sure or and actually being pregnant. It is a stressful period that doesn't need to be there, for both the men who are stressed about it as well. Not sure the condom worked? Wanna make sure everything is okay? It's just another line of defense woman have against an unwanted pregnancy. I believe the same for standard birth control, although I know that needs a prescription and will be harder to make "free". This would be popular, IMO. Just my thoughts on that I TOTALLY understand what you mean now! I don't disagree with either of your points, although I have no idea how much sex the kids are having these days.  |
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Post by AmeriCanVBfan on Jun 27, 2022 15:37:10 GMT -5
Could you elaborate on this potential scenario please? What were you envisioning? Dissolution of a relationship. Abusive partner. Financial or family crisis. Thank you for making that clearer for me. |
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 27, 2022 15:56:02 GMT -5
I understand your juvenile attempts at humor and avoiding actual conversation but if you were to stop with the inflammatory posts you might be more persuasive. Something to think about. sorry, you are a liar and disingenuous. You have inflamed manuy over a long period of time. and calling names is your trademark and your hatred of America and Christianity is sick, so you need to stop and apologize for all the stupid things you have said. It’s fun to watch “hoolie light” take his little swings. You get em, scooter! You do understand hoolie, you aren’t fooling anyone. |
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Post by valleyvolley1 on Jun 27, 2022 15:57:34 GMT -5
sorry, you are a liar and disingenuous. You have inflamed manuy over a long period of time. and calling names is your trademark and your hatred of America and Christianity is sick, so you need to stop and apologize for all the stupid things you have said. It’s fun to watch “hoolie light” take his little swings. You get em, scooter! You do understand hoolie, you aren’t fooling anyone. you arent foolinganyone either, likinglittle boys is a bad hing except on here where you have support. |
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moody
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Post by moody on Jun 27, 2022 16:00:34 GMT -5
It’s fun to watch “hoolie light” take his little swings. You get em, scooter! You do understand hoolie, you aren’t fooling anyone. you arent foolinganyone either, likinglittle boys is a bad hing except on here where you have support. What a strange accusation, hoolie. Why would I have a problem with young boys? |
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bluepenquin
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Post by bluepenquin on Jun 27, 2022 16:31:18 GMT -5
2. Just because RvW should be repealed doesn't mean abortion should be banned. 3. The modern anti-abortion movement traces to Jerry Falwell in the mid-1970s after his failure to sustain segregated schools in Virginia for whites only (including what is now Liberty University). Falwell was able to refill his church's coffers with money because of this issue as well as create 'the Moral Majority', so there wasn't really morality at the beginning. It was a money grab from a racist. 4a. Abortions in Israel are paid for by the government. 4b. Islamic nations permit abortion in cases of the mom's endangerment and incest. It's interesting that Islamists are less fundamentalist here than evangelicals. This decision doesn't ban abortions Margaret Sanger wanted abortions for Eugenics - does this make all those supporting abortions racist? The current right to life movement has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell or segregation. It isn't even an evangelical issue - anyone that values human life can be opposed to abortion. People in the right to life movement consider themselves to be similar to the abolitionist. Just about every pro-life person I know supports abortion for the life of the mother. The US has generally had more favorable abortion laws than most development countries in the world. What will come out of much of the US (California, New York, etc...) will be some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. But hey - let us protest and have violence anyway. |
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moody
Banned
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Post by moody on Jun 27, 2022 16:35:06 GMT -5
2. Just because RvW should be repealed doesn't mean abortion should be banned. 3. The modern anti-abortion movement traces to Jerry Falwell in the mid-1970s after his failure to sustain segregated schools in Virginia for whites only (including what is now Liberty University). Falwell was able to refill his church's coffers with money because of this issue as well as create 'the Moral Majority', so there wasn't really morality at the beginning. It was a money grab from a racist. 4a. Abortions in Israel are paid for by the government. 4b. Islamic nations permit abortion in cases of the mom's endangerment and incest. It's interesting that Islamists are less fundamentalist here than evangelicals. This decision doesn't ban abortions Margaret Sanger wanted abortions for Eugenics - does this make all those supporting abortions racist? The current right to life movement has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell or segregation. It isn't even an evangelical issue - anyone that values human life can be opposed to abortion. People in the right to life movement consider themselves to be similar to the abolitionist. Just about every pro-life person I know supports abortion for the life of the mother. The US has generally had more favorable abortion laws than most development countries in the world. What will come out of much of the US (California, New York, etc...) will be some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. But hey - let us protest and have violence anyway. What do you base this fantasy on? The US will have some of the strictest abortion laws in the world. Look at what is already rolling out. This may be the bast chance the Democrats have as states roll out thei anti women laws. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 27, 2022 17:11:56 GMT -5
2. Just because RvW should be repealed doesn't mean abortion should be banned. 3. The modern anti-abortion movement traces to Jerry Falwell in the mid-1970s after his failure to sustain segregated schools in Virginia for whites only (including what is now Liberty University). Falwell was able to refill his church's coffers with money because of this issue as well as create 'the Moral Majority', so there wasn't really morality at the beginning. It was a money grab from a racist. 4a. Abortions in Israel are paid for by the government. 4b. Islamic nations permit abortion in cases of the mom's endangerment and incest. It's interesting that Islamists are less fundamentalist here than evangelicals. This decision doesn't ban abortions Margaret Sanger wanted abortions for Eugenics - does this make all those supporting abortions racist? The current right to life movement has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell or segregation. It isn't even an evangelical issue - anyone that values human life can be opposed to abortion. People in the right to life movement consider themselves to be similar to the abolitionist. Just about every pro-life person I know supports abortion for the life of the mother. The US has generally had more favorable abortion laws than most development countries in the world. What will come out of much of the US (California, New York, etc...) will be some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. But hey - let us protest and have violence anyway. If you are going to say Sanger is relevant, you can't then wave away Falwell, y'know? In addition, your commentary on Sanger is wrong and conflates abortion and birth control. Falwell is absolutely important. In terms of modern anti-abortion movement, the marketing of it as 'pro-life' goes directly to Falwell and the need for money. You may not like it, you should not be comfortable with it, but it is an accurate statement. |
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Post by volleyguy on Jun 27, 2022 17:45:03 GMT -5
Lighten up, Levchuk. What is wrong with you? why don't you lighten up and stop being a airhead leftist parrot? You have a very limited vocabulary. I had to dumb it down for you. |
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Post by valleyvolley1 on Jun 27, 2022 17:54:03 GMT -5
why don't you lighten up and stop being a airhead leftist parrot? You have a very limited vocabulary. I had to dumb it down for you. are you this big of an @$$%*!* in public also? How is my vocabulary limited? It is better than yours and being a mental midget like yourself is nothing to be proud of. |
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Post by valleyvolley1 on Jun 27, 2022 17:55:15 GMT -5
This decision doesn't ban abortions Margaret Sanger wanted abortions for Eugenics - does this make all those supporting abortions racist? The current right to life movement has nothing to do with Jerry Falwell or segregation. It isn't even an evangelical issue - anyone that values human life can be opposed to abortion. People in the right to life movement consider themselves to be similar to the abolitionist. Just about every pro-life person I know supports abortion for the life of the mother. The US has generally had more favorable abortion laws than most development countries in the world. What will come out of much of the US (California, New York, etc...) will be some of the most liberal abortion laws in the world. But hey - let us protest and have violence anyway. If you are going to say Sanger is relevant, you can't then wave away Falwell, y'know? In addition, your commentary on Sanger is wrong and conflates abortion and birth control. Falwell is absolutely important. In terms of modern anti-abortion movement, the marketing of it as 'pro-life' goes directly to Falwell and the need for money. You may not like it, you should not be comfortable with it, but it is an accurate statement. no, it is an idiotic statement. Why be arrogant about something when you are mentally limited? |
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