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Post by hipsterfilth on Aug 28, 2022 9:52:09 GMT -5
I just did some research (AKA watched way too many matches the last few days!), and I think I've finally cracked the code on what the R1's have been told to watch for / call. And, honestly, there seems to be some legitimate criteria for a throw call, which is truly all I've ever wanted.
1) Wrist - they are watching for a wrist snap that is counter to the natural direction of the ball. Not sure how else to word that, but if you "steer" the ball with your wrist, it seems to be getting called. I guess this makes sense, as it gives a huge advantage to the hitter and is almost impossible to defend.
2) Contact point - if your approach brings you too far in front of the set, and you bring the ball from behind you, that's gonna get called a throw.
That said - no idea how, with this criteria, every single setter dump isn't also a throw... but perhaps they have different standards for second and third contact?
Thoughts?
Honestly, I'm OK with the power tip as long as there are criteria on how it can be used. That way teams can plan for it defensively. When the hitter is trapped, the power tip is an easy way to get out of a bad situation, but if you can read a hitter, hopefully you can plan defensively... was a little surprised how many times last night OSU didn't read that the TX hitters were trapped. Credit to TX for bettering a lot of balls, but at some point you gotta question why those plays aren't being made when it appears to be the only outlet TX has.
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Post by mervynpumpkinhead on Aug 28, 2022 9:53:52 GMT -5
I know a lot of coaches would like to see the power tip out of the game.
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Post by hipsterfilth on Aug 28, 2022 9:56:24 GMT -5
I know a lot of coaches would like to see the power tip out of the game. I personally feel that it denigrates the game and is counter to the athleticism that is required to better a ball on third contact, but it doesn't seem to be going anywhere, so the next step is to regulate how its called IMO. Oy vey. |
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Post by madden55 on Aug 28, 2022 9:57:08 GMT -5
I despise it. It’s so easy to score with
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Post by slxpress on Aug 28, 2022 9:58:40 GMT -5
I just did some research (AKA watched way too many matches the last few days!), and I think I've finally cracked the code on what the R1's have been told to watch for / call. And, honestly, there seems to be some legitimate criteria for a throw call, which is truly all I've ever wanted. 1) Wrist - they are watching for a wrist snap that is counter to the natural direction of the ball. Not sure how else to word that, but if you "steer" the ball with your wrist, it seems to be getting called. I guess this makes sense, as it gives a huge advantage to the hitter and is almost impossible to defend. 2) Contact point - if your approach brings you too far in front of the set, and you bring the ball from behind you, that's gonna get called a throw. That said - no idea how, with this criteria, every single setter dump isn't also a throw... but perhaps they have different standards for second and third contact? Thoughts? Honestly, I'm OK with the power tip as long as there are criteria on how it can be used. That way teams can plan for it defensively. When the hitter is trapped, the power tip is an easy way to get out of a bad situation, but if you can read a hitter, hopefully you can plan defensively... was a little surprised how many times last night OSU didn't read that the TX hitters were trapped. Credit to TX for bettering a lot of balls, but at some point you gotta question why those plays aren't being made when it appears to be the only outlet TX has. Where were you seeing throws called? I'm not disputing you. Just curious. And there's no doubt in my mind setters have a different standard. Maybe they should. But they certainly do. Also, my main point about last year's call against Eggleston in the regional final still stands. Not a single throw call against her versus Ohio State (she was called for a double contact, though). She'll go through the season without one called, mark my words, with a couple of matches against a B1G team in their gym, and another one at home. |
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Post by hipsterfilth on Aug 28, 2022 10:04:18 GMT -5
I just did some research (AKA watched way too many matches the last few days!), and I think I've finally cracked the code on what the R1's have been told to watch for / call. And, honestly, there seems to be some legitimate criteria for a throw call, which is truly all I've ever wanted. 1) Wrist - they are watching for a wrist snap that is counter to the natural direction of the ball. Not sure how else to word that, but if you "steer" the ball with your wrist, it seems to be getting called. I guess this makes sense, as it gives a huge advantage to the hitter and is almost impossible to defend. 2) Contact point - if your approach brings you too far in front of the set, and you bring the ball from behind you, that's gonna get called a throw. That said - no idea how, with this criteria, every single setter dump isn't also a throw... but perhaps they have different standards for second and third contact? Thoughts? Honestly, I'm OK with the power tip as long as there are criteria on how it can be used. That way teams can plan for it defensively. When the hitter is trapped, the power tip is an easy way to get out of a bad situation, but if you can read a hitter, hopefully you can plan defensively... was a little surprised how many times last night OSU didn't read that the TX hitters were trapped. Credit to TX for bettering a lot of balls, but at some point you gotta question why those plays aren't being made when it appears to be the only outlet TX has. Where were you seeing throws called? I'm not disputing you. Just curious. And there's no doubt in my mind setters have a different standard. Maybe they should. But they certainly do. Also, my main point about last year's call against Eggleston in the regional final still stands. Not a single throw call against her versus Ohio State (she was called for a double contact, though). She'll go through the season without one called, mark my words, with a couple of matches against a B1G team in their gym, and another one at home. LSU / Rice had 2 called which was lowkey one of the best matches of the szn so far. |
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Post by volleyball303 on Aug 28, 2022 10:15:02 GMT -5
Doesn’t part of the criteria have to do with the follow through?
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Post by vergyltantor on Aug 28, 2022 10:15:09 GMT -5
Where were you seeing throws called? I'm not disputing you. Just curious. And there's no doubt in my mind setters have a different standard. Maybe they should. But they certainly do. Also, my main point about last year's call against Eggleston in the regional final still stands. Not a single throw call against her versus Ohio State (she was called for a double contact, though). She'll go through the season without one called, mark my words, with a couple of matches against a B1G team in their gym, and another one at home. LSU / Rice had 2 called which was lowkey one of the best matches of the szn so far. It was called one time on Whitney Lauenstein from Nebraska. Possibly due to criteria #2. |
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Post by hipsterfilth on Aug 28, 2022 10:17:22 GMT -5
LSU / Rice had 2 called which was lowkey one of the best matches of the szn so far. It was called one time on Whitney Lauenstein from Nebraska. Possibly due to criteria #2. yes! That one plus one on the opposite from LSU brought me to formulate that point. Makes sense that bringing balls from behind you in front of you would happen much more on the RS, and criteria #1 would be more of an OH problem. |
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Post by Brutus Buckeye on Aug 28, 2022 10:27:45 GMT -5
As long as they aren't grabbing/holding onto the ball, I don't see a problem with it. Snaring a ball with an open palm and dunking it over the net without invoking a double contact (bobbling it once in order to gain control) isn't easy to do.
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Post by vollectator on Aug 28, 2022 10:42:31 GMT -5
I just did some research (AKA watched way too many matches the last few days!), and I think I've finally cracked the code on what the R1's have been told to watch for / call. And, honestly, there seems to be some legitimate criteria for a throw call, which is truly all I've ever wanted. 1) Wrist - they are watching for a wrist snap that is counter to the natural direction of the ball. Not sure how else to word that, but if you "steer" the ball with your wrist, it seems to be getting called. I guess this makes sense, as it gives a huge advantage to the hitter and is almost impossible to defend. 2) Contact point - if your approach brings you too far in front of the set, and you bring the ball from behind you, that's gonna get called a throw. That said - no idea how, with this criteria, every single setter dump isn't also a throw... but perhaps they have different standards for second and third contact? Thoughts? Honestly, I'm OK with the power tip as long as there are criteria on how it can be used. That way teams can plan for it defensively. When the hitter is trapped, the power tip is an easy way to get out of a bad situation, but if you can read a hitter, hopefully you can plan defensively... was a little surprised how many times last night OSU didn't read that the TX hitters were trapped. Credit to TX for bettering a lot of balls, but at some point you gotta question why those plays aren't being made when it appears to be the only outlet TX has. Where were you seeing throws called? I'm not disputing you. Just curious. And there's no doubt in my mind setters have a different standard. Maybe they should. But they certainly do. Also, my main point about last year's call against Eggleston in the regional final still stands. Not a single throw call against her versus Ohio State (she was called for a double contact, though). She'll go through the season without one called, mark my words, with a couple of matches against a B1G team in their gym, and another one at home. your issue should be with the throws not having been called if your concern is truly the consistency in reffing. Yet you dwell on one play that was called correctly. When you talk about technical rules from the perspective of a particular team or a particular player, your conclusions tend to be biased. |
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Post by BigTenVball on Aug 28, 2022 10:45:01 GMT -5
I know a lot of coaches would like to see the power tip out of the game. Most coaches are in complete agreement. When their team power tips, it is legal, and when the opponent power tips, it is a throw. Funny part, is that last year, there was a zoom meeting between I think about 14-15 coaches, and they presented various clips of techniques, and power tips were one of them. I don't think there was a SINGLE unanimous vote on any play, and almost all were close to 50/50 in discussion!! Best line came from a D3 coach, who after watching the clip remarked "at my level, that is one hell of a play!" |
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Post by gibbyb1 on Aug 28, 2022 10:48:06 GMT -5
I despise it. It’s so easy to score with Agreed, it’s close to un-defendable |
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Post by slxpress on Aug 28, 2022 10:58:07 GMT -5
Where were you seeing throws called? I'm not disputing you. Just curious. And there's no doubt in my mind setters have a different standard. Maybe they should. But they certainly do. Also, my main point about last year's call against Eggleston in the regional final still stands. Not a single throw call against her versus Ohio State (she was called for a double contact, though). She'll go through the season without one called, mark my words, with a couple of matches against a B1G team in their gym, and another one at home. your issue should be with the throws not having been called if your concern is truly the consistency in reffing. Yet you dwell on one play that was called correctly. When you talk about technical rules from the perspective of a particular team or a particular player, your conclusions tend to be biased. Of course they're biased. I've never said anything different. Call it early so a player has a chance to adjust. That's my issue. If it's never called, the player never has a chance to adjust, and it feels extraordinarily arbitrary. If it happened to someone other than a Texas player in a regional final, there's no doubt my emotions would be much more muted. If present at all. |
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Post by vollectator on Aug 28, 2022 11:10:40 GMT -5
your issue should be with the throws not having been called if your concern is truly the consistency in reffing. Yet you dwell on one play that was called correctly. When you talk about technical rules from the perspective of a particular team or a particular player, your conclusions tend to be biased. Of course they're biased. I've never said anything different. Call it early so a player has a chance to adjust. That's my issue. If it's never called, the player never has a chance to adjust, and it feels extraordinarily arbitrary. If it happened to someone other than a Texas player in a regional final, there's no doubt my emotions would be much more muted. If present at all. eggleston clearly adjusted. You gladly took the 3 or 4 freebies but cry about not getting one that’s not yours. I just don’t follow your logic. How does the adjustment that you insist on any different if one gets called on the first throw vs on the 4th throw, other than the 3 points her team gets that it’s not supposed to? |
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