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Post by oldmanvb on Sept 16, 2023 15:23:38 GMT -5
I agree the decision to leave Raina on the right side as has been described is curious at best. Too many things could go wrong, an overpass on the serve being one of many. I disagree with the decision, but if it had worked we would be talking about how smart it was. I would love to know what the plan was for all of the different situations that could lead to the situation in which we found ourselves. Let Burbage serve so we had a potential attacker in back right or use her out of middle back for a bic? Burbage was at least as effective a hitter Thursday as Terry. Or, use Bianca to serve so we had another setter on the floor, in which case Mosher would just be the left pin hitter in that rotation? Was Barnes in the back row at the time? Barnes has shown good hands, rotate her to back right defense and tell her she is the setter for so long as Terry is front right, again, using Mosher as the left pin hitter? If Tuniaga was front row at the time (I don’t recall and don’t have the energy to watch the video) Mosher hitting against Tuniaga would have been a good option.
I’ve never been a fan of gimmicks which by definition are something not practiced very often.
I also didn’t understand why Brooke was not using a “soft” block against Fields throughout the match. Regardless, that last point was not why we lost the match.
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Post by oldmanvb on Sept 16, 2023 15:25:04 GMT -5
Oh, and stop saying you are not an experienced volleyball mind. You clearly get it, and the game is simply not that complicated.
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Post by oldmanvb on Sept 16, 2023 15:25:04 GMT -5
My final thought. We need to win a 5 set match.
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Post by exit237a on Sept 16, 2023 15:33:51 GMT -5
Oh, and stop saying you are not an experienced volleyball mind. You clearly get it, and the game is simply not that complicated. Thanks for that, oldman- will do.
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 16, 2023 16:44:40 GMT -5
I would not have set Raina back row on that last point when Fields is blocking and you have Tuniaga front row. I went back that night to watch that last USC point because it looked strange in the moment. Why was Raina being set on the right side when we're serving? I drafted you a message on my phone but VT crashed before I could send it and I didn't want to type it all out again- it was really late. Here's the gist of what I wrote. Raina wasn't in the back row. Out of the timeout, Tamas had arranged a special blocking scheme where Raina, who was positioned in right front stayed there after we served, presumably to put up a bigger block on Fields than Brooke. Brooke stayed on the left pin after Pan served. Normally in that serving rotation Raina would bump over to the left as soon as Pan serves with Brooke crossing over immediately to the right pin. The whole idea backfired when Fields sent an overpass back on Pan's serve, leaving Brooke with one attack option, to set Raina OOS on the right side with the big Fields + MB block camped out on the one Illinois attack option. I think you can count on one hand the number of swings Raina has taken from right front this whole season. Raina was stuffed. I'm not an experienced volleyball mind and it's annoying to keep piling on the coaches when we lose but I'm just bummed at how that went. As far as I can tell, the only outcome of that play that would validate us being in that special blocking scheme would be for Raina to have gotten a block, scored a point by blocking Fields. Any outcome other than that would have still left us out of position to transition to offense, with both Raina and Kennedy on the wrong side of the setter. You have the good fortune of serving at 13-14 to push a fifth set to deuce with your best outside hitter and attacking middle blocker able to line up in their natural spots with your lefty-attacking setter positioned such that she's another viable attack option the opposing block has to account for and instead of trusting that lineup you go with some longshot blocking scheme that puts you in an overall worse place to convert and score a point. Am I wrong in how I'm looking at this? It's not like 6'0" tall Brooke Mosher is some blocking liability. It just seems like a giant longshot when you have such good attacking personnel in the front row if you'd left them in their normal spots. Would love some insight on this from folks better versed in volleyball than me. I'm sincerely wanting to understand the thinking if I've misunderstood it. I would have to go back and look at the replay. Looked like Raina took off from behind the 10 ft line which is why I thought it was a back row attack. Part of being a good setter is recognizing match ups and where you have an advantage. I’ll take our OH’s hitting over Tuniaga vs the well formed blk of USC which included Fields.
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 16, 2023 16:58:54 GMT -5
The last two matches the team played so much better than before. Both of those matches were winable.
1.) Raina does Raina things. I still think she tips too much. Go up and take a rip. Hit high hands! Her shoulder is gonna need a lot of rest after the season is over. Teams target her in serve receive. She just needs more reps
2.) Collins - quietly the best all around player: blks, kills, digs, serve. She needs to step up and lead. Get loud girl!
3.) Nunge - Rounding into form. Hitting more confidently than last year. Has finally stopped running under the ball.
4.) Burbage - so inconsistent. Needs to get a little stank attitude and believe in herself. We have seen what she can do, now let’s have that every match!
5.) Barnes - give her the L jersey.
6.) Barry - lets her DS, she needs more reps to develop her VB IQ on where to play defense. More reps in practice.
7. Bohm - has looked better in the last two matches. 1st time playing so she gets cut a little slack. Her 3-1 attackes were money the last two matches. Starting to close the block more too. Needs to work on her fitness which will help improve her lateral movement, quickness and jump height.
8.) Mosher - last year she played totally fearless. This year she seems a little timid. I wanna see last years Brooks running the offense. Take charge. And girl, 2nd ball is always yours. Get your track shoes on.
9) Pan - decent serve the last few matches but far too many errors passing. Not a lot of digs either. We don’t have any other options so we are stuck.
10) Im confused on how we set up on defense. Are we playing positional or rotational? Specifically our right back when our bloaclers are giving so much line. When playing back row defense, hard angle, if you can’t see the ball when they hit it, you are in the wrong spot.
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 16, 2023 18:48:00 GMT -5
Also not to sound the alarm but we have 4 OH’s on the roster. None signed in the next two incoming recruiting classes. Nunge is for sure gone next year and Raina is questionable. Leaves us with 2 OH who have never played a rep of D1 ball. One has questionable health status so who knows. Only hope is the transfer portal and we haven’t had much luck.
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Post by oldnewbie on Sept 16, 2023 18:48:16 GMT -5
I went back that night to watch that last USC point because it looked strange in the moment. Why was Raina being set on the right side when we're serving? I drafted you a message on my phone but VT crashed before I could send it and I didn't want to type it all out again- it was really late. Here's the gist of what I wrote. Raina wasn't in the back row. Out of the timeout, Tamas had arranged a special blocking scheme where Raina, who was positioned in right front stayed there after we served, presumably to put up a bigger block on Fields than Brooke. Brooke stayed on the left pin after Pan served. Normally in that serving rotation Raina would bump over to the left as soon as Pan serves with Brooke crossing over immediately to the right pin. The whole idea backfired when Fields sent an overpass back on Pan's serve, leaving Brooke with one attack option, to set Raina OOS on the right side with the big Fields + MB block camped out on the one Illinois attack option. I think you can count on one hand the number of swings Raina has taken from right front this whole season. Raina was stuffed. I'm not an experienced volleyball mind and it's annoying to keep piling on the coaches when we lose but I'm just bummed at how that went. As far as I can tell, the only outcome of that play that would validate us being in that special blocking scheme would be for Raina to have gotten a block, scored a point by blocking Fields. Any outcome other than that would have still left us out of position to transition to offense, with both Raina and Kennedy on the wrong side of the setter. You have the good fortune of serving at 13-14 to push a fifth set to deuce with your best outside hitter and attacking middle blocker able to line up in their natural spots with your lefty-attacking setter positioned such that she's another viable attack option the opposing block has to account for and instead of trusting that lineup you go with some longshot blocking scheme that puts you in an overall worse place to convert and score a point. Am I wrong in how I'm looking at this? It's not like 6'0" tall Brooke Mosher is some blocking liability. It just seems like a giant longshot when you have such good attacking personnel in the front row if you'd left them in their normal spots. Would love some insight on this from folks better versed in volleyball than me. I'm sincerely wanting to understand the thinking if I've misunderstood it. I would have to go back and look at the replay. Looked like Raina took off from behind the 10 ft line which is why I thought it was a back row attack. Part of being a good setter is recognizing match ups and where you have an advantage. I’ll take our OH’s hitting over Tuniaga vs the well formed blk of USC which included Fields. Terry was right front and faked like she was going to the left on the serve but then broke right instead. It was absolutely the right decision. The alternative was Skylar Fields with one swing against Mosher for the match. Playing for the overpass instead of trying to contain Fields initial attack would not have been particularly smart. On top of that, Tuaniga was not in the front row, so on the left Terry would have been hitting against a set, well-formed block consisting of two middles (Ariail and Williams) at the end of 5 long sets when she was slowing down some, not against the 5'9" setter.
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Post by oldnewbie on Sept 16, 2023 18:51:33 GMT -5
Also not to sound the alarm but we have 4 OH’s on the roster. None signed in the next two incoming recruiting classes. Nunge is for sure gone next year and Raina is questionable. Leaves us with 2 OH who have never played a rep of D1 ball. One has questionable health status so who knows. Only hope is the transfer portal and we haven’t had much luck. There is still one more year of every top 4th year senior finishing their initial 4 year scholarship with an option of playing a 5th somewhere else. No need to panic just yet. That will change dramatically the year after next.
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Post by oldmanvb on Sept 16, 2023 20:34:37 GMT -5
I don’t have a real problem with the decision to keep Terry blocking on the right side in the situation as it existed. I do wish something was done to give attack options. With Mosher capable of hitting on the left side options were available.
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Post by exit237a on Sept 17, 2023 1:44:14 GMT -5
I would have to go back and look at the replay. Looked like Raina took off from behind the 10 ft line which is why I thought it was a back row attack. Part of being a good setter is recognizing match ups and where you have an advantage. I’ll take our OH’s hitting over Tuniaga vs the well formed blk of USC which included Fields. Terry was right front and faked like she was going to the left on the serve but then broke right instead. It was absolutely the right decision. The alternative was Skylar Fields with one swing against Mosher for the match. Playing for the overpass instead of trying to contain Fields initial attack would not have been particularly smart. On top of that, Tuaniga was not in the front row, so on the left Terry would have been hitting against a set, well-formed block consisting of two middles (Ariail and Williams) at the end of 5 long sets when she was slowing down some, not against the 5'9" setter. Play that scenario out though. If Raina doesn’t end the play with the singular immediate block outcome, then how does that setup put them in a more advantageous position to score? Let’s say she gets a good block touch and that gives Illinois a chance to transition. Raina’s probably still stuck on the right side where she’s been set like three times this season hitting against the huge Fields block and she remains the only real attack threat. Is a back middle quick to Kennedy an option? Does Kennedy move all the way to the left pin? Are you relying on Brooke to be able to attack on second contact? How is any of that a better offensive setup than the usual three person attack option when they’re in their normal positions? Raina swinging from the left side, Kennedy positioned such that she could run a slide or hit in front of Brooke, and Brooke being an attack option, all of which keeps the opposing block honest. Any result other than Raina stuff blocking Fields on their first ball means they’d have to score some other way. Being out of offensive position makes that a lot harder. And come on, no one’s suggesting that you can predict or “play for” an overpass- characterizing what I said that way is dishonest.
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Post by oldmanvb on Sept 17, 2023 11:43:41 GMT -5
I agree with exit237a. The trouble with the play is the fact it is a checker move, one play ahead, when a chess move dealing with two or three situations after the first play was required. It doesn’t address what to do in the event the result of the play is anything other than a stuff block on Fields.
As I understand, Pan served, Lilly was libero in the middle back rotation, Barnes was in the left back rotation. Mosher was left front in the rotation. I think I recall as a general rule Lilly goes left from the middle, Pan goes middle and Barnes goes to the right side, although I am not certain of that as a general rule. If you are going to leave Mosher blocking left front, use a back row setter and use Mosher as a left pin hitter. Barnes hands are good enough to send a set to Mosher on the left. Or bring Bianca in for Lilly to set, although bringing May in for Lilly would have told USC Terry was going to remain on the right side. Collins was middle front, May or Barnes could have set middle or left, away from the Fields block. Not ideal, and demonstrates the problems with the underlying strategy, but at least it deals with any situation in which play continues after no stuff block on Fields.
Have we beaten this horse to death?
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Post by liberovb10 on Sept 17, 2023 12:58:09 GMT -5
I agree with exit237a. The trouble with the play is the fact it is a checker move, one play ahead, when a chess move dealing with two or three situations after the first play was required. It doesn’t address what to do in the event the result of the play is anything other than a stuff block on Fields. As I understand, Pan served, Lilly was libero in the middle back rotation, Barnes was in the left back rotation. Mosher was left front in the rotation. I think I recall as a general rule Lilly goes left from the middle, Pan goes middle and Barnes goes to the right side, although I am not certain of that as a general rule. If you are going to leave Mosher blocking left front, use a back row setter and use Mosher as a left pin hitter. Barnes hands are good enough to send a set to Mosher on the left. Or bring Bianca in for Lilly to set, although bringing May in for Lilly would have told USC Terry was going to remain on the right side. Collins was middle front, May or Barnes could have set middle or left, away from the Fields block. Not ideal, and demonstrates the problems with the underlying strategy, but at least it deals with any situation in which play continues after no stuff block on Fields. Have we beaten this horse to death? haha probably have - but i think this is why we need to keep Burbage or Nunge in for 6 rotations. We need more offensive weapons in so teams don’t camp out on Terry. No matter where Terry was lining up (left or right pin) the middle was going to cheat in her direction…which was evident in that last point. Before Mosher even touched the ball, USC’s middle was already starting her footwork to close the seam with Fields. Pan’s contribution to the back row isn’t better or worse than what either KB or JN can contribute. Have Barry/Barnes split serve receive duties and the pins to take any short balls then a Terry/Libero split when she’s in the back row. That’s my only argument for giving Barnes the libero jersey again, she needs to anchor and direct our back row - Barry isn’t there just yet.
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Post by ilalum92 on Sept 17, 2023 15:15:45 GMT -5
Also not to sound the alarm but we have 4 OH’s on the roster. None signed in the next two incoming recruiting classes. Nunge is for sure gone next year and Raina is questionable. Leaves us with 2 OH who have never played a rep of D1 ball. One has questionable health status so who knows. Only hope is the transfer portal and we haven’t had much luck. There is still one more year of every top 4th year senior finishing their initial 4 year scholarship with an option of playing a 5th somewhere else. No need to panic just yet. That will change dramatically the year after next. You must not follow ILL volleyball or this thread very much. We don’t know if Raina come back, that leaves 2 OH with no experience. We have not been lucky in the transfer portal either. And we need to check the scholies we have left. We absolutely should be worried. We were in such a predicament we had to ask a former player to comeback who hadn’t been playing in months. Had Nunge not been available, we would have really been screwed.
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Post by oldmanvb on Sept 17, 2023 18:53:45 GMT -5
Inpaign, you had early information about Nunge returning. We are about six weeks from NLI signing. Are we OK with our commitments? Any 2024 surprises or at least the possibility of 2024 surprises?
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