NIL

[vbfan999]

Hi everyone I don’t know much about NIL so I was just wondering do student athletes (obviously specifically women college volleyball players) make more off of NIL than they would/could playing pro? And at the top percent of players HOW much are they making?

[slxpress]

Jan 21, 2023 4:55:09 GMT -5 vbfan999 said:

Hi everyone I don’t know much about NIL so I was just wondering do student athletes (obviously specifically women college volleyball players) make more off of NIL than they would/could playing pro? And at the top percent of players HOW much are they making?

The money isn't THAT good, yet. 

Eggleston made around $60k for her Champions endorsement, which had to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest NIL deal in volleyball last year. She had some other NIL endorsements, but I don't know what the amounts were. I guarantee she's making substantially more after signing her first professional contract. 

Mostly NIL in women's volleyball right now is a harbinger of what's to come, not what exists right now. The big money isn't there yet, even with collectives throwing their weight around. We're talking very low 5 figures with some rare exceptions. 

The top players in the US can earn 6 figures internationally, and even the group below that can still earn mid 5 figure salaries. NIL for volleyball is not in a position to compete with that dollar for dollar just yet. 

[bigredtruck]

On the other hand, like anything new, there might actually be more money being thrown around now as the ‘advertisers’ compete for ‘celebrities’. As they find they’re not getting the return they had hoped for, their marketing dollars shift elsewhere and things settle down to reality. Of course this is naively assuming that NIL is being used as intended, as opposed to primarily being a ‘legal?’ way for boosters to influence recruiting. That dark side of the business will continue to thrive and increase, as long as someone plays that game and anyone else says “if we can’t beat them, we have to join them”!

But c’mon $13 million for a football player who has done nothing yet and has not developed any N, I, or L recognition??? Modeling, for example, is a full time job, and I’m pretty sure they don’t start out with those kind of paychecks. That’s an awful lot of Tweets for somebody’s car dealership! Bryce Young (AL QB) did a national Dr Pepper ad to earn his $1 million but that was after winning the Heisman.

Other than a radio commercial here or there, most opportunities, especially for non-revenue sports like volleyball, seem to be social media. How on earth are collectives going to keep up the charade of actually doing something to earn this money?

Obviously, FL and their $13 mill deal - which fell through- couldn’t do it!!

[Brutus Buckeye]

Seems like the owner of a women's fashion line could save a lot of money by signing boatloads of local female athletes to NIL deals instead of hiring full time professional models.

Looking at you, Les Wexner.

[blastingsand]

Isn't the gymnast from lsu making a seven figures with nil? Marketability and looks are important but if someone can do a sport like gymnastics, shouldn't volleyball should have something around that range?

[geddyleeridesagain]

Jan 21, 2023 10:44:58 GMT -5 blastingsand said:

Isn't the gymnast from lsu making a seven figures with nil? Marketability and looks are important but if someone can do a sport like gymnastics, shouldn't volleyball should have something around that range?

Well, she’s not making bank because of her floor routine. The Cavinder twins aren’t signing major endorsement deals because of their assist-to-turnover ratio. If you get my drift.

[stevehorn]

Jan 21, 2023 10:44:58 GMT -5 blastingsand said:

Isn't the gymnast from lsu making a seven figures with nil? Marketability and looks are important but if someone can do a sport like gymnastics, shouldn't volleyball should have something around that range?

The LSU gymnast already had a huge social media following prior to NIL.   Don't know of any volleyball athletes that are even close to her level of followers.

[SayonaraTachikara]

Jan 21, 2023 12:14:58 GMT -5 stevehorn said:

Jan 21, 2023 10:44:58 GMT -5 blastingsand said:

Isn't the gymnast from lsu making a seven figures with nil? Marketability and looks are important but if someone can do a sport like gymnastics, shouldn't volleyball should have something around that range?

The LSU gymnast already had a huge social media following prior to NIL.   Don't know of any volleyball athletes that are even close to her level of followers.

She made over $2.5 Million last year. 

[staticb]

Jan 21, 2023 5:44:36 GMT -5 slxpress said:

Jan 21, 2023 4:55:09 GMT -5 vbfan999 said:

The money isn't THAT good, yet. 

Eggleston made around $60k for her Champions endorsement, which had to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest NIL deal in volleyball last year. She had some other NIL endorsements, but I don't know what the amounts were. I guarantee she's making substantially more after signing her first professional contract. 

I'd argue that the money for professional volleyball isn't that good yet ether.   Unless you're a top tier player it might be barely livable.  A lot of players are playing or the experience and/or love of the game.

There was a thought Lexi Sun decided to come back for her last year because her NIL opportunities was greater than what she could make overseas.

So I'd say it's possible but we likely aren't talking about large sums of money either way.

[slxpress]

Jan 21, 2023 13:10:43 GMT -5 staticb said:

Jan 21, 2023 5:44:36 GMT -5 slxpress said:

The money isn't THAT good, yet. 

Eggleston made around $60k for her Champions endorsement, which had to be one of the biggest, if not the biggest NIL deal in volleyball last year. She had some other NIL endorsements, but I don't know what the amounts were. I guarantee she's making substantially more after signing her first professional contract. 

I'd argue that the money for professional volleyball isn't that good yet ether.   Unless you're a top tier player it might be barely livable.  A lot of players are playing or the experience and/or love of the game.

There was a thought Lexi Sun decided to come back for her last year because her NIL opportunities was greater than what she could make overseas.

So I'd say it's possible but we likely aren't talking about large sums of money either way.

There's also the case that sometimes it's not going to be a player's talent that helps increase their NIL profile. I don't know that Lexi Sun is the best example, but I do feel like she is an example of someone whose looks helped her with NIL opportunities along with her talent level. There will be other, better examples in the future. People were commenting on Louisville's Alexa Hendricks high follower count for a player who doesn't make a HUGE impact on the team, although she can be an important supporting player. Turns out she's extremely attractive with bright red hair and blue eyes that practically glow in pictures, and she doesn't mind posting bikini pics. 

A better example are the twins in women's basketball that transferred to Miami last offseason for a huge NIL payday. They're good players, but that's not the reason they're getting paid mid 6 digits per year in NIL money.

The numbers are never going to be as high as men's basketball and football. The amounts of money involved in those sports at every level dwarfs volleyball. But I will say the NIL money for volleyball from collectives is going to go much higher than it is right now eventually. And who knows? Maybe we'll get a commercially successful professional women's volleyball league in the states. I know there are a lot of people rooting for it on this board. 

[bbg95]

Jan 21, 2023 11:24:06 GMT -5 geddyleeridesagain said:

Jan 21, 2023 10:44:58 GMT -5 blastingsand said:

Isn't the gymnast from lsu making a seven figures with nil? Marketability and looks are important but if someone can do a sport like gymnastics, shouldn't volleyball should have something around that range?

Well, she’s not making bank because of her floor routine. The Cavinder twins aren’t signing major endorsement deals because of their assist-to-turnover ratio. If you get my drift.

The amusing thing is that these are examples who actually are profiting off their name, image and likeness (i.e. what NIL is ostensibly about) rather than pay for play. Anyway, to address the original question, it definitely seems like there are players in other sports (Drew Timme comes to mind--he's a great college player with an unclear pro future) who stand to make more in NIL money than they might make professionally. Even in volleyball, there are some NIL deals for players who have no pro prospects to speak of, so that plus any scholarship money is more than the zero or close to it that they could make in the pros.

[coachdavid]

I'm surprised I havent seen some of the bigger names doing "signing tours" where they set up a desk at a convention center during a qualifier and sign pictures for $20 a pop. I know all my girls would stand in line for hours for an Eggleston signature.

[staticb]

Jan 22, 2023 15:57:07 GMT -5 coachdavid said:

I'm surprised I havent seen some of the bigger names doing "signing tours" where they set up a desk at a convention center during a qualifier and sign pictures for $20 a pop. I know all my girls would stand in line for hours for an Eggleston signature.

They’ve done this in Nebraska.

But mostly in volleyball, now they can charge for camp appearances or host one of their own.

[ay2013]

Jan 21, 2023 7:30:03 GMT -5 bigredtruck said:

On the other hand, like anything new, there might actually be more money being thrown around now as the ‘advertisers’ compete for ‘celebrities’. As they find they’re not getting the return they had hoped for, their marketing dollars shift elsewhere and things settle down to reality. Of course this is naively assuming that NIL is being used as intended, as opposed to primarily being a ‘legal?’ way for boosters to influence recruiting. That dark side of the business will continue to thrive and increase, as long as someone plays that game and anyone else says “if we can’t beat them, we have to join them”!

But c’mon $13 million for a football player who has done nothing yet and has not developed any N, I, or L recognition??? Modeling, for example, is a full time job, and I’m pretty sure they don’t start out with those kind of paychecks. That’s an awful lot of Tweets for somebody’s car dealership! Bryce Young (AL QB) did a national Dr Pepper ad to earn his $1 million but that was after winning the Heisman.

Other than a radio commercial here or there, most opportunities, especially for non-revenue sports like volleyball, seem to be social media. How on earth are collectives going to keep up the charade of actually doing something to earn this money?

Obviously, FL and their $13 mill deal - which fell through- couldn’t do it!!

It's pretty clear that a lot of NIL is purely a "legal" way for boosters to influence recruiting-

In 2021, after Texas had another disappointing season and Steven Sarkisian identified the offensive line as a "key recruiting area", a "non-profit" was announced by six university alumni and supporters to give a total of up to 800k, every year, to the offensive lineman on scholarship at Texas. The announcement was made a week before early signing day, and Texas subsequently signed three top 5 national offensive line players, in the same year the program went 5-7 and failed to make a bowl game. www.chron.com/sports/college/article/University-Texas-Austin-offensive-linemen-16680150.php


what's the "name, image, and likeness" value for paying walk-ons (players most have never heard of and probably never will) tuition at BYU? www.si.com/college/2021/08/12/byu-football-nil-deal-walk-on-tuition-built-bar

Certainly there is little to no return on investment for giving these kinds of athletes all of this money. Even for some of the actual stars of the games, some of their NIL deals are ridiculously dumb. Does the local Lamborghini dealership in Austin really think that the people that can afford their $250k+ cars actually care that some 20 year old that likely won't graduate from the school and will jump ship to the NFL at the right opportunity (which is exactly what Robinson did, even foregoing playing in this years bowl game, which Texas ended up losing) is riding them to the games? www.si.com/extra-mustard/2022/05/05/texas-running-back-bijan-robinson-nil-deal-lamborghini-austin

Players like Logan Eggleston are probably the poster child for what NIL should be. While I think that the relatively small volleyball media world does a disservice among players and programs nationally by picking and choosing which players to focus on (and, make no mistake about it, Eggleston surely gets outsized media coverage, even when factoring in her talent), Her largest NIL deal, reportedly from Champions sports at 60k, actually is directly relevant to the sport, and, given Eggelston's popularity coupled with the actual product, probably will be an actual return on investment.

[volleyguy]

Jan 22, 2023 18:09:20 GMT -5 ay2013 said:

Jan 21, 2023 7:30:03 GMT -5 bigredtruck said:

On the other hand, like anything new, there might actually be more money being thrown around now as the ‘advertisers’ compete for ‘celebrities’. As they find they’re not getting the return they had hoped for, their marketing dollars shift elsewhere and things settle down to reality. Of course this is naively assuming that NIL is being used as intended, as opposed to primarily being a ‘legal?’ way for boosters to influence recruiting. That dark side of the business will continue to thrive and increase, as long as someone plays that game and anyone else says “if we can’t beat them, we have to join them”!

But c’mon $13 million for a football player who has done nothing yet and has not developed any N, I, or L recognition??? Modeling, for example, is a full time job, and I’m pretty sure they don’t start out with those kind of paychecks. That’s an awful lot of Tweets for somebody’s car dealership! Bryce Young (AL QB) did a national Dr Pepper ad to earn his $1 million but that was after winning the Heisman.

Other than a radio commercial here or there, most opportunities, especially for non-revenue sports like volleyball, seem to be social media. How on earth are collectives going to keep up the charade of actually doing something to earn this money?

Obviously, FL and their $13 mill deal - which fell through- couldn’t do it!!

It's pretty clear that a lot of NIL is purely a "legal" way for boosters to influence recruiting-

In 2021, after Texas had another disappointing season and Steven Sarkisian identified the offensive line as a "key recruiting area", a "non-profit" was announced by six university alumni and supporters to give a total of up to 800k, every year, to the offensive lineman on scholarship at Texas. The announcement was made a week before early signing day, and Texas subsequently signed three top 5 national offensive line players, in the same year the program went 5-7 and failed to make a bowl game. www.chron.com/sports/college/article/University-Texas-Austin-offensive-linemen-16680150.php


what's the "name, image, and likeness" value for paying walk-ons (players most have never heard of and probably never will) tuition at BYU? www.si.com/college/2021/08/12/byu-football-nil-deal-walk-on-tuition-built-bar

Certainly there is little to no return on investment for giving these kinds of athletes all of this money. Even for some of the actual starts of the games, some of their NIL deals are ridiculously dumb. Does the local Lamborghini dealership in Austin really think that the people that can afford their $250k+ cars actually care that some 20 year old that likely won't graduate from the school and will jump ship to the NFL at the right opportunity (which is exactly what Robinson did, even foregoing playing in this years bowl game, which Texas ended up losing) is riding them to the games? www.si.com/extra-mustard/2022/05/05/texas-running-back-bijan-robinson-nil-deal-lamborghini-austin

Players like Logan Eggleston are probably the poster child for what NIL should be. While I think that the relatively small volleyball media world does a disservice among players and programs nationally by picking and choosing which players to focus on (and, make no mistake about it, Eggleston surely gets outsized media coverage, even when factoring in her talent), Her largest NIL deal, reportedly from Champions sports at 60k, actually is directly relevant to the sport, and, given Eggelston's popularity coupled with the actual product, probably will be an actual return on investment.

Return on Investment and/or tax deductibility is starting to drive the NIL landscape. "Non-profit" NIL entities are starting to pop up because deep-pocket donors are realizing the ROI isn't real, and they at least want the ability to deduct NIL expenses from their tax liability as a charitable donation (which they can do if it goes directly to the University.) It's not clear, however, if a non-profit NIL will actually withstand IRS scrutiny. The IRS regulations which apply to a legitimate non-profit NIL are extremely narrow, and if the majority of the expenditures from such a non-profit NIL entity go to college athletes, it's likely that the IRS will disallow the tax deductibility. Because they're relatively new, it's still too soon to know how the IRS will treat these, but after a few audits, it will start to become pretty clear.